614 replies to this topic

[MUNTAFIRE2]

Assault mech damage to light mechs legs upon collision +1000% or like 3000%. The assault mech leg is roughly twice the size of a light mech. The stomping force on the light mech leg is not even apparent in battle. This needs to be changed with the weapon being the mech used for collision damage against subject light mechs legs +1000-3000%

[Thermidor]

Lights should never HARD COUNTER assaults. weapons like AC20's, HG, etc should two shot lights. Too often its pointless to play assaults' because 1. Your teammates WILL leave you behind and you cant fight off lights. 2. Weapons that assaults can normally carry dont do enough damage against light mechs. I understand that we dont have mobility, but any kind of damage against a light from assault class weapons should bring lights to their knees. A light pilot should NEVER feel confident to take on an assault mech solo.

Im not spending money on assaults anymore if someone can just gear up some light mech that only costs them 4 Mil and face roll mechs that cost 18 Mil

At a minimum light mechs should get knocked over after being shot with the heaviest weapons and slightly smaller weapons should decrease their speed. In fact why aren't physics of this level not implemented in the game? It would be cool to see ballistics have some form of impact on movement.

[LunaRaven7]

A loose collection of ideas, meant to spur discussion moreso than request direct changes.


With the update to PPCs the sound of the weapon fully "recharging" after firing is now 2 seconds earlier than the weapon actually cycles. It might take some getting used to, but there has been years of conditioning behind that subtle sound.

It's not super easy to differentiate between ATMs and cLRMs in flight.
Having ATMs launch in mini-salvos of 3 (similar to larger IS LRMs firing out of a hardpoint with only 5 missile tubes, but at a faster rate ) would make them easier to spot, while also adding some gameplay flavor.

A color saturation increase for heavy and IS ER lasers would also differentiate them slightly from their respective counterparts, and add a little to the gameplay as well. This could be applied to the PPC versions or ATMs as well

Speed and weight (momentum) could be calculated when calculating collision damage on both parties. It'd be cool if this damage was increased for collisions involving a player's on opposite teams to a point where it is a possible strategy to "step on" smaller mechs

Advanced Zoom is nearly universally panned. The picture-in-picture window could be made a little bigger, which would still maintain the lack of close quarters awareness that it was designed to have.

Flamers are near-universally panned as well. A few ideas to toy around and make them better...
Increase damage, heat given to opponent, and/or range in proportion to the firing mech's current heat.
Ramp up damage/sec the longer a flamer is held on a component
Drastically increase the chance of an ammo explosion when unspent ammo is destroyed by a crit from a flamer.

[Void Angel]

Collisions used to be in the game very early on, but the system... wasn't good. I suspect it would need to be built from the ground up.

As for being able to make the lives of Light 'mechs even harder than they already are... I haven't played regularly in a while now, but I did dust off the game a week or two ago, and nothing I saw led me to believe that Lights are any more overpowered than they've been for pretty much the entirety of the game's history. Unless I missed something major, if you find your Assault 'mech "hard countered" by a Light, it's probably your build, or perhaps a PEBPAC issue - "Problem Exists Between PPC and Chair."

[Thermidor]

Void Angel, on 12 April 2021 - 11:52 PM, said:

Collisions used to be in the game very early on, but the system... wasn't good. I suspect it would need to be built from the ground up.

As for being able to make the lives of Light 'mechs even harder than they already are... I haven't played regularly in a while now, but I did dust off the game a week or two ago, and nothing I saw led me to believe that Lights are any more overpowered than they've been for pretty much the entirety of the game's history. Unless I missed something major, if you find your Assault 'mech "hard countered" by a Light, it's probably your build, or perhaps a PEBPAC issue - "Problem Exists Between PPC and Chair."

Hey look everyone. We have the very first ever "I've never died to a light mech before, have never allowed a light mech to get behind me and kill me, and never had my teammates just take off leaving my slow assault mech behind". Were can i get some of that "git gud"

Just to test my point, I purchased a PIR-1 and melted 3 assaults' and lost very little armor in a single game and then 2 more in the following game. These were T1 and T2 players running grim mech Tier - S builds. That piranha ran me 3.8mil. i wonder how much those Annihlators, direwolfs, and bloodasps cost to build?

[Void Angel]

Actually no. That entire rant is an insecure Straw man that you made up to pretend that if I was wrong, you must be right.

What I actually said was that Lights don't hard-counter Assaults. Lights have been disadvantaged overall since ever, unless there have been some major changes since the last time I playedon the regular. This isn't simply my opinion - this is a verifiable fact based on the global performance of Light chassis as collated by The Isengrim. Your anecdotal performance in two rounds doesn't prove anything beyond a poor grasp of the rules for supporting a claim with evidence.

Maybe I'd take you very slightly seriously if more than 5% of your matches were in Light chassis, but well... To be fair, you don't like Assaults, either, though you play them half again more often than you do Lights. Your own 'mech choices argue against your thesis and your credibility here. Certain Lights can dish out amazing damage, and they can (mostly) hold their own in the hands of a competent pilot, but they're already at the kind of disadvantage you claim they should have, other than being penalized simply for being shot by something big. Many Lights will die from two AC/20 rounds, for example, if you are good enough to put those rounds in the same place - and there are plenty of builds with more than a 20-point pinpoint alpha strike. Even the Wolfhound-2, with its hefty bonus to torso armor, still can't take two 30(ish)-point alphas to its side torsos, and that's the kind of firepower you're looking at from Tier-S Assaults.

Edited by Void Angel, 14 April 2021 - 10:53 PM.

[Wreckreation]

Get in an assault and try to take out some lights. Then come back and let us know which mech's armor holds up in a one on one. Machine guns that peel armor off an assault in less time it takes to peel a banana is unrealistic. Sorry but you are not very convincing.

[Stealthenator]

I would just love to see brawling builds become closer to equally as viable as sniping builds, with the overall meta just being more balanced between brawling and poking.

[Void Angel]

Wreckreation, on 22 April 2021 - 12:38 PM, said:

Get in an assault and try to take out some lights. Then come back and let us know which mech's armor holds up in a one on one. Machine guns that peel armor off an assault in less time it takes to peel a banana is unrealistic. Sorry but you are not very convincing.

Actual data trumps your anecdotal comparisons concerning fruit consumption. Even so, you ought to have noticed that a giant patch has dropped since the post you're responding to. So not only does my argument stand, because your feelings are not numbers, your proposed test is invalid as well.

Maybe a little less snark, and a little more reading comprehension next time.

[Thermidor]

Void Angel, on 23 April 2021 - 11:53 AM, said:

Actual data trumps your anecdotal comparisons concerning fruit consumption. Even so, you ought to have noticed that a giant patch has dropped since the post you're responding to. So not only does my argument stand, because your feelings are not numbers, your proposed test is invalid as well.

Maybe a little less snark, and a little more reading comprehension next time.

I'm not some pro, so I notice the kills I get a bit more. I've died less and killed more in my pir-a than any other mech and i've never killed/solo'd more assault and heavy mechs in a light than any other weight class.

Answer me this: If lights posed such a small threat to assaults, why is it that we always see lights specifically targeting assaults? If what you claim is true (its not) you wouldn't see lights targeting assaults. Maybe you aren't seeing this, but this is what i've been seeing since the game came out. This is what i see in matches on youtube with top-tier players, this is what i see lights pilots recommend all the time.

Also, I love assaults but given the way people play (i.e. teammates rushing and off leaving assaults behind, nascaring like idiots, etc) its very easy to get picked off. You are totally at the mercy of how good your team is and if they maintain cohesion. Now, that isn't a problem exclusive to assaults, but given their lack of mobility, it impacts them way more than any other weight class. Maybe i'm making a case that MGs and Small/micros are too OP and not so much lights, but show me a light mech in the current meta that is not using either MGs or small/micros that melt mechs like its nothing?

And I dont care what some forum elitist says: At equal skill level, an assault mech WILL NEVER out maneuver a light mech. If you can't out maneuver an assault mech and melt its rear armor with relative ease in a light, then perhaps you aren't as good as you are trying to prop yourself up to be.

And im done with this convo.

Edited by Thermidor, 23 April 2021 - 01:39 PM.

[Void Angel]

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. I wasn't trying to make you feel inferior and insecure - I just like facts and numbers, and reason from them whenever I can. As such, I'm not going to accept your personal recollection of the times you "totally saw this one Light just melt some Assault's armor, and..." It doesn't work that way - although your attempts to argue with me do underscore a certain lack of understanding. Lights, for example, do indeed target the least maneuverable enemies. Lights are designed to be maneuverable, and that strength matches up with Assault chassis' weaknesses rather well. But they don't "hard-counter" them. They don't just pull some $W337 N1NJ4 moves and get a free kill. But you want to believe otherwise, because you totally see that in top-level players Youtube highlights. That must mean top-level players agree with you - except those pesky Isengrim whose data I'm using. Light pilots all tell you this - except the one standing in front of you, as it were, telling you that's not quite how it works. You're holding forth with affronted arrogance on the performance of chassis you don't play - and talking down to someone who has specialized in both weight classes in the past.

So I won't try to poison the well with innuendo like I was "some pro," or a "forum elitist." I won't even belabor the point that you are insisting on your bad argument as currently correct after the most massive set of changes in the history of MWO, - it seems facts don't overly inconvenience your opinions. I'll just tell you once again what I've told you from the start: your feelings aren't numbers, and your anecdotal stories do not trump the observable facts.

Edited by Void Angel, 24 April 2021 - 02:17 AM.

[Drake67]

Liking the weapons pass so far. haven't dug in too deep yet.

[Big-G]

Overall, the April patch is a winner in my books...

[Void Angel]

I haven't made the time yet, but I'm very interested to try it out.

This is what they should have done originally with the reverted patch - they get free game design input from people with a ton of in-game experience, and we get a balance patch that's from that different direction. Whatever works, they can incorporate into their balancing theories, and whatever needs adjustment isn't their fault! PGI wins either way. =]

[Martaloc]

Very good so far but need some adjustment:
LB20X AC's on both side ,on the the clans has the same speed as the LB10X version, on the IS side much more broken ,1330 velocity(lol) on the LB20X while the LB10X has 1100 velocity(?) , bring both back to the other 20 cannons,800-900 velocity max

clan ER large laser Reduce the burn time to 1,25 ; much needed help cuz IS got buffed again,

ATM's Cant we do some compromise? Remove the minimum range and in the same time forget the closequarter damage too,
So 0-600 meters 2 dmg/missile, 601-1100 meters 1dmg/missile and clans have one more fun weaponsystem

clan heatgens : buff to them 0,75 same as IS, considering the IS has almost on all mech heatquirks and this was the original value before PGI nerfed the clans into the ground, plus clans are still hotter and have zero heatquirks, yes some omnipod sets have very mediocre -2,5%- -5 % heatquirks but when you remove one setpiece you lost even that, non omnimechs have zero quirks in generall, so yeah my sad Supernova collections.................

[Virtuebane]

nevermind

Edited by Virtuebane, 22 April 2022 - 07:39 PM.

[BigSpam]

I really would like to know why Machine Guns are so OP in this game. I don't believe that in the Battletech universe a light mech with machine guns was ever intended to instill fear in the heart of an Assault mech pilot. This isn't balance. A light mech was never supposed to be the equal of an Assault mech.

Machine guns were anti-infantry weapons, not anti-mech weapons.

Edited by BigSpam, 23 August 2022 - 06:12 PM.

[Void Angel]

Look, two things: First, I have heard this kind of complaint steadily over the last decade; snow or hail, rain or shine - including times when Light 'mechs were clearly inferior to anything else on the battlefield. Like now, arguably - if you want to prove that just spend an evening recording the weight class percentages on the Quickplay button now and then. I will be shocked the day Light 'mechs consistently reach 25% Typically, they fluctuate around 17-18%. And nearly always, when I see Assaults get destroyed by a Light in matches with my own two eyes, it's because the Assault player doesn't maneuver their machine well enough - or just took an entire loadout with a minimum range. They invariably hate to hear that, but it usually is quite true. Lights have been very weak at most points in the game's history, and they're certainly not the equal of an Assault - as anyone who plays Faction Warfare will tell you.

Now secondly, I'm going to be a bit hard-nosed on this point: show me a rule(vintage, because we're not talking about Alpha Strike, or other new versions) that says machine guns don't hurt 'mechs. You won't find any, because they always have hurt Battlemechs. Now, I can show you rules that make them better against infantry, but think a moment- why would the original game developers for tabletop need to do that? The obvious answer is that machine guns kind of suck in BT, so they needed something to make them worth choosing, instead of a Small Laser, because the heat benefit wasn't quite worth the tonnage (outside of crazy Solaris VII builds that took advantage of the arena format.) And that's the same with MWO; so, given that Machine Guns are intended to hurt 'Mechs in tabletop, and that there are no infantry in this game for MGs to deal bonus damage to... What did you expect the developers to do in order to make machine guns more viable? Without buffing the damage, you'd have to give them enhanced critical effects - just like MWO.

All of this demonstrates a very important principle - the rulebooks for the original pen-and-paper games from the 80s are not authoritative for this game. The supplementary rules and sidebar fluff definitely aren't - the different formats mean that things will be different, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Edited by Void Angel, 25 August 2022 - 08:12 AM.

[martian]

BigSpam, on 23 August 2022 - 06:10 PM, said:

I really would like to know why Machine Guns are so OP in this game. I don't believe that in the Battletech universe a light mech with machine guns was ever intended to instill fear in the heart of an Assault mech pilot. This isn't balance. A light mech was never supposed to be the equal of an Assault mech.

Machine guns were anti-infantry weapons, not anti-mech weapons.

I would like to suggest you something: Buy a light 'Mech designed around Machine Guns and run it exclusively for a month.

For example FLE-19 Flea costs just one million C-Bills.

Just start on September 1 and use it until September 30. Then you can come back and report your results and experiences.

[Lanzman]

Machine guns don't do a lot of damage, but if you boat a bunch of them . . . almost no heat, but the drawback is very short range. Hence the Piranha, for example.