Krasnopesky, on 15 April 2021 - 06:06 AM, said:
It is widely accepted that IS MPLs are one of the strongest weapon systems in the game, hence why I didn't post evidence. Literally all ~20 people in The Cauldron agreed on this point and the vast majority of the feedback we have recieved from the community also follows this agreement.
Appeal to the majority fallacy. There are specific brawling/wolf pack scenarios were lighter mechs with fewer hardpoints benefit from them. Their range, heat build up, and weight (borne out through the DPS/ton metric) makes them unwieldy for larger 'Mechs with multiple weapon systems.
Krasnopesky, on 15 April 2021 - 06:06 AM, said:
Your assertion that AC2s are absent from QP, FP, and comp is simply not true, they are used in all those game modes. AC2 Annihilators and Maulers are common and strong enough to be used quite effectively (often in conjunction with an ERPPC). Similarly to the IS MPL, most people in the community find AC2s either fine how they are or even too strong. Very very few people have provided feedback to say that AC2s are underperforming. As I said, they are not seen as much in QP due to the overbearing NASCAR meta that forces people into rotating to survive in many QP games.
I play tier 3/2/1 QP and I have played FP. AC2 Annihilators and Maulers are not a thing and would be a disadvantage to the team with them in the drop. Your argument suffers when it relies on statements that are not supported in the player experience. They might be a thing in Comp where the engagement parameters can be anticipated, but not in QP or FP where the engagement parameters are more random (unless you're on a pre-made in FP and everyone has their same prescribed 32 decks. Elitism???)
Krasnopesky, on 15 April 2021 - 06:06 AM, said:
Claiming that regular Gauss Rifles dominate anything currently in game is a lot more questionable than claiming IS MPL and AC2s do not need buffing.
IS Gauss Rifles are certainly more present than IS AC2s for long range engagement.
Krasnopesky, on 15 April 2021 - 06:06 AM, said:
The Cyclops Sleipnir can run both 2x UAC10 + 2x UAC5 and 4x UAC5. The former is seen by many as the superior build in fact.
This invalidates your appeal to the majority, if it wasn't already a logical fallacy. The UAC5/10 build on the Sleipnir is not a thing. If anything it is a meme build.
https://thecauldron....#_682a7900_CP-S
It sports a 225 engine with a 40.5kph top speed, slower than most Annihilators. It also has single heatsinks because the engine has only nine internal heatsinks and because of the limited space available after the weight savings of Endosteel. The Endosteal can be shed in favor of LFF armor, at a cost of 120 points of armor protection and a ton of ammunition, but then double heatsinks can be mounted. Nevertheless, it is still a hopelessly slow 'Mech. It is not seen in QP, nor in FP.
https://thecauldron....#_f31ab651_CP-S
The Quad UAC5 Sleipnir is much more viable with a top speed of 54.9kph and full armor, but it is a DPS build and much hotter than the Dual Heavy Gauss build. Further the player experience has favored the Quad LB10-X build over the Quad UAC5 because of similar DPS, less heat and better crit chance.
Finally, elitism creeps back in because the Sleipnir is a hero 'Mech, one that new players might be able to buy on sale after doing a year of events. (Or they can get it by purchasing a standard pack and a hero add-on for $35, because it is not purchasable independently). So using this as an example reflects the elitist perspective being offered.
Krasnopesky, on 15 April 2021 - 06:06 AM, said:
These are the clan Mechs you have identifed: Dire Wolf, Kodiak, Mad Cat, Blood Asp, Warhawk, Marauder IIC, Rifleman IIC.
Here are the IS counterparts: Annihilator, Fafnir, King Crab, Nightstar, Cyclops, Mauler, Victor, Warhammer.
Some perform better on the clan side, some perform better on the IS side. Some of the Mechs on the IS side need help in particular, but we are addressing that through mobility and quirks rather than weapon systems.
Yes, they may be counterparts, but again of the list you provided, only the Annihilator and Fafnir can mount the UAC5/10 meta in a 2:2 ratio. The Dire Wolf, Kodiak, Mad Cat MkII, and the Rifleman IIC can all mount this meta. The others function better as UAC5 builds, which isn't the meta and again suffer as damage over time builds rather than high alpha builds. And this is not something that can be addressed with mobility quirks because of the size and weight differential of IS UACs and the IS 'Mechs that mount them.
And again, the IS 'Mechs cited are not known in QP and FP for boating IS UACs.
Krasnopesky, on 15 April 2021 - 06:06 AM, said:
The last point you briefly mentioned: "IS LRMs... fire simultaneously" is what makes them better. That element is so important it trumps the other advantages that clan LRMs have. Also many of the best IS Mechs have great missile quirks which futher enhances their effectiveness. IS LRM boats can be more difficult to pilot, as they are usually slower, but that does not make them worse than Clan LRMs boats.
This is were the disagreement lies. The sheer number of tubes that Clan 'Mechs can mount and the volume of fire they can sustain overwhelm the quirked IS LRMs. It is why lines of Trebuchets and Awesomes are not seen and why lines of Nova Cats, Sunspiders, Warhammers, and Supernovae are seen.
Krasnopesky, on 15 April 2021 - 06:06 AM, said:
My statement stands that your suggestions on the IS PPC family, especially HPPC and SNPPC, will make them far too overpowered.
....without credible support. Yet, I can credibly demonstrate through their DOR how they are underpowered (even after updating the numbers).
Krasnopesky, on 15 April 2021 - 06:06 AM, said:
My analysis understood that LPPC are capped at 3 without ghost heat, amounting to only 15 damage, or half of what 3 Snub Nose PPCs can do.
You are forgetting about A/B builds where two weapon groups are fired quickly in succession. The Triple CERPPC Vapor Eagle is a prime example and very prevalent. And the Quad CERPPC Warhawk is not unknown on the battlefield.
Krasnopesky, on 15 April 2021 - 06:06 AM, said:
The pinpoint nature of the Snub Nose PPC is hugely important and not something you should undervalue as much as you appear to do so. The changes that are coming to SNPPCs (+1 HSL & -30% heat) are large enough already and we shall definitely see a lot more usage and competitiveness from this weapon.
First, pinpoint is overemphasized. Yes, it has quite a bit of potential, but then it is an all or nothing potential; misjudge and you either miss completely or miss the desired component. Damage over time may have reduced potential, but burst fire and laser tracing allow for adjustment during discharge. The prevalence of A/B builds, as discussed above, also would tend to undermine the importance of pinpoint in a single alpha, especially as the A shot provides feedback for aiming the B shot.
Second, you are missing the argument about the IS MPL. Based on Cauldron numbers, two IS MPLs still do more damage, at greater heat efficiency, at the same range, and for two fewer tons than a single SNPPC. The Snub-Nose PPC does not have space to flourish when competing against both the LPPC, with no minimum range, and the IS MPL.
Edited by Lionheart2012, 17 April 2021 - 01:05 PM.
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