615 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

I’d like to see 3LGauss fired at once

[Y E O N N E]

Gas Guzzler, on 20 February 2021 - 09:59 PM, said:

I’d like to see 3LGauss fired at once

Then it would always have to be balanced around firing 3.

Instead, decoupling it from PPC family would provide it more flexibility. Twin LGauss and an ERPPC is effectively the same as 3x LGauss.

[The6thMessenger]

Miss Greene, on 20 February 2021 - 10:03 PM, said:

Then it would always have to be balanced around firing 3.

Instead, decoupling it from PPC family would provide it more flexibility. Twin LGauss and an ERPPC is effectively the same as 3x LGauss.

Hmm, can we just get back the Gauss-PPC though? Not the 2x Gauss + 2x PPC, but maybe 2x Gauss + PPC or 2x PPC + Gauss.

[NIGHTRAITH]

Hi all. Just a opinion on the topic. Take it with a grain of salt. Not disrespecting anyone just my thoughts on the game. I played TT and RPG BattleTech most of my life form 1990 till today. I don't know if there can be a balance found for this online game. It takes BattleTech TT and MechWarrior pencil and paper and merges them. Which works well in TT,RPG Dice roll games. Not so much in real time action video game. Just for a few examples. For TT you have the set weapon damage, heat, range, weight, and critical slots. All I see here is everyone wants to change all of the above values because they feel a weapon should do more damage then it would do in TT or less heat then in TT. But the MWO game has already changed these values for the live action game multiple times. To me some things still feel a little broke. I understand it is hard to make this a multiplayer game for everyone to enjoy. And obviously there has to be something done. But a few Weapons in this game I feel really will never match the TT values although I myself wish the game would somehow match the TT more closely.
Enter double heat sinks. In TT IS is 3 crits 2 heat sinked. Clan 2 crits 2 heat sinked. I tell you when I first started I was surprised when they only did 1.5 heat sinked. Took me a while to find out about ghost heat too. Which not in TT so there was another surprise. I really hope that this thread will help the game and the players get a better balance. Just don't know if changing all these weapon stats is really the answer.

Edited by NIGHTRAITH, 20 February 2021 - 11:36 PM.

[-Skyrider-]

I'm mainly in favor of just about all of the gulag balances but the only things I would change are, make standard clan auto cannons single shot, try testing clan erppc's without splash with 13 damage, either reduce the cool down on clan streaks, and or revert to their old method of tracking, and unlink lrm 5's from the rest of the lrm's ghost heat group

[tangles 253]

All the weapons seem mostly alright to me, there are a few outliers as always but the game as a whole, due to the complexity and what a user can modify, is very tricky to balance.

The smaller lasers and lower srm/lrm counts seem a little under done, but seeing how many some mechs can carry I personally would be leaving them alone. the piranha small laser/mg gun is a terrifying thing as you can barely register a hit on the little horror, same as a lot of small extremely fast lights. maybe look at how a 20+/- ton mech can seemingly race through so many hits that would floor anything heavier

The Clan A/c's should be a one shell weapon, there is just about no reason to bring one instead of a c/uac

There's not much different/no variety of clam (yeah i did) weapons

Thunderbolt missiles for I.S?

Flamers appear to heat the user up significantly more than receiver

Some of the A/C M/G R/AC fire blinds the mech on the receiving end, could just be me


The poptart meta wasn't fun, the insta-gib poking/facecheck isn't the way and the Lrm-ageddon wasn't enjoyable. not to say brawling is the way though.
The last few games ive played seemed to have mix, poking/lrming etc till it descended into an all-out brawl and it was good fun. right up until you have 4 mechs trying to nail one small fast light of raw aggression and adamatium will. that pilots mech just doesn't seem to take/register as much damage as appears to hit it.. see what i did there?!

[zudukai]

Navid A1, on 18 February 2021 - 06:20 PM, said:

Here is the link to weapon change suggestions that were brought up by the "gulag" (a group of comp, casual, veteran and new MWO players)

Weapon changes: https://i.imgur.com/7p8TIrU.png






vs Live stats: https://i.imgur.com/rEh9bJ2.png




In accordance with the above weapon changes these modifications to mech quirks would be required:
https://www.dropbox....11_30.docx?dl=0




Mech agility increase across the board, according to this proposal:
https://docs.google....#gid=1508912275



Also... Jump Jets:

• Current system:

• Solution:

MASC:

• Reduce MASC fill-rate by 50% (from 0.09 to 0.045), leading to double active time
  
• Reduce accel/decel boost to x1.5 (instead of x 2)
  
• Reduce reticle shake and spread to 33% of current amount (-66%reduction)
  
• Increase redline threshold to 85 (from 75)

Full proposal including the above mentioned weapon changes and other aspects, like mech mobility and Jump jets: https://www.dropbox....AG_v2.pptx?dl=0


Will update this post if something changes.

yes. quoting to support.

[KursedVixen]

The health points for small and medium lasers don't make sense to me IS small and medium lasers have 7.5 health but the Clan ones have only 5 despite being the same size???? i think, again that all lasers probes and targeting computers of the same size should have the same health.... the only outliar i see here for this system is the IS Large laser which is larger in slot size than the Clan laser so yeah needs a little more health than the clan Large because it's gonna be a little easier to crit.

I see unexplanable disparities like this all over weapons/ components probes ecm and targeting computers... if they are the SAME slot size they should have the same health and Even when they are bigger they get a MASSIVe boost to Hp on the IS size (look at the heavy large laser or any weapon) i think that's kinda unfair clan already got their damage nerfed to lasers why do we need to pay in durability as well?


Also i agree that clan uac's should fire single slugs per tap... that or all Uac's should fire burst.

even the clan Ac's fire in burst except the 2. (that makes no sense)

Edited by KursedVixen, 21 February 2021 - 02:29 AM.

[Alreech]

KursedVixen, on 21 February 2021 - 02:15 AM, said:

The health points for small and medium lasers don't make sense to me IS small and medium lasers have 7.5 health but the Clan ones have only 5 despite being the same size???? i think, again that all lasers probes and targeting computers of the same size should have the same health.... the only outliar i see here for this system is the IS Large laser which is larger in slot size than the Clan laser so yeah needs a little more health than the clan Large because it's gonna be a little easier to crit.

I see unexplanable disparities like this all over weapons/ components probes ecm and targeting computers... if they are the SAME slot size they should have the same health and Even when they are bigger they get a MASSIVe boost to Hp on the IS size (look at the heavy large laser or any weapon) i think that's kinda unfair clan already got their damage nerfed to lasers why do we need to pay in durability as well?

Clan Weapons have better range and do more alpha damage.
Also clan mechs can mount more weapons & other equipment because Endo Steel, Ferror Fibrous & Heat Sinks need less slots than their IS counterparts.

If PGI would use the same slot numbers for IS Double Heat Sinks, IS Ferror Fibrous & IS Endos Steel they could use the same HPs for components.

[KursedVixen]

Alreech, on 21 February 2021 - 02:35 AM, said:

Clan Weapons have better range and do more alpha damage.
Also clan mechs can mount more weapons & other equipment because Endo Steel, Ferror Fibrous & Heat Sinks need less slots than their IS counterparts.

If PGI would use the same slot numbers for IS Double Heat Sinks, IS Ferror Fibrous & IS Endos Steel they could use the same HPs for components.

it's what happens when you blast yourself back to the pre-industrial age and I said for weapons and components not armor! not structure. It makes no sense tatically for a society based on a warrior culture to develop less durable items than the ones they started with. And i also said ONly for items that have the same slot size... and components do not include armor and structure.

double heat sinks appear to be the only component with a decent IS/clan Health ratio with the IS double heat sinks having 2.5 points per slot and the clan having 2 per slot something small like this is fine..



Also for the most part clan mechs have fixed equipment and cannot change armor or structure type further limiting options, I'd rather keep that system it's fine other than giving us the ability to remove and add non-fixed jump jets like it was when clans first relased.

Edited by KursedVixen, 21 February 2021 - 03:15 AM.

[xAndy199]

I'll sort of be the devil's advocate here on some points

KursedVixen, on 21 February 2021 - 02:15 AM, said:

The health points for small and medium lasers don't make sense to me IS small and medium lasers have 7.5 health but the Clan ones have only 5 despite being the same size???? i think, again that all lasers probes and targeting computers of the same size should have the same health.... the only outliar i see here for this system is the IS Large laser which is larger in slot size than the Clan laser so yeah needs a little more health than the clan Large because it's gonna be a little easier to crit.

I see unexplanable disparities like this all over weapons/ components probes ecm and targeting computers... if they are the SAME slot size they should have the same health and Even when they are bigger they get a MASSIVe boost to Hp on the IS size (look at the heavy large laser or any weapon) i think that's kinda unfair clan already got their damage nerfed to lasers why do we need to pay in durability as well?


Also i agree that clan uac's should fire single slugs per tap... that or all Uac's should fire burst.

even the clan Ac's fire in burst except the 2. (that makes no sense)

Ton-for-ton, Clan weapons are significantly better performing than IS weapons - in the current setup, a Clan ER Small Laser is almost a one-to-one replacement for the IS Medium Laser. You can easily outperform an IS Large Laser with two Clan ER Medium Lasers and have tonnage to spare for double heatsinks. Clan Large Lasers of all kinds dominate on the only long-range map in the game (Polar Highlands).
There needs to be an inherent downside, gimping Clan chassis with fixed slot hogs and bad base parameters can't make up for everything.

-Skyrider-, on 21 February 2021 - 12:24 AM, said:

I'm mainly in favor of just about all of the gulag balances but the only things I would change are, make standard clan auto cannons single shot, try testing clan erppc's without splash with 13 damage, either reduce the cool down on clan streaks, and or revert to their old method of tracking, and unlink lrm 5's from the rest of the lrm's ghost heat group

Again, devil's advocate.
Clan Autocannons are lighter across the board than their IS counterparts. Clan UACs seem to jam on me more often, but that's just a feeling, numerically they are supposedly the same. With Clan DHS, I don't feel any heat penalty for the lighter Clan Autocannons. They are currently "balanced" by fixed slots in Clan Mechs which don't permit you to mount larger ACs in some Clan Mechs even if the tonnage is there. Instead of punishing the Clans on their chassis, I would prefer to keep them multi-shot. It's a subtle nerf and it adds "faction flavor". In the wider BattleTech universe, the distinction always goes "IS makes even bigger Gauss, Clan makes multi-shot Gauss"

Lehv, on 20 February 2021 - 08:41 PM, said:

I think a vote for the most underpowered weapons would be helpful in sorting through which weapons are the worst. You can also look at useage statistics. This assumes that bad weapons are used less.

Light gauss and regular gauss need a damage buff. They don't do much damage and are outclassed by the AC10, UAC10 and RAC5 which work at similar ranges for a similar tonnage. I never use light machine gun, lb2xac, lb5xac, light ppc and snub nose ppc, rocket launchers, flamers, srm2, ssrm2, lrm5, and any of the medium range missiles because they all feel weak. they need a damage per second per ton boost in some form or other (cooldown tonnage or just damage improvements). I think all lasers are great, with the exception of ER Large and Laser AMS is a little too hot, considering you need at least 2 or 3 of them to be worth a darn. Also tag and light tag should reduce lock time, reduce missile spread and allow lock onto stealthed mechs. There isn't much benefit to them now.

This may be off topic, but while we are talking about balance, I don't understand why three different engines can be the same in every way but their speed. For example std engine 160, 165 and 170 are all 7 tons, 6 slots, 6 heat sinks, but have varying speeds. Why would you ever take the slow ones? There is no benefit to make up for the lost speed on the std 160 and 165. Just eliminate the bad engines that you should never take.

And referring to the latter two quotes simultaneously, LRM5s are fine.
They work very well on Mechs with extra missile hardpoints. The 6x LRM5 Catapult is a menace. Personally, I run a brawler Mad Dog with 4x LRM5 as a supplementary kit. 4x Clan LRM5 have a shorter "stream time" than 1x Clan LRM20, being able to alphastrike more than 4 of them would, in my opinion, break Clan missile balance.

[Natural Predator]

Daeron Katz, on 18 February 2021 - 05:29 PM, said:

Greetings MechWarriors!

The March Patch will include the first of our upcoming Weapons Balance passes. We're looking for your feedback on which weapons currently need the most attention.

While we are working closely with organized segments of the community, like the Gulag Discord group, we are also open to your feedback.

We are looking for specific and actionable items. Please avoid spamming opinions in this thread such as "get rid of LRMs" as it's non-constructive. Weapons balance will be an ongoing process, with multiple passes, and ongoing reviews and balance throughout the year as necessary.

Thank you!
The MechWarrior Online Team

Biggest change I would like to see is a reduction of effectiveness I’m lurm spamming. And a reduction in effectiveness in ac2 boating. It doesn’t have to be a massive nerf bat but someone should not be able to sit at 1100 meters and fire continuously for massive damage. I’d suggest increasing heat for both so they must cool down every so often. Or alternatively setting a ghost heat threshold lower. I’d like to see some of these career ac2 spammers have to get down and dirty in close.

[Alreech]

KursedVixen, on 21 February 2021 - 03:04 AM, said:

it's what happens when you blast yourself back to the pre-industrial age and I said for weapons and components not armor! not structure. It makes no sense tatically for a society based on a warrior culture to develop less durable items than the ones they started with.

Clan fight duells, not total wars.

It's total sensible to built less durable weapons with more firepower - a tactical advantage - instead of using more durable weapons.
If you win the trial by killing the opponent with more firepower it's doesnt matter how much of your weapons have to be replaced.

Also no good MWO player takes that "clan warrior culture" serious.
Clan Weapons & equipment have many advantages like less slots & better range.
Making them as durable as the IS stuff just removes the last traces of "Clan vs IS" balance.

Not that this balance was ever working in Quickplay with it's mixed tech teams.

Quote

Also for the most part clan mechs have fixed equipment and cannot change armor or structure type further limiting options, I'd rather keep that system it's fine other than giving us the ability to remove and add non-fixed jump jets like it was when clans first relased.

Just use IIC Mechs instead Omni Mechs.

[D A T A]

Navid A1, on 18 February 2021 - 06:20 PM, said:

Here is the link to weapon change suggestions that were brought up by the "gulag" (a group of comp, casual, veteran and new MWO players)

Weapon changes: https://i.imgur.com/7p8TIrU.png






vs Live stats: https://i.imgur.com/rEh9bJ2.png




In accordance with the above weapon changes these modifications to mech quirks would be required:
https://www.dropbox....11_30.docx?dl=0




Mech agility increase across the board, according to this proposal:
https://docs.google....#gid=1508912275



Also... Jump Jets:

• Current system:

• Solution:

MASC:

• Reduce MASC fill-rate by 50% (from 0.09 to 0.045), leading to double active time
  
• Reduce accel/decel boost to x1.5 (instead of x 2)
  
• Reduce reticle shake and spread to 33% of current amount (-66%reduction)
  
• Increase redline threshold to 85 (from 75)

Full proposal including the above mentioned weapon changes and other aspects, like mech mobility and Jump jets: https://www.dropbox....AG_v2.pptx?dl=0



Will update this post if something changes.

Full 150% support to this one, this is your last chance to do things right, for once, try to listen to those who have an idea of what they are saying.


The best thing you can do is accept the whole thing as it is, without touching anything.

if for some wierd reasons you want to limit the success of this patch, and grab just a small success rather than a gigantic success, limit to:

-AC20/UAC20 buffs
-SPL buffs
-ERLL ERML HLL LPL GAUSS buffs

(both clan and IS)

Edited by D A T A, 21 February 2021 - 05:27 AM.

[xAndy199]

Trashtier, on 21 February 2021 - 04:21 AM, said:

Biggest change I would like to see is a reduction of effectiveness I’m lurm spamming. And a reduction in effectiveness in ac2 boating. It doesn’t have to be a massive nerf bat but someone should not be able to sit at 1100 meters and fire continuously for massive damage. I’d suggest increasing heat for both so they must cool down every so often. Or alternatively setting a ghost heat threshold lower. I’d like to see some of these career ac2 spammers have to get down and dirty in close.

I'm fundamentally not against your sentiment, *but*
you can't force long range boats to come up close against brawler builds.
I'd propose a trade:
- hurt long-rangers a bit
- give long-rangers a quality-of-life improvement

The QoL improvements
- for lurms: improvements to Tag/NARC to offset nerfs against naked lurms
- for AC/2, ER PPC, Clan ER Large Lasers: configurable mouse sensitivity for zoom levels

[KursedVixen]

D A T A, on 21 February 2021 - 05:21 AM, said:

Just use IIC Mechs instead Omni Mechs.

Oh yeah i'm gonna limit myself to 5+ mechs...

Alreech, on 21 February 2021 - 04:52 AM, said:

Clan fight duells, not total wars.

It's total sensible to built less durable weapons with more firepower - a tactical advantage - instead of using more durable weapons.
If you win the trial by killing the opponent with more firepower it's doesnt matter how much of your weapons have to be replaced.


Clan Weapons & equipment have many advantages like less slots & better range.
Making them as durable as the IS stuff just removes the last traces of "Clan vs IS" balance.

Not that this balance was ever working in Quickplay with it's mixed tech teams.


Just use IIC Mechs instead Omni Mechs.

don't care about replacing weapons? that's really wasteful and even the clans wanted to reduce waste as much as possible in lore if we had maintaincne and replacment cost in effect that would be a really big problem....
Actually Clan Uac's and lasers have a longer duration which means you have to face the enemy longer....

[VixNix]

Brauer, on 19 February 2021 - 03:16 PM, said:

Sounds like your probe was critted out or you had more than one ECM mech near you. Doesn't sound like you are accurately describing the situation in any case. There isn't really much reason to put a TC on a lock-on mech BTW.

nope, undamaged prior to having my ability to play shut off by broken game mechanics.
very much the same as being the last one alive in an incursion game and cant get a lock because that's the way it's designed.

[RenegadeMaster88]

Make LRM minimum range lower when in Direct fire mode, this should encourage brawling over hiding and the back and spamming.

Fix the heavier JJs.

Streaks are useless IMHO.

SNPPC, PPC , Too hot.

Edited by RenegadeMaster88, 21 February 2021 - 06:04 AM.

[ghost1e]

MechaFox02, on 21 February 2021 - 06:00 AM, said:

I support this one, i love this!! <3

DOOO EEEET!

[Vege]

Navid A1, on 18 February 2021 - 06:20 PM, said:

Here is the link to weapon change suggestions that were brought up by the "gulag" (a group of comp, casual, veteran and new MWO players)

Weapon changes: https://i.imgur.com/7p8TIrU.png






vs Live stats: https://i.imgur.com/rEh9bJ2.png




In accordance with the above weapon changes these modifications to mech quirks would be required:
https://www.dropbox....11_30.docx?dl=0




Mech agility increase across the board, according to this proposal:
https://docs.google....#gid=1508912275



Also... Jump Jets:

• Current system:

• Solution:

MASC:

• Reduce MASC fill-rate by 50% (from 0.09 to 0.045), leading to double active time
  
• Reduce accel/decel boost to x1.5 (instead of x 2)
  
• Reduce reticle shake and spread to 33% of current amount (-66%reduction)
  
• Increase redline threshold to 85 (from 75)

Full proposal including the above mentioned weapon changes and other aspects, like mech mobility and Jump jets: https://www.dropbox....AG_v2.pptx?dl=0


Will update this post if something changes.

Just do this