615 replies to this topic

[ghost1e]

Sol Lunari, on 19 February 2021 - 12:09 PM, said:

Snub PPC's. They seem a ton too heavy for what they are. Of all the mechs I own, I only use it on one and that's entirely because of center torso mount and pairing with the SRM6. It has too much heat, too short of range, too long of a cooldown and too much tonage to warrant using it in almost all circumstances.

I'd advise NOT changing any of the slots/tonnages for weapons, as that would invalidate a lot of stock loadouts.

imo values like duration, velocity, damage, cooldown and heat are enough to decently balance everything out.

[VixNix]

Brauer, on 19 February 2021 - 01:12 PM, said:

A mech with a tag should also be running a probe, so one ecm mech shouldn't be shutting a mech down as one probe cancels one ecm.

I run tag, probe and targeting computer, the ecm mech closes to less than 90m and shuts down my ability to lock on them or anyone else for that matter

[Itsacon]

Paradoxbound, on 19 February 2021 - 02:37 PM, said:

Fix AMS so that it doesn't fire through solid objects, it is an exploit and a cheat and makes no sense. I play both LRM boats and AMS builds. Feel free to modify the AMS rules to compensate. Increased range and more damage to missiles if necessary.

Yes, this is definitely a bug that needs fixing! It can fire, but it shouldn't hit.

AMS should use the same hit detection mechanism as other weapons of a similar type: MGs for standard AMS, lasers for LAMS.

[ghost1e]

Itsacon, on 19 February 2021 - 02:54 PM, said:

Yes, this is definitely a bug that needs fixing! It can fire, but it shouldn't hit.

AMS should use the same hit detection mechanism as other weapons of a similar type: MGs for standard AMS, lasers for LAMS.

well, those hit detections are both the same, hitscan right where you aim...

[The6thMessenger]

TheUltimateGhost, on 19 February 2021 - 02:48 PM, said:

I'd advise NOT changing any of the slots/tonnages for weapons, as that would invalidate a lot of stock loadouts.

imo values like duration, velocity, damage, cooldown and heat are enough to decently balance everything out.

The LB20X for the IS needs it though. It's not powerful like HGR, why the standard engine? It also can't fit it in the arms, something like the KGC-005 has. Unless PGI is willing to crit-split, I think the simplest way to make LB20X fit is merely reduced crit.

KursedVixen, on 19 February 2021 - 02:47 PM, said:

Ce Er medium laser: Raise damage back up to 7 so it's not the same as the Er small heavy.

I don't see the problem of similar damage values. The lasers can still be differentiated by range, weight, tonnage, duration, and heat value, and we can derive our uses from those.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 February 2021 - 03:10 PM.

[KursedVixen]

The6thMessenger, on 19 February 2021 - 03:01 PM, said:

The LB20X for the IS needs it though. It's not powerful like HGR, why the standard engine? It also can't fit it in the arms, something like the KGC-005 has.



I don't see the problem of similar damage values. The lasers can still be differentiated by range, weight, tonnage, duration, and heat value, and we can derive our uses from those.

clan mediums use to do 7 damage.

[FupDup]

KursedVixen, on 19 February 2021 - 03:09 PM, said:

clan mediums use to do 7 damage.

And they don't anymore because it was too powerful. You don't get to have a 1-ton Large Laser.

[The6thMessenger]

KursedVixen, on 19 February 2021 - 03:09 PM, said:

clan mediums use to do 7 damage.

I know, i was there. I was also there when Clan MPL does 8 damage, and I was a strong supporter of it doing 7 damage, with Clan Pulses being generally a colder weapon.

[Brauer]

Paradoxbound, on 19 February 2021 - 02:37 PM, said:

Fix AMS so that it doesn't fire through solid objects, it is an exploit and a cheat and makes no sense. I play both LRM boats and AMS builds. Feel free to modify the AMS rules to compensate. Increased range and more damage to missiles if necessary.

Ah yes, describing a game mechanic as an exploit and a cheat, very reasonable.

[FupDup]

The6thMessenger, on 19 February 2021 - 03:13 PM, said:

I know, i was there. I was also there when Clan MPL does 8 damage, and I was a strong supporter of it doing 7 damage, with Clan Pulses being generally a colder weapon.

Do you 'member when the Clan LPL did 13 damage and had a max range of 1200 meters?

Pepperidge Farm remembers. Many wubs were had during those days.

[Brauer]

VixNix, on 19 February 2021 - 02:53 PM, said:

I run tag, probe and targeting computer, the ecm mech closes to less than 90m and shuts down my ability to lock on them or anyone else for that matter

Sounds like your probe was critted out or you had more than one ECM mech near you. Doesn't sound like you are accurately describing the situation in any case. There isn't really much reason to put a TC on a lock-on mech BTW.

[Trek Keel]

One thing that always bothered me was logic behind the gauss variations and their respective ammo per tone. Looking at standard physics Force(F)*Constant(C)=1/2*Mass(M)*Velocity(V)^2 with a constant to spit out damage values you will find something doenst check out (and yes I know its a game so wont necessarily follow real world mechanics). If you use the standard gauss as the base line to find the constant (13,333.3) the expected damage for the other two are way off as show below. Realistically the heavy gauss would fire the same size slug but at a higher velocity than the gauss to do more damage

Today's values:
Ammo/tone, Projectile speed, Game Damage, Expected Damage
Light Gauss: 25/tone -- 2000 -- 8 -- 6
Gauss: 10/tone -- 2000 -- 15 -- 15
Heavy Gauss: 5/tone -- 1500 -- 25 -- 16.875

Gausses don't fit in to just any build compared other weapons due to the slots, tones and they even behavior. Increasing the ammo per tone would help fit other utilities light jump jets or targeting computers. Following the logic above with tweaks to ammo and velocity would have impacts to the damage as well. See below.

New values:
Ammo/tone, Projectile speed, New Damage,
Light Gauss: 25/tone (+0) -- 2000 -- 9 (+1)
Gauss: 15/tone (+5) -- 2000 -- 15 (+0)
Heavy Gauss: 10/tone (+5) -- 2110 (+610) -- 25 (+0)

Ideally I would like to see light gauss reduced to 10 tones as well to make it easier to fit into more mechs.


side note:
Targeting computers dont do much at the moment reducing the weight of all variant by half would give more incentive.

Edited by Neogear, 19 February 2021 - 06:17 PM.

[Mycroft000]

I'm on board with making improvements to all Clan Small lasers of all flavors. I'd like to see my 12 ERSL Nova Prime return to being a viable loadout again.

[crazytimes]

If I understand this correctly- the company with 100% of the actual data is relying on peoples feelings, people who have 0% of the actual data, to argue about what weapons they don't like?

[FupDup]

crazytimes, on 19 February 2021 - 03:45 PM, said:

If I understand this correctly- the company with 100% of the actual data is relying on peoples feelings, people who have 0% of the actual data, to argue about what weapons they don't like?

Data can only tell you if a weapon is weak or powerful. It won't tell you why it's weak or powerful, or how to buff/nerf it. There is a certain qualitative element to balancing games that the Spreadsheetwarrior approach can't account for. The spreadsheets are merely a tool in the process.

Also, based on this game's history of balancing, I'd rather have them take some community input than do their own thing like they always have. The trick is knowing which stuff to filter out and which stuff to take more seriously.

Edited by FupDup, 19 February 2021 - 03:51 PM.

[Curccu]

Sample Text, on 19 February 2021 - 09:11 AM, said:

ATMs - no minimum range

I thought this was balance pass not how to make one of the best weapons in the game stupid OP?

[Blake Miles]

Some of the light mechs are simply too damn powerful. While they are fun (for those versed in them) for the most part they are entirely too sturdy. AND why can't an assault simply squash them. Ok, the assault gets some leg damage from punting one but it sure would caution the Piranhas from crawling around the legs and blowing out my back. Thus giving the assault a fighting chance to shoot them as they have to back away to fire their weapons.

LRMs and LRMing is again rearing it's ugly head. With some on-line talent recommending this as a way to tier up, nubes (and others) are constantly asking for target ,locks and if the rest don't comply, the rest of the team is at a great disadvantage. Plus most, not all, DO NOT SHARE armor, again causing team/unit to be penalized. Camping is beginning to be a real issue with LRMers as well as the PC and Gauss gang. NERF this and make confronting the enemy as opposed to running away from them more attractive (more cbills, etc.)

Stop worrying about the dang bolt-ons. Spend time on the darn gameplay. Make the maps NASCAR proof.....PLEASE. I am begging you.

Ohhh and as a fun note...how about a back viewing camera. Make it something on the skill tree or something like the Seismic Sensor. Its the 31st century for gosh sakes...

[KursedVixen]

Curccu, on 19 February 2021 - 03:52 PM, said:

I thought this was balance pass not how to make one of the best weapons in the game stupid OP?

personally i would lower the minmium to 90 like lrms but that's just me or give us 3 types of atm all with their own ranges.

Blakemiles, on 19 February 2021 - 04:05 PM, said:

Some of the light mechs are simply too damn powerful. While they are fun (for those versed in them) for the most part they are entirely too sturdy. AND why can't an assault simply squash them. Ok, the assault gets some leg damage from punting one but it sure would caution the Piranhas from crawling around the legs and blowing out my back. Thus giving the assault a fighting chance to shoot them as they have to back away to fire their weapons.

LRMs and LRMing is again rearing it's ugly head. With some on-line talent recommending this as a way to tier up, nubes (and others) are constantly asking for target ,locks and if the rest don't comply, the rest of the team is at a great disadvantage. Plus most, not all, DO NOT SHARE armor, again causing team/unit to be penalized. Camping is beginning to be a real issue with LRMers as well as the PC and Gauss gang. NERF this and make confronting the enemy as opposed to running away from them more attractive (more cbills, etc.)

Stop worrying about the dang bolt-ons. Spend time on the darn gameplay. Make the maps NASCAR proof.....PLEASE. I am begging you.

Ohhh and as a fun note...how about a back viewing camera. Make it something on the skill tree or something like the Seismic Sensor. Its the 31st century for gosh sakes...

one of those usless consoles might work as a rear view camera. you'd think the neurohelmet would give a virtual 360 view especially on clan mechs. i mean the f-35 is suppose to have something like that in present day.

Edited by KursedVixen, 19 February 2021 - 04:09 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Curccu, on 19 February 2021 - 03:52 PM, said:

I thought this was balance pass not how to make one of the best weapons in the game stupid OP?

If it comes with reduction of damage to around 2.4/2.0/1.6 damage, would be balanced and I would prefer it that way.

ATMs should have been the flexible weapon system that BT meant it to be, but there's no ammo switching. The HE ammo instead comes with increased ammunition capacity and minimum range, while the rest of the ammunition have the downsides that is unfit for their use instead.

Blakemiles, on 19 February 2021 - 04:05 PM, said:

LRMs and LRMing is again rearing it's ugly head. With some on-line talent recommending this as a way to tier up, nubes (and others) are constantly asking for target ,locks and if the rest don't comply, the rest of the team is at a great disadvantage. Plus most, not all, DO NOT SHARE armor, again causing team/unit to be penalized. Camping is beginning to be a real issue with LRMers as well as the PC and Gauss gang. NERF this and make confronting the enemy as opposed to running away from them more attractive (more cbills, etc.)

LRMs are actually rather fine, at least when you're getting your own locks. IMHO, they have never been in any better spot right now due to the dual-arc system.

But yeah, the distinction of IDF needs to be clearer. That's why I advocate for simply restricting IDF angle or NARC-TAG, maybe even allow spotters to hold and guide the volleys for the launcher. It puts more emphasis to NARC and TAG.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 February 2021 - 04:46 PM.

[Johny Rocket]

None, stop messing with stuff.

I mean unless you are actually going to give Rac5s 5 points per shell but otherwise stop messing up the game trying to balance it.

Edited by Johny Rocket, 19 February 2021 - 05:00 PM.