166 replies to this topic

[FLG 01]

Samial, on 19 March 2021 - 07:14 PM, said:

Also Machine guns should be removed from MWO they do not affect mechs..

A MG does exactly 2 DMG in TT against Mechs, just as much as a single SRM. They were MGs before there was infantry in BT TT, you know.

Samial, on 19 March 2021 - 07:14 PM, said:

Technically all ppcs should have splash damage.. according to the tabletop..

That's just not true.

[Wildstreak]

Alexandros, on 19 March 2021 - 05:46 PM, said:

It damages the electronics on the area the "shell" falls and disintegrates thats why it has the safety of the 90 meters on the classic ppc (so it doesnt explode on close quarters impact) - I assumed this kind of "area effect" counts as "damage".

Monke-, on 19 March 2021 - 07:06 PM, said:

If that was the case then why do both snubs and ERPPCs lack a minimum range? Don't state something as fact then turn around to say "oh well I just assumed" to try cover your ***.

90 meter 'safety' explained at link I posted here which is probably better for discussing PPC minimum range.

[PocketYoda]

FLG 01, on 19 March 2021 - 07:22 PM, said:

A MG does exactly 2 DMG in TT against Mechs, just as much as a single SRM. They were MGs before there was infantry in BT TT, you know.


That's just not true.

Ok i re read the rules apologies my info was wrong. The new starter box has no machine gun rules that i could find.

To be fair they are pretty bad against mechs unless using the optional rules.

In the rules Clan don't appear to have AC type weapons at all.

Edited by Samial, 19 March 2021 - 08:26 PM.

[ColourfulConfetti]

Alexandros, on 19 March 2021 - 03:56 PM, said:

What about us casual players that want the flavor of real battletech feeling? Why the game has to always shift to the minorities like "Gulag" and "champion" / "competitive people" that are not the majority?

You destroyed Gauss riffle by adding the charge , you gave the PPC splash only to clans, the same people held a campaign against the LRMS and now its a shame to play that weapon without being discriminated. Now you want to take away the fun we have from the PPCS (Since you all cry about reverting it). You keep destroying the very core of the playerbase ,the CASUALS.


Mechwarrior was about bringing different ideas to the table and surprise your enemies. Not ending up copying eachother's maximum effective builds that are already pre DECIDED by the minority.

You push a small company to do constant tuning according to your fetishes and not letting them develop SOMETHING NEW.

Uh oh! Can't have somebody questioning the Gulag overlords, now please prostrate yourself and prepare for your public lashings. For the sake of the community you see, you'll understand in time.

I still barely even know what the 'Gulag" is or what it is comprised of tbh. With who is presenting/responding to it, you get the impression its a balance change project ran by some comp team.
Granted, that is mostly due to being not involved with the MWO community for years. I fully admit I don't have complete information on hand.

I do have to disagree on a few points though, PGI were the ones who added a gauss charge time, (which was a good addition imo) as it significantly differentiates the weapon from feeling like an AC type weapon. The PPC splash damage thing was also PGI. It does contribute to the clan erppcs being in the top spot that it is at atm. So, kinda neutral on that change.

The gulag changes seem to give a lot of attention to weapons systems that sorta suck right now, so I think they could be good, but you know, what seems good on paper might not always be good in action. Regardless, I am curious to see how it turns out. I'm willing to give it a chance after the last patch, to say the least. Not trying to put the whole gulag project on a pedestal, but they'd have to try pretty hard to be worse than the last patch.

Edited by ColourfulConfetti, 19 March 2021 - 09:00 PM.

[Alexandros]

For the sake of correction I strongly believe that the gauss charge change was a shift that PGI did because of the competitive side of the game so my accusation wasnt on Gulag for that but the competitive players, I tend to put them on the same pot cause i see the same people talking on forums for years.


Some people involved on this "project" have their own agenda for this game . And Its not the first game I see changing like that because the of few constantly hammering the devs (PGI are not saints but this is like beating a person that already is knocked out)

Edited by Alexandros, 19 March 2021 - 09:20 PM.

[RickySpanish]

Personally I blame Ash. Like my Grandad always used to say - never trust anyone from the Colonies.

[Alexandros]

Wildstreak, on 19 March 2021 - 07:53 PM, said:

90 meter 'safety' explained at link I posted here which is probably better for discussing PPC minimum range.

Snub // ER PPC dont have the same unstable release as the classic Particle cannon so they dont need the safety measure. But they do the same devastating effect where they fall

Edited by Alexandros, 19 March 2021 - 09:24 PM.

[Alexandros]

ColourfulConfetti, on 19 March 2021 - 08:58 PM, said:

Uh oh! Can't have somebody questioning the Gulag overlords, now please prostrate yourself and prepare for your public lashings. For the sake of the community you see, you'll understand in time.

I still barely even know what the 'Gulag" is or what it is comprised of tbh. With who is presenting/responding to it, you get the impression its a balance change project ran by some comp team.
Granted, that is mostly due to being not involved with the MWO community for years. I fully admit I don't have complete information on hand.

I do have to disagree on a few points though, PGI were the ones who added a gauss charge time, (which was a good addition imo) as it significantly differentiates the weapon from feeling like an AC type weapon. The PPC splash damage thing was also PGI. It does contribute to the clan erppcs being in the top spot that it is at atm. So, kinda neutral on that change.

The gulag changes seem to give a lot of attention to weapons systems that sorta suck right now, so I think they could be good, but you know, what seems good on paper might not always be good in action. Regardless, I am curious to see how it turns out. I'm willing to give it a chance after the last patch, to say the least. Not trying to put the whole gulag project on a pedestal, but they'd have to try pretty hard to be worse than the last patch.

Nobody can question anything here without being the "fool" of village. Me and many others that liked the patch changes were the "clueless dudes" according to many "experts" here just because we didnt enter the "PPCS ARE BAD NOW" train.

[w0qj]

+1 Agree exactly.

I also do not feel represented by the gulag.

But realistically, what are the alternatives?
Let MWO/PGI do the monkey business (almost literally) do the MWO game balance for us?
Just look at what happened to the infamous 17-March-2021 game 'balance' patch??

The6thMessenger, on 19 March 2021 - 04:04 PM, said:

I'm going to be honest with you.

Neither do I.

I ain't part of the 20+ people working in it, and I'm pretty sure it's mostly the high-end people than the low-end people when they said they have low-skill people in the panel as well. There's always a difference in philosophy, and though their changes is nice, there's still min-maxing BS there that they would rather keep.

But I have seen the work and effort they have put in, made me believe in them more than PGI right now.

[ColourfulConfetti]

Alexandros, on 19 March 2021 - 09:32 PM, said:

Nobody can question anything here without being the "fool" of village. Me and many others that liked the patch changes were the "clueless dudes" according to many "experts" here just because we didnt enter the "PPCS ARE BAD NOW" train.

I get where you're coming from, I think people were too eager to pick at people who didn't agree with the sentiment of disliking the patch. While I personally disliked the latest patch, I can see why some people might have liked the changes. There should have been more civil discourse around it, ideally.

That's not to say I am not optimistic about the Gulag changes, I think it can do good for the game, but damn man, people are too quick to draw sabres over this.

Edited by ColourfulConfetti, 19 March 2021 - 10:20 PM.

[Alexandros]

Man , I dont agree with a million stuff that PGI did but seeing a certain "gang" of players ruling the fates of the rest of us is nope. I just dont accept it. Call me strange or whatever I ve been playing from 2012 and I saw the same groups of people altering the game with their own toxic behavior and constant demands and making newcomers see the game and pop out fleeing. All in a sugarcoated shell of "We are pros we do this for your own good". And the same time on other platforms like Reddit you read plans to boycott MWO by massive exodus incited by the very same people and their toxic communities.

This game used to have one of the most amazing communities. Now you say your opinion and the seal clubbing begins.

[Adette]

Alexandros, on 19 March 2021 - 09:57 PM, said:

Man , I dont agree with a million stuff that PGI did but seeing a certain "gang" of players ruling the fates of the rest of us is nope. I just dont accept it. Call me strange or whatever I ve been playing from 2012 and I saw the same groups of people altering the game with their own toxic behavior and constant demands and making newcomers see the game and pop out fleeing. All in a sugarcoated shell of "We are pros we do this for your own good". And the same time on other platforms like Reddit you read plans to boycott MWO by massive exodus incited by the very same people and their toxic communities.

This game used to have one of the most amazing communities. Now you say your opinion and the seal clubbing begins.

Trying to make currently bad weapons actually useful = toxic, is bad logic. If the gulag proposal was favouring one playstyle while intentionally nerfing another, then maybe you could say there's an agenda. This has been worked on for many months, with multiple players from multiple different units/teams/playstyle choices that put this together.

Right now, IS MPLs > everything else in that ranged bracket to use makes for a stale game. Dakka being the mid long range choice > everything else also makes for a stale game. Those mech chassis that can't boat those weapons become less useful. Yeah, you could still play mechs that don't play to that playstyle, but they're not as good. You could say "but I don't care about meta, I just want to play whatever I want," but you could still play whatever you want after the gulag changes, but those weapons that you choose as the "whatever I want" would actually be on par and useful as compared to what rules current meta.

[John Bronco]

You seem to place a lot of blame on "some people" for things which can only be attributed to PGI's poor decisions made in their own non-sensical vacuum.

That there is a community group still trying to improve this game after all these years speaks to it's quality.

[The6thMessenger]

Alexandros, on 19 March 2021 - 09:57 PM, said:

Man , I dont agree with a million stuff that PGI did but seeing a certain "gang" of players ruling the fates of the rest of us is nope. I just dont accept it. Call me strange or whatever I ve been playing from 2012 and I saw the same groups of people altering the game with their own toxic behavior and constant demands and making newcomers see the game and pop out fleeing. All in a sugarcoated shell of "We are pros we do this for your own good". And the same time on other platforms like Reddit you read plans to boycott MWO by massive exodus incited by the very same people and their toxic communities.

This game used to have one of the most amazing communities. Now you say your opinion and the seal clubbing begins.

We're lucky that PGI is willing to finally listen -- yes luck, because it's surely not because they are good developers.

The reality is that, we just have different opinions. Even in comp, they somewhat differ in opinions to some degree. But there is one thing we can agree upon, and that is better MWO, we may not agree on all things, but we can agree on that.

You have said that the Gulag does not speak for you, so do you speak for the gulag, or the rest of us for that matter?

Because what you would want, would affect others, and it might not be what they want. The Gulag is simply the compromise of a sizable part of the community that was able to organize through the noise. This makes them more actionable because its a portion of the community would want that was able to agree on something, versus a single individual.

It's literally democracy. Welcome to the real world.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 20 March 2021 - 12:24 AM.

[Navid A1]

Just wanted to say that the gulag is not a gang.

If I show the the conversations that usually goes on there about how we should approach something, the forums suddenly will look like a symphony, in terms of opinions.

We have people for and against every single change. No one is pushing an agenda. We have Daeron and Matt also in there. They can see every discussion themselves.

[w0qj]

Actually that's pretty close to the definition of socialism.

But let's not open that can of worms

The6thMessenger, on 19 March 2021 - 10:21 PM, said:

...Gulag is simply the compromise of a sizable part of the community that was able to organize through the noise. This makes them more actionable because it what a portion of the community would want that was able to agree on something, versus a single individual.

It's literally democracy. ...

[The6thMessenger]

w0qj, on 19 March 2021 - 10:51 PM, said:

Actually that's pretty close to the definition of socialism.

But let's not open that can of worms

I was thinking of him going against a larger collective. But Fair enough.

[Lucian Nostra]

Alexandros, on 19 March 2021 - 09:15 PM, said:

For the sake of correction I strongly believe that the gauss charge change was a shift that PGI did because of the competitive side of the game so my accusation wasnt on Gulag for that but the competitive players, I tend to put them on the same pot cause i see the same people talking on forums for years.


Some people involved on this "project" have their own agenda for this game . And Its not the first game I see changing like that because the of few constantly hammering the devs (PGI are not saints but this is like beating a person that already is knocked out)

At the end of the day it was a PGI move, the meta for a good portion of MWOs time pre clan was the poptart meta of 2 gauss rifles and a PPC, (or 2 PPCs and a Gauss rifle) Usually run on Victors or Cataphracts. PGI didn't like this being the meta so added a charge to the Gauss rifle so you couldn't just group em into 1 shot as easily, changed the velocity of PPCs to make em hit at diff times, than nerfed the crap outta jump jets as well as putting in the jumping reticle shaking

So I guess you could blame like... 60-75% of the players for the Gauss having a charge time because it was all over the place back than.

But I dunno if I was you I would stop assuming stuff, if you look at a LOT of the Gulag's proposed changes they make a lot of sense, a lot of them address core problems with weapons (IE nobody ever said PPCs don't do enough damage, or that they fire to fast the complaint has always been about how hot they are) so that you don't need to run 1 super over quirked mech to run a weapon system well. It's a balance change that would go well with reducing quirks on mechs instead of trying to make mechs OP with a single weapon. For instance Awesome 8Qs with PPCs or 8Rs with LRM 15s.

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 19 March 2021 - 11:14 PM.

[SPNKRGrenth]

Alexandros over here talking like he represents all the casuals, when he only represents himself.

I'm super casual, and the Gulag does far more to make the game more enjoyable for casuals and be newbie friendly, than it does to specifically make the comp scene more varied.

Alexandros is very confused on where the blame for the years of descent into the unfunning MWO lays, blaming the Gulag for so many nerfs, when every time the Gulag has wanted pretty much the reverse. Year after year, PGI gets warned by fans that care about the continuation of the game that something will drive people away, but PGI did their own thing anyway and no surprise, it chased ever more people off.

But sure, blame that on people who have no direct control over development of the game, it's entertaining.

Edited by SPNKRGrenth, 20 March 2021 - 12:45 AM.

[Curccu]

Alexandros, on 19 March 2021 - 03:56 PM, said:

You destroyed Gauss riffle by adding the charge

Well have to disagree there... you got two options learn to play it (not really that hard if you bother to use some playtime with it or whine 5+ Years (must be way more than that really, cannot remember when it came) that gauss is broken cause charge.

and yes this is a bait thread.