23 replies to this topic

[Sean Lang]

[Nightbird]

If MW5 doesn't do well on the Xbox...

But hey, at least MW5 did well on the epic store, if only because of the exclusivity deal.

Don't mind me, I'm just upset MWO dev funds went to MW5 instead of promised features.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

No Wonder , the UE4 Engine is from Epic ;-)

[TheArisen]

I wonder if the Stryker pack is getting used to gauge how profitable MWO still is?

[BoldricKent]

I think thats a safe assumption.

[Sjorpha]

Why not say "scapegoat" though?

If you blame one thing (in this case the CP77 launch) for your actions when the real reason is another thing, that is the literal definition of scapegoat. Just say it.

I understand PGIs decisions from a business standpoint too, unfortunately that doesn't excuse lying. And they've been lying A LOT over the years. Starting with the lie that CW was near completion during the first release of open beta, when the truth was they hadn't even begun working on it, and it's been going on from there.

I would have been perfectly ok with these explanations had they been told to the community upfront.

When it comes to MW5 though the main problem has never been lying or delaying or slowing down MWO development to get it out or any other thing like that. All of that could easily be understood and forgiven if MW5 was a great game. But it sucks, it's really really bad game. And not in the "shaky state at release" way that lots of games are plagued with today where they get patched up into solid games over time, the game is just bad. Of course, PGIs handling of it put them in a position where MW5 needed to be a truly great game to make up for all that, so they dug their own grave there a bit, but not even perfect handling of everything would make MW5 an ok release. In the end you need a good product and PGIs only good product is MWO. (good enough to still sell that is).

You say MW5 xbox release being successful is a possible thing to make more ambitious development of MWO possible. Ok but that seems very unlikely to me, again because MW5 is still a terrible game. Sometimes hyped up games become "successful" even if they are bad, but MW5 isn't hyped up. So we're hoping for a bad game with no hype to suddenly blow up on a console... yeah i wouldn't bet on it.

IDK what eg7 will bring to the table, but I'm afraid it will amount to nothing more than pushing MWO towards more predatory monetisation without any gameplay improvements. I hope not but that's what I'm worried will happen.

Also I think it's worth pointing out that the gap in mwo development is ongoing, yes they've hired Daeron and tried to sound promising but as far as I know nothing has actually been done yet. I don't trust what they say so in my eyes the gap in development officially ends when the game starts seeing significant updates, not before.

Edited by Sjorpha, 09 March 2021 - 05:07 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

im seeing no real future...ok ,with tehe free Mechs Events PGI hope to bring players back, and to rescue the Studio in the Eyes of EG7 ...all in all its the same game liek 4 Years with nothing new Ideas and Stuff...dearon back and now? its the New Tina Benoit ? Dearon is not a Cry Coder or Programmer ,only the Voice in the Background for the Community

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 09 March 2021 - 09:05 PM.

[w0qj]

Just giving back to the community, here are the presentation notes as presented to us:
(minor spelling & contextual clarifications added by this author):

======================================

MWO/MW5 Timeline
================
-MW5 announced 2016@Mechcon - Release date set Dec 2018** (Delayed till Dec 2019)

-Community was told MW5 had a completely separate dev team. Which was possible but somewhat true at the start, using engineers to build the base, learn UE4.

-MWO Dev slowed significantly prior 2017/2018: almost all dev resources are now going to MW5

-MW5 Launching Dec 10, 2019

-PGI goes on holiday/new vacation, come back early Jan [2020]

-PGI secured a 5 year extension [for MechWarrior] Feb 25th 2020

-COVID hits US/CA heavy [March 2020]

-[MW5] DLC Heros of the Inner Sphere announced April 2020

-PGI Licence was ending June/July 2020 for MW [MechWarrior] IP from MS

-Daeron Katz becomes new CM for PGI; Oct 5, 2020

-EG7 acquires PGI Nov 25, 2020

-MWO Town Hall; Dec 8th 2020: Russ mentions they were always bringing MW5 to Xbox, that was the deal with MS

-DLC/MW5 Launch on Steam/GOG delayed due to CP moving launch date to Dec 10th 2020 (public), also a developer mentions they were going to delay anyway (source was from MW5 discord), so basically they used CP launch as an excuse

-DLC/MW5++ (Potential other DLC?) now slotted for Spring 2021 (no date of yet), AND now Xbox/GOG/Steam

Business perspective, Russ was looking at them losing the [MechWarrior] licence in June/July 2020, they need to get the product (MW5) out before, and have a little time to do a minor DLC.

-Four Years & some change left for development of MW5/DLC/MWO

-PGI [MechWarrior] Licence ending June/July 2025** (speculation on exact date**)

[If] MW5 Comes out and does REALLY well on Xbox, which then frees up capital, and potential negotiation with MS for another [MechWarrior] extension.

Edited by w0qj, 10 March 2021 - 01:27 AM.

[PocketYoda]

I don't really get it.. I understand people are salty and such but why hang around a game you seem to detest and bag out every time you get the chance.. that screams of deep seated "issues".

Now i understand PGI have made mistakes.. But i really hope this game gets back on its feet and prospers to some respect, i really have zero interest in MW5 sadly after the epic debacle but i still hope it does well on Steam and Consoles for future MWO content.

Seems to be a growing trend of people hating games for years like they are in some estranged relationship..

And now the Data center fires.. Man i hope everything is ok.

Edited by Samial, 10 March 2021 - 02:33 AM.

[FupDup]

Samial, on 10 March 2021 - 02:31 AM, said:

I don't really get it.. I understand people are salty and such but why hang around a game you seem to detest and bag out every time you get the chance.. that screams of deep seated "issues".

They don't detest it. They complain because they care. It can be frustrating watching something you like (or even love) getting mishandled year after year.

[The6thMessenger]

FupDup, on 10 March 2021 - 02:58 AM, said:

They don't detest it. They complain because they care. It can be frustrating watching something you like (or even love) getting mishandled year after year.

^THIS

Although honestly, MW5 was a way for me to just be done with PGI's bad decisions. I play MWO for the mechwarrior itch, and it's something I can do in MW5 a bit better, it's not that I'm that competitive for 12v12 or 8v8s, the sandbox is just fine for my purposes of driving a stompy-robot.

MW5 can be modded out of their most bad decisions, like bad hud, bad mechlab, all provided by Navid's MW5 reloaded, whom I hope would fix the incompatibility with MW5's new release. More mission types, more mech types too.

But noooo, lets have 3-4 months of exclusivity, on top of 1 year of exclusivity. I hope PGI got paid for those 3-4 more months of exclusivity, because I won't be paying full price for their BS. They say that HoTIS would fix most of MW5's gripes of being bland, but they are literally paywalling the fix. Imagine paying more than +60$ for something that's not even worth 30$.

I'd laugh, but this is actually sad and pathetic.

[JC Daxion]

@sean, thanks for the info as always man. Your vids are always enjoyable to watch in this crazy world so ty for that.



@edit, after watching it, you basically summed up what i have been thinking since around oct/nov

Nightbird, on 08 March 2021 - 09:30 AM, said:

If MW5 doesn't do well on the Xbox...

But hey, at least MW5 did well on the epic store, if only because of the exclusivity deal.

Don't mind me, I'm just upset MWO dev funds went to MW5 instead of promised features.

and if MW5 does well in the end that is going to be better for MWO. There isn't a game company around that takes every nickel and invests it into their current project. Even a game like EVE has used cash for other things. The number of One trick pony game companies is about as rare as finding a diamond washed up on the beach.


It's just something to keep in mind. This year, Eg7 and X-box/Steam release could be the best thing to happen to MWO in 3+ years or more depending on your position.

Edited by JC Daxion, 10 March 2021 - 05:56 AM.

[PocketYoda]

FupDup, on 10 March 2021 - 02:58 AM, said:

They don't detest it. They complain because they care. It can be frustrating watching something you like (or even love) getting mishandled year after year.

Doesn't seem so with how they want the game destroyed. Because their actions aren't helping.

Edited by Samial, 10 March 2021 - 05:33 AM.

[Dozer6]

FupDup, on 10 March 2021 - 02:58 AM, said:

They don't detest it. They complain because they care. It can be frustrating watching something you like (or even love) getting mishandled year after year.

Exactly.
Dust 514 was the ground combat side of Eve online, born on ps3 and was to be ported onto pc. That game was the TRUE thinking mans shooter.
The customization and skill tree, 16vs16, vehicles, tanks, and the planetary conquest competitive mode make this game look like mario cart at best.

Well two years in and CCP destroyed it with failed promises etc etc, shut the servers down eventually. I loved that game as i love this game and don't want to see it go down the same rabbit hole.

Goes to corner to weep...

[PocketYoda]

Dozer6, on 10 March 2021 - 06:07 AM, said:

Exactly.
Dust 514 was the ground combat side of Eve online, born on ps3 and was to be ported onto pc. That game was the TRUE thinking mans shooter.
The customization and skill tree, 16vs16, vehicles, tanks, and the planetary conquest competitive mode make this game look like mario cart at best.

Well two years in and CCP destroyed it with failed promises etc etc, shut the servers down eventually. I loved that game as i love this game and don't want to see it go down the same rabbit hole.

Goes to corner to weep...

I do understand i just feel the constant griping doesn't help the MWO playerbase or the devs reactions.

[_Magno_]

If people are going to claim something is bad, it would be helpful if they articulated what was bad about it.
Saying it was bad with no arguement isn’t helpful to the developers who want to understand what could be improved.

If all they hear is “bad” with no customer needs to act on, they will quickly ignore the hollow griping.

MW5 was a fine game for the money I spent on it. Nothing phenomenal, but I wasn’t expecting it.

The voice acting was meh, the friendly lance AI was pretty frustrating but it meant you had to be much more active in commanding them. As a feedback on that front, for most players PGI would need to make the AI less wreckless on defense missions. The game was playable through the campaign, the mods made the game much better. Was MW5 a cash grab? No.

I don’t envy anyone working in the game industry these days. Seems no established company can do anything right these days. Expectations are through the roof, instant gratification is too high, and the argument of, “I’m cynical and negative because I care” doesn’t hold water.
If you care, you seek to help. If you seek to help, you provide workable feedback with some semblance of empathy and not assume the worst motivations in the other to justify your emotional position.

A hard fact to reconcile is that $60 for game that wants to be AAA is only viable to both customer and developer if the sales numbers are in the millions.

Would people in a selective gaming area be willing to spend more money for better quality game BECAUSE the player base is smaller?

CoD: Modern Warfare costs almost $100 for full features and they make 5x as much as that by skins sales.

MW5 is a sinkhole of a development if you try and make it AAA standard and polished where the only revenue is the single sale to less than a million people.

So I understand the constraint on AI, quality, narrative and voice acting development on MW5 so I’m not holding that game to an expectation higher than mid tier games.

[Dauntless Blint]

I wish the game had the backing like warthunder or warframe to overhaul the graphics, UI and maybe maps and games modes.
There are some well meaning naiveties in this thread.
Hopefully they get a good insurance job out of the server fire.<s>
They need someone with a renewed vision. I see the level of detail and movie quality graphics in warthunder and wonder what a mech game done in that engine would look like. The tracer fire at night is particularly nice. Like if they really backed them selves.

[FupDup]

The6thMessenger, on 10 March 2021 - 03:16 AM, said:

^THIS

Although honestly, MW5 was a way for me to just be done with PGI's bad decisions. I play MWO for the mechwarrior itch, and it's something I can do in MW5 a bit better, it's not that I'm that competitive for 12v12 or 8v8s, the sandbox is just fine for my purposes of driving a stompy-robot.

MW5 can be modded out of their most bad decisions, like bad hud, bad mechlab, all provided by Navid's MW5 reloaded, whom I hope would fix the incompatibility with MW5's new release. More mission types, more mech types too.

But noooo, lets have 3-4 months of exclusivity, on top of 1 year of exclusivity. I hope PGI got paid for those 3-4 more months of exclusivity, because I won't be paying full price for their BS. They say that HoTIS would fix most of MW5's gripes of being bland, but they are literally paywalling the fix. Imagine paying more than +60$ for something that's not even worth 30$.

I'd laugh, but this is actually sad and pathetic.

I just play HBS Battletech for my giant robot itch right now.

Edited by FupDup, 10 March 2021 - 01:08 PM.

[TheArisen]

Samial, on 10 March 2021 - 06:28 AM, said:

I do understand i just feel the constant griping doesn't help the MWO playerbase or the devs reactions.

I'd agree that some people get really antagonistic but the thing you need to understand is more than a few of us have been here suggesting things and putting in considerable effort for YEARS because of our attachment to the game/universe, etc. Idk how many threads I've started just aimed at improving the game and always writing them in a friendly manner. I know PGI has no obligation to listen but several of those threads got quite large and were even seen by PGI and even with officially recognized things like the balance suggested years ago by the community just got put in in a sort of weird way.

PGI does listen but it can be really hard to know if they are and then what they'll actually do can be more then a little off.

[Nightbird]

JC Daxion, on 10 March 2021 - 04:54 AM, said:

and if MW5 does well in the end that is going to be better for MWO. There isn't a game company around that takes every nickel and invests it into their current project. Even a game like EVE has used cash for other things. The number of One trick pony game companies is about as rare as finding a diamond washed up on the beach.


It's just something to keep in mind. This year, Eg7 and X-box/Steam release could be the best thing to happen to MWO in 3+ years or more depending on your position.

MW5 has a 5.2 user rating on metacritic... it's not about what you or I wish at this point.

I also plan to get it when it releases on Steam. https://store.steamp..._5_Mercenaries/