27 replies to this topic

[LordBraxton]

I have to say I just reinstalled MWO after a mega hiatus, and my friends and I had a blast last night. We had quit cause of the group queue wait times, but they fixed that finally. Really fun starting at tier 5 again, and crushing in mechs that are useless in Tier 1.


But I gotta get this off my chest. A desperate prayer destined to be forever unheard.

Fix the ****** zeus PGI. Fix all light assaults that got screwed by the desync.

They ******* destroyed my zeus. I spent $120 to get the zeus and I honestly cannot think of a mech that got hit by the nerf bat harder in the history of MWO, especially in relation to the fact that it was never OP. It was only ever solid, and they ruined it and left it ruined for what, 5 years now?

When it came out it had big armor quirks and was probably the smallest humanoid assault by a significant margin. Which was great. It was light on weapons but it was tanky and maneuverable for its weight and a blast to play.

Then, in rapid succession

-they made it gigantic
-destroyed its quirks (tiny structure quirks on a trash barndoor mech?)
-desynced engines to gut the mobility of all the 80tonners who didnt need a nerf at all

Really this is an issue for a ton of great IS mechs. The resize was stupid, and the engine desync was a **** solution to a problem caused by clan XLs, that ended up punishing IS mechs way more.

PGI will never undo the engine desync, but the least they could do is buff the agility and add armor quirks on all the 80 tonners.

My playstyle has always been speed\armor to the sacrifice of firepower, and I literally cannot play that way anymore except on my Executioner, which has been my main ride ever since they ruined my complete collection of fast IS assaults.

I was excited to see the charger in the game, then saw it had far less agility than my gargoyle, and only minor quirks, and somehow it ended up looking like another barn door.

All the desync accomplished was limiting all builds to fitting as much firepower as possible onto a chassis while still keeping it at something comfortable like 70-80kph. There is NO point to cramming huge engines into machines for a few more KPH but no agility. My entire playstyle has been destroyed. My only other hope is to see MASC show up on a ton of IS mechs.

Im gonna go play with my 1/100th scale Zeus and cry now ty for reading

[FupDup]

The Zeus has better agility than most heavy mechs. With the old system it would only have the agility of an average heavy.

What makes it a mediocre robot is hardpoints and hitboxes.

Edited by FupDup, 07 March 2021 - 01:22 PM.

[LordBraxton]

FupDup, on 07 March 2021 - 01:21 PM, said:

The Zeus has better agility than most heavy mechs. With the old system it would only have the agility of an average heavy.

What makes it a mediocre robot is hardpoints and hitboxes.

Compared to how it ran with an xl380 pre desync though? It also carries less firepower than many heavies with engines that big. My point is they killed build variety.

It needs armor quirks like the victor at the very least.

Edited by LordBraxton, 07 March 2021 - 01:27 PM.

[FupDup]

LordBraxton, on 07 March 2021 - 01:25 PM, said:

Compared to how it ran with an xl380 pre desync though?

It needs armor quirks like the victor at the very least.

Pre-desync, any mech that could run at 76.9 kph would match the agility of your Zeus, because speed for the most part was the only factor in how agile your mech was. Any mech faster than you would have more agility. Now, even some heavies that can outrun your Zeus (like the 81 kph Clan heavies) have less agility regardless of how small an engine you pack in your Zeus.

It does definitely need moar armor.

Edited by FupDup, 07 March 2021 - 01:34 PM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Somewhere, a couple of SpiritBears are cuddled up in a corner, crying: "If only we had half the agility a Zeus has"

[LordBraxton]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 07 March 2021 - 01:57 PM, said:

Somewhere, a couple of SpiritBears are cuddled up in a corner, crying: "If only we had half the agility a Zeus has"

100 tonner with clan tech vs 80 tonner IS with few hardpoints is not a good comparison at all.

I main an EXE now and MASC makes it dance, but I cant speak to the hero kodiak. I HATE that masc is locked to hero variants on multiple chassis. Its my favorite equipment and its so rare as it is, and they keep paywalling it.

[FupDup]

LordBraxton, on 07 March 2021 - 04:34 PM, said:

100 tonner with clan tech vs 80 tonner IS with few hardpoints is not a good comparison at all.

I main an EXE now and MASC makes it dance, but I cant speak to the hero kodiak. I HATE that masc is locked to hero variants on multiple chassis. Its my favorite equipment and its so rare as it is, and they keep paywalling it.

I think it's mostly because MASC is just very rare on stock mechs, so the only practical way to get more of it in MWO is to add it to custom mechs (usually heroes).

Maybe something PGI could do is giving MASC to one chosen variant of a chassis across all weight classes like they did for ECM (Commando 2D, Spider 5D, and Atlas DDC aren't supposed to have ECM but they do in MWO).

[PocketYoda]

The zues is an amazing mech movement wise compared to other IS assaults.. Its downfall in my opinion is its lack of armor like many older IS mechs it falls apart crazy fast if it is focused..

I run 3x large lasers 1x medium and 3x srm 4+Artemis

Mobility is quite nice though i was using mine last night to some nice wins.

FupDup, on 07 March 2021 - 04:45 PM, said:

I think it's mostly because MASC is just very rare on stock mechs, so the only practical way to get more of it in MWO is to add it to custom mechs (usually heroes).

Maybe something PGI could do is giving MASC to one chosen variant of a chassis across all weight classes like they did for ECM (Commando 2D, Spider 5D, and Atlas DDC aren't supposed to have ECM but they do in MWO).

If they added ECM to every mech variant wouldn't that mean everyone would only buy those and ignore the rest.. They may as well remove the rest then?

Edited by Samial, 07 March 2021 - 05:32 PM.

[FupDup]

Samial, on 07 March 2021 - 05:27 PM, said:

If they added ECM to every mech variant wouldn't that mean everyone would only buy those and ignore the rest.. They may as well remove the rest then?

I don't want ECM added to every mech variant, just like I don't want MASC added to every mech. I was only suggesting a few mechs get MASC.

[PocketYoda]

FupDup, on 07 March 2021 - 06:41 PM, said:

I don't want ECM added to every mech variant, just like I don't want MASC added to every mech. I was only suggesting a few mechs get MASC.

I see i misunderstood.

[GweNTLeR]

Zeus was hit pretty hard with rescale, but engine desync didn't change much imo. On some builds it even improved gameplay.
At least there are still some good energy/ballistic zeus variants that can shine. However, I don't think I saw any effective missile zeus variants since rescale+desync.

[w0qj]

Behold, the JJ+ECM+MASC Thunderbolt TDR-10SE(S) cometh, and it shall bring forth confusion, mayhem, and destruction in its wake

http://mwomercs.com/stryker

(But seriously, it's only the 2nd mech chassis in MWO with this amazing JJ+ECM+MASC combo, in a Heavy.
The other one was Shadow Cat, which is a Clan Medium).

LordBraxton, on 07 March 2021 - 01:15 PM, said:

I have to say I just reinstalled MWO after a mega hiatus, and my friends and I had a blast last night. ...

...My playstyle has always been speed\armor to the sacrifice of firepower, and I literally cannot play that way anymore except on my Executioner, which has been my main ride ever since they ruined my complete collection of fast IS assaults.

...All the desync accomplished was limiting all builds to fitting as much firepower as possible onto a chassis while still keeping it at something comfortable like 70-80kph. There is NO point to cramming huge engines into machines for a few more KPH but no agility. My entire playstyle has been destroyed. My only other hope is to see MASC show up on a ton of IS mechs.

[Ignatius Audene]

The tbolt is meh. To few hardpoints. 5 Energie one missle (sticking out)i s just not enough.

[Wildstreak]

GweNTLeR, on 07 March 2021 - 09:38 PM, said:

Zeus was hit pretty hard with rescale, but engine desync didn't change much imo. On some builds it even improved gameplay.
At least there are still some good energy/ballistic zeus variants that can shine. However, I don't think I saw any effective missile zeus variants since rescale+desync.

This one Aidan recommended to me works though I modified mine for 4 ERML.

Edited by Wildstreak, 08 March 2021 - 09:54 AM.

[LordBraxton]

w0qj, on 08 March 2021 - 12:54 AM, said:

Behold, the JJ+ECM+MASC Thunderbolt TDR-10SE(S) cometh, and it shall bring forth confusion, mayhem, and destruction in its wake

http://mwomercs.com/stryker

(But seriously, it's only the 2nd mech chassis in MWO with this amazing JJ+ECM+MASC combo, in a Heavy.
The other one was Shadow Cat, which is a Clan Medium).

and once again, it's paywalled. For now anyway.

Eventually ill be happy to throw some MRMs and lasers on it when it comes out for cbills.

[FLG 01]

The Zeus' mobility is fine, great even. It is let down by a combination of bad geometry, not good enough quirks and being plain forgotten.

It needs mild armour quirks on top of existing structure quirks. Firepower is ok already.

[Alex Morgaine]

Honestly what imo should be done with quirks at least as a level set: if stock mech runs less then 50% max armor, heavy structure quirks. If 50-85% max armor, do a mix of armor and structure. 86-100% possible tonnage on armor, straight armor quirks. The idea is lower armored Mechs have heavy structure buffing, maybe even reduced crit rate to keep them in the fight more as glass cannons with big guns. Fully armored Mechs are the tank machines, heavy armor buffs keep them from being critted but when the Armor is gone they don't have reduced crit and need to fall back fast. Middle of the road Mechs get a bit of each, being more balanced then the extremes but not specialized like reduced crits for either major role. Then adjust numbers based on feedback or metrics.
Something like that anyway.

[MechWarrior5782621]

Agreed that the Zeus needs massive armor quirks. And even then, it still wouldn't be as good as the Victor... worse hardpoints, and no jump jets to enable faster turning.

The engine desync was a reaction to the Kodiak which dominated FP for a while, and it was almost a good idea - but it shouldn't have been a complete desync. 50-75% desync would have been perfect. Larger engines should still give some boost to mobility stats.

There are only a handful of mechs that might become overpowered if engine desync were removed, and they could counteract this by simply giving a mobility nerf or a "partial desync" to those specific mechs (Kodiak, MCII, MAD-IIC, maybe Cyclops).

[PocketYoda]

My Zues
ZEU-6T

Still feels really mobile, and you can add higher engines i'm just poor.

Edited by Samial, 08 March 2021 - 11:59 PM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

LordBraxton, on 07 March 2021 - 04:34 PM, said:

100 tonner with clan tech vs 80 tonner IS with few hardpoints is not a good comparison at all.

you're right, it's not fair: there are several okay-to-good builds you can run on a Zeus, from brawling to mid and even longrange, and you can run some strong Zeus'es in S7 if that thing still exists.

-whereas the ONLY build a spiritbear is good for is brawling.
or would be, if the atrocious mobility values after desync didn't ruin it.
the one thing you can still do with it is polishing it up in the garage and hope for better days - which... we all know


now; I'm not saying the zeus couldn't use some love, don't get me wrong.
I'm just stating that there are plenty of mechs that need it more, and PGIs balance team (yeah...) is moving at it's usual pace to fix things*



*where fixing is in general a term for "you send in a problem, we take a couple of years and then come up with a solution that kills your problem - by usually killing the mech/weapon/mechanic/game-mode entirely which had a problem to begin with"