704 replies to this topic

[John Bronco]

If you guys are trying to argue IS MPL is not a very strong weapon in every single game mode I can only conclude you aren't playing the game.

[justcallme A S H]

Lionheart2012, on 17 April 2021 - 10:19 AM, said:

I have.

I have been the primary Shoutcaster for the highest tier Comp matches since 2019 and have casted since 2017.

From 2017 onward IS MPL has been the strongest weapon for it's use/class (Lights/Mediums). That goes for Quick Play, Faction Play, Comp Play and Solaris.

If you have, actually, watched all the Comp Matches as you claim - there is no logical way you could have come to the conclusion that IS MPL needs buffs.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 17 April 2021 - 10:47 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

justcallme A S H, on 17 April 2021 - 10:42 AM, said:

I have been the primary Shoutcaster for the highest tier Comp matches since 2019 and have casted since 2017.

From 2017 onward IS MPL has been the strongest weapon for it's use/class (Lights/Mediums). That goes for Quick Play, Faction Play, Comp Play and Solaris.

If you have, actually, watched all the Comp Matches as you claim - there is no logical way you could have come to the conclusion that IS MPL needs buffs.

We're saying they work great in comp.. not so much in qp (real world).. except on a few mechs, they they are too situational.. (hot and short range). See my post above..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 17 April 2021 - 11:48 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

I clearly said they are great in Quick Play, because they are.

Remember you're the guy that for 10+ pages said players need to stop using "META crutches". IS MPL has been over the top META performer since 2018 so by your own definition, it's one of those crutches.

Your statements have flip-flopped quite a bit the last few weeks. It would appear you just wanted to be the contrarian for the sake of it.

End or the day, the change is coming and it's here is a couple of days.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 17 April 2021 - 12:03 PM.

[Lionheart2012]

Krasnopesky, on 15 April 2021 - 06:06 AM, said:

It is widely accepted that IS MPLs are one of the strongest weapon systems in the game, hence why I didn't post evidence. Literally all ~20 people in The Cauldron agreed on this point and the vast majority of the feedback we have recieved from the community also follows this agreement.

Appeal to the majority fallacy. There are specific brawling/wolf pack scenarios were lighter mechs with fewer hardpoints benefit from them. Their range, heat build up, and weight (borne out through the DPS/ton metric) makes them unwieldy for larger 'Mechs with multiple weapon systems.

Krasnopesky, on 15 April 2021 - 06:06 AM, said:

Your assertion that AC2s are absent from QP, FP, and comp is simply not true, they are used in all those game modes. AC2 Annihilators and Maulers are common and strong enough to be used quite effectively (often in conjunction with an ERPPC). Similarly to the IS MPL, most people in the community find AC2s either fine how they are or even too strong. Very very few people have provided feedback to say that AC2s are underperforming. As I said, they are not seen as much in QP due to the overbearing NASCAR meta that forces people into rotating to survive in many QP games.

I play tier 3/2/1 QP and I have played FP. AC2 Annihilators and Maulers are not a thing and would be a disadvantage to the team with them in the drop. Your argument suffers when it relies on statements that are not supported in the player experience. They might be a thing in Comp where the engagement parameters can be anticipated, but not in QP or FP where the engagement parameters are more random (unless you're on a pre-made in FP and everyone has their same prescribed 32 decks. Elitism???)

Krasnopesky, on 15 April 2021 - 06:06 AM, said:

Claiming that regular Gauss Rifles dominate anything currently in game is a lot more questionable than claiming IS MPL and AC2s do not need buffing.

IS Gauss Rifles are certainly more present than IS AC2s for long range engagement.

Krasnopesky, on 15 April 2021 - 06:06 AM, said:

The Cyclops Sleipnir can run both 2x UAC10 + 2x UAC5 and 4x UAC5. The former is seen by many as the superior build in fact.

This invalidates your appeal to the majority, if it wasn't already a logical fallacy. The UAC5/10 build on the Sleipnir is not a thing. If anything it is a meme build.

https://thecauldron....#_682a7900_CP-S

It sports a 225 engine with a 40.5kph top speed, slower than most Annihilators. It also has single heatsinks because the engine has only nine internal heatsinks and because of the limited space available after the weight savings of Endosteel. The Endosteal can be shed in favor of LFF armor, at a cost of 120 points of armor protection and a ton of ammunition, but then double heatsinks can be mounted. Nevertheless, it is still a hopelessly slow 'Mech. It is not seen in QP, nor in FP.

https://thecauldron....#_f31ab651_CP-S

The Quad UAC5 Sleipnir is much more viable with a top speed of 54.9kph and full armor, but it is a DPS build and much hotter than the Dual Heavy Gauss build. Further the player experience has favored the Quad LB10-X build over the Quad UAC5 because of similar DPS, less heat and better crit chance.

Finally, elitism creeps back in because the Sleipnir is a hero 'Mech, one that new players might be able to buy on sale after doing a year of events. (Or they can get it by purchasing a standard pack and a hero add-on for $35, because it is not purchasable independently). So using this as an example reflects the elitist perspective being offered.

Krasnopesky, on 15 April 2021 - 06:06 AM, said:

These are the clan Mechs you have identifed: Dire Wolf, Kodiak, Mad Cat, Blood Asp, Warhawk, Marauder IIC, Rifleman IIC.
Here are the IS counterparts: Annihilator, Fafnir, King Crab, Nightstar, Cyclops, Mauler, Victor, Warhammer.

Some perform better on the clan side, some perform better on the IS side. Some of the Mechs on the IS side need help in particular, but we are addressing that through mobility and quirks rather than weapon systems.

Yes, they may be counterparts, but again of the list you provided, only the Annihilator and Fafnir can mount the UAC5/10 meta in a 2:2 ratio. The Dire Wolf, Kodiak, Mad Cat MkII, and the Rifleman IIC can all mount this meta. The others function better as UAC5 builds, which isn't the meta and again suffer as damage over time builds rather than high alpha builds. And this is not something that can be addressed with mobility quirks because of the size and weight differential of IS UACs and the IS 'Mechs that mount them.

And again, the IS 'Mechs cited are not known in QP and FP for boating IS UACs.

Krasnopesky, on 15 April 2021 - 06:06 AM, said:

The last point you briefly mentioned: "IS LRMs... fire simultaneously" is what makes them better. That element is so important it trumps the other advantages that clan LRMs have. Also many of the best IS Mechs have great missile quirks which futher enhances their effectiveness. IS LRM boats can be more difficult to pilot, as they are usually slower, but that does not make them worse than Clan LRMs boats.

This is were the disagreement lies. The sheer number of tubes that Clan 'Mechs can mount and the volume of fire they can sustain overwhelm the quirked IS LRMs. It is why lines of Trebuchets and Awesomes are not seen and why lines of Nova Cats, Sunspiders, Warhammers, and Supernovae are seen.

Krasnopesky, on 15 April 2021 - 06:06 AM, said:

My statement stands that your suggestions on the IS PPC family, especially HPPC and SNPPC, will make them far too overpowered.

....without credible support. Yet, I can credibly demonstrate through their DOR how they are underpowered (even after updating the numbers).

Krasnopesky, on 15 April 2021 - 06:06 AM, said:

My analysis understood that LPPC are capped at 3 without ghost heat, amounting to only 15 damage, or half of what 3 Snub Nose PPCs can do.

You are forgetting about A/B builds where two weapon groups are fired quickly in succession. The Triple CERPPC Vapor Eagle is a prime example and very prevalent. And the Quad CERPPC Warhawk is not unknown on the battlefield.

Krasnopesky, on 15 April 2021 - 06:06 AM, said:

The pinpoint nature of the Snub Nose PPC is hugely important and not something you should undervalue as much as you appear to do so. The changes that are coming to SNPPCs (+1 HSL & -30% heat) are large enough already and we shall definitely see a lot more usage and competitiveness from this weapon.

First, pinpoint is overemphasized. Yes, it has quite a bit of potential, but then it is an all or nothing potential; misjudge and you either miss completely or miss the desired component. Damage over time may have reduced potential, but burst fire and laser tracing allow for adjustment during discharge. The prevalence of A/B builds, as discussed above, also would tend to undermine the importance of pinpoint in a single alpha, especially as the A shot provides feedback for aiming the B shot.

Second, you are missing the argument about the IS MPL. Based on Cauldron numbers, two IS MPLs still do more damage, at greater heat efficiency, at the same range, and for two fewer tons than a single SNPPC. The Snub-Nose PPC does not have space to flourish when competing against both the LPPC, with no minimum range, and the IS MPL.

Edited by Lionheart2012, 17 April 2021 - 01:05 PM.

[DAEDALOS513]

justcallme A S H, on 17 April 2021 - 12:02 PM, said:

I clearly said they are great in Quick Play, because they are.

Remember you're the guy that for 10+ pages said players need to stop using "META crutches". IS MPL has been over the top META performer since 2018 so by your own definition, it's one of those crutches.

Your statements have flip-flopped quite a bit the last few weeks. It would appear you just wanted to be the contrarian for the sake of it.

End or the day, the change is coming and it's here is a couple of days.

Agree to disagree.. IS mp is hardly meta.. the only time i see MP's is on a vulcan, wlf or uzie.. if it was that op, we would see it being used on more mechs.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 17 April 2021 - 12:56 PM.

[denAirwalkerrr]

DAEDALOS513, on 17 April 2021 - 12:55 PM, said:

Agree to disagree.. IS mp is hardly meta.. the only time i see MP's is on a vulcan, wlf or uzie.. if it was that op, we would see it being used on more mechs.

5-6MPL meta:
COM-TDK
UM-K9
PNT-9R
WLF-(literally all of them)
CDA-2A
CDA-2B
VL-5T
BJ-1DC
HSN-7D2
PXH-2
VND-1R
CRB-20
CRB-27
CRB-27B
CRB-27SL
UZL-6P
GRF-1E
CPLT-J

Suplementary 4-6 in addition to other weapons:
CHP-1N2
CHP-3N
RFL-3N
RGH-3A
TDR-5SS
TDR-5S-T
GHR-5H
GHR-5N
WHM-(literally all of them)
BL-(literally all of them)
MAD-BH2
MAD-5M
AWS-8Q
CRG-1A1
BLR-1G
BLR-3M
STK-(literally all of them)
AS7-(literally all of them)
FNR 3 to 5 with 2xHGR
ANH 5 to 6 with 2xHGR

Edited by denAirwalkerrr, 17 April 2021 - 01:34 PM.

[dario03]

DAEDALOS513, on 17 April 2021 - 12:55 PM, said:

Agree to disagree.. IS mp is hardly meta.. the only time i see MP's is on a vulcan, wlf or uzie.. if it was that op, we would see it being used on more mechs.

Commando, Urbie, Blackjack, Crab, Dervish, Hellspawn, Phoenix Hawk, Catapult, Quickdraw can all also run mpl as their main weapon and do well. There are other mechs that can use them in combination with other weapons like srms and heavy gauss to do well with. There are also other mechs like the Jenner and Firestarter that would do well with them compared to other options, but the mech itself is outclassed by similar mechs.

Edited by dario03, 17 April 2021 - 01:34 PM.

[Yondu Udonta]

Lionheart2012, on 17 April 2021 - 12:53 PM, said:

https://thecauldron....#_682a7900_CP-S

It sports a 225 engine with a 40.5kph top speed, slower than most Annihilators. It also has single heatsinks because the engine has only nine internal heatsinks and because of the limited space available after the weight savings of Endosteel. The Endosteal can be shed in favor of LFF armor, at a cost of 120 points of armor protection and a ton of ammunition, but then double heatsinks can be mounted. Nevertheless, it is still a hopelessly slow 'Mech. It is not seen in QP, nor in FP.

I highly suggest that you improve your understanding of the game before making claims of elitism, as this mechbuilding that you have displayed in this post has shown nothing but abject incompetency. This is akin to debating with an entire scientific community that the Earth is flat instead of being spherical.

[MyriadDigits]

Lionheart2012, on 17 April 2021 - 12:53 PM, said:

This invalidates your appeal to the majority, if it wasn't already a logical fallacy. The UAC5/10 build on the Sleipnir is not a thing. If anything it is a meme build.

https://thecauldron....#_682a7900_CP-S

It sports a 225 engine with a 40.5kph top speed, slower than most Annihilators. It also has single heatsinks because the engine has only nine internal heatsinks and because of the limited space available after the weight savings of Endosteel. The Endosteal can be shed in favor of LFF armor, at a cost of 120 points of armor protection and a ton of ammunition, but then double heatsinks can be mounted. Nevertheless, it is still a hopelessly slow 'Mech. It is not seen in QP, nor in FP.

https://thecauldron....#_f31ab651_CP-S

The Quad UAC5 Sleipnir is much more viable with a top speed of 54.9kph and full armor, but it is a DPS build and much hotter than the Dual Heavy Gauss build. Further the player experience has favored the Quad LB10-X build over the Quad UAC5 because of similar DPS, less heat and better crit chance.

https://thecauldron....#_af4ad423_CP-S looks like you dropped your STD260 there buddy.

[Bows3r]

Lionheart2012, on 17 April 2021 - 10:19 AM, said:

I have.



Talking down to the NASCAR phenomenon as a reason for avoiding a proper balance to the game suggests a detachment from an understanding in how the game is played by most people and thus how changes would benefit the most people. If it benefits the few, elite, like you, who play Comp, then by definition it is elitist.

If you have supposedly watched high level comp, I find it extremely difficult you would come to that conclusion. Because as far as I'm aware, UAC's, IS-MPL (most prominently on light mechs and wolfpacks but sometimes seen on full decks who IS-MPL rush), and C-ERPPC's. Last I checked, the only Gauss Rifles used in competitive are Heavy Gauss rifles (and occasionally gauss vom on the deathstrike), because spoiler alert, Gauss Rifles do not have enough range to even be used as 'long' range weapons, not even matching the range of un-quirked IS-ERLL's.

Okay, what? So acknowledging a problem with a phenomenon in the game at the moment is 'elitist? Or are you simply proposing it doesn't even exist so it's not worth talking about? Or perhaps are you proposing that NASCAR doesn't affect gameplay significantly, and as such its existence somehow benefits the 'elite'? Help me understand the logic here.

Edited by Bows3r, 17 April 2021 - 02:49 PM.

[Squishy- Iv4]

Lionheart2012, on 17 April 2021 - 12:53 PM, said:

Appeal to the majority fallacy. There are specific brawling/wolf pack scenarios were lighter mechs with fewer hardpoints benefit from them. Their range, heat build up, and weight (borne out through the DPS/ton metric) makes them unwieldy for larger 'Mechs with multiple weapon systems.



I play tier 3/2/1 QP and I have played FP. AC2 Annihilators and Maulers are not a thing and would be a disadvantage to the team with them in the drop. Your argument suffers when it relies on statements that are not supported in the player experience. They might be a thing in Comp where the engagement parameters can be anticipated, but not in QP or FP where the engagement parameters are more random (unless you're on a pre-made in FP and everyone has their same prescribed 32 decks. Elitism???)



IS Gauss Rifles are certainly more present than IS AC2s for long range engagement.



This invalidates your appeal to the majority, if it wasn't already a logical fallacy. The UAC5/10 build on the Sleipnir is not a thing. If anything it is a meme build.

https://thecauldron....#_682a7900_CP-S

It sports a 225 engine with a 40.5kph top speed, slower than most Annihilators. It also has single heatsinks because the engine has only nine internal heatsinks and because of the limited space available after the weight savings of Endosteel. The Endosteal can be shed in favor of LFF armor, at a cost of 120 points of armor protection and a ton of ammunition, but then double heatsinks can be mounted. Nevertheless, it is still a hopelessly slow 'Mech. It is not seen in QP, nor in FP.

https://thecauldron....#_f31ab651_CP-S

The Quad UAC5 Sleipnir is much more viable with a top speed of 54.9kph and full armor, but it is a DPS build and much hotter than the Dual Heavy Gauss build. Further the player experience has favored the Quad LB10-X build over the Quad UAC5 because of similar DPS, less heat and better crit chance.

Finally, elitism creeps back in because the Sleipnir is a hero 'Mech, one that new players might be able to buy on sale after doing a year of events. (Or they can get it by purchasing a standard pack and a hero add-on for $35, because it is not purchasable independently). So using this as an example reflects the elitist perspective being offered.



Yes, they may be counterparts, but again of the list you provided, only the Annihilator and Fafnir can mount the UAC5/10 meta in a 2:2 ratio. The Dire Wolf, Kodiak, Mad Cat MkII, and the Rifleman IIC can all mount this meta. The others function better as UAC5 builds, which isn't the meta and again suffer as damage over time builds rather than high alpha builds. And this is not something that can be addressed with mobility quirks because of the size and weight differential of IS UACs and the IS 'Mechs that mount them.

And again, the IS 'Mechs cited are not known in QP and FP for boating IS UACs.



This is were the disagreement lies. The sheer number of tubes that Clan 'Mechs can mount and the volume of fire they can sustain overwhelm the quirked IS LRMs. It is why lines of Trebuchets and Awesomes are not seen and why lines of Nova Cats, Sunspiders, Warhammers, and Supernovae are seen.



....without credible support. Yet, I can credibly demonstrate through their DOR how they are underpowered (even after updating the numbers).



You are forgetting about A/B builds where two weapon groups are fired quickly in succession. The Triple CERPPC Vapor Eagle is a prime example and very prevalent. And the Quad CERPPC Warhawk is not unknown on the battlefield.



First, pinpoint is overemphasized. Yes, it has quite a bit of potential, but then it is an all or nothing potential; misjudge and you either miss completely or miss the desired component. Damage over time may have reduced potential, but burst fire and laser tracing allow for adjustment during discharge. The prevalence of A/B builds, as discussed above, also would tend to undermine the importance of pinpoint in a single alpha, especially as the A shot provides feedback for aiming the B shot.

Second, you are missing the argument about the IS MPL. Based on Cauldron numbers, two IS MPLs still do more damage, at greater heat efficiency, at the same range, and for two fewer tons than a single SNPPC. The Snub-Nose PPC does not have space to flourish when competing against both the LPPC, with no minimum range, and the IS MPL.

It seems based off of the points you are making, all of your claims are based off of experience and are entitled to being wrong. Specifically your knowledge about mechlabbing. If you don't have a comprehensive understanding of the innerworkings of the mech lab, I really don't think you have any basis to lecture Krasnopesky off of. I sincerely hope you realize that this is an argument you cannot win, for you never had a considerable point in the first place. I also think you claim a considerable amount of elitism on an update designed to reduce the gap of viability between mechs which would in turn reduce elitism. The entire point of this patch is to make almost all weapons viable, yet you claim to some degree the opposite. Almost all of the rock paper scissors engagements you described about these weapon systems are out dated and are out of touch with the actual meta of the game. You are quite simply arguing a point about this patch that is almost entirely irrelevant to how the weapon changes will affect the game state.

Edited by Squishy- IV4, 17 April 2021 - 02:59 PM.

[DAEDALOS513]

dario03, on 17 April 2021 - 01:33 PM, said:

Commando, Urbie, Blackjack, Crab, Dervish, Hellspawn, Phoenix Hawk, Catapult, Quickdraw can all also run mpl as their main weapon and do well. There are other mechs that can use them in combination with other weapons like srms and heavy gauss to do well with. There are also other mechs like the Jenner and Firestarter that would do well with them compared to other options, but the mech itself is outclassed by similar mechs.

denAirwalkerrr, on 17 April 2021 - 01:31 PM, said:

5-6MPL meta:
COM-TDK
UM-K9
PNT-9R
WLF-(literally all of them)
CDA-2A
CDA-2B
VL-5T
BJ-1DC
HSN-7D2
PXH-2
VND-1R
CRB-20
CRB-27
CRB-27B
CRB-27SL
UZL-6P
GRF-1E
CPLT-J

Suplementary 4-6 in addition to other weapons:
CHP-1N2
CHP-3N
RFL-3N
RGH-3A
TDR-5SS
TDR-5S-T
GHR-5H
GHR-5N
WHM-(literally all of them)
BL-(literally all of them)
MAD-BH2
MAD-5M
AWS-8Q
CRG-1A1
BLR-1G
BLR-3M
STK-(literally all of them)
AS7-(literally all of them)
FNR 3 to 5 with 2xHGR
ANH 5 to 6 with 2xHGR

Wow you guys listed alot of mechs.. must make it true. Unfortunately the truth is you rarely see half if not most of those mechs boating MP's.. Just because you can run them on all those mechs doesn't make the weapon strong.. to be strong a weapon/mech has to perform consistently well. Awesome? Black jack? Quickdraw? Stalker? bahahahah I've rarely seen most of those mechs in your list boating MP's.. why? Because they will get rekt at range (and not snipe range.. cuz all you need is 400m to own them).

Like I said, it's far from OP when if you wanna run MP's you need a mech that can either flee or have broken tanky hit boxes (see urbie, vulcan, etc) .. otherwise your mixing real life with comp life. Or you need some serious backup weapons..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 17 April 2021 - 03:32 PM.

[cougurt]

DAEDALOS513, on 17 April 2021 - 03:24 PM, said:

Wow you guys listed alot of mechs.. must make it true. Unfortunately the truth is you rarely see half if not most of those mechs boating MP's.. Just because you can run them on all those mechs doesn't make the weapon strong.. to be strong a weapon/mech has to perform consistently well. Awesome? Black jack? Quickdraw? Stalker? bahahahah I've rarely seen most of those mechs boating MP's.. why? Because they will get rekt at range (and not snipe range.. cuz all you need is 400m to own them).

Like I said, if you wanna run MP's you need a mech that can flee or have broken tanky hit boxes (see urbie, vulcan, etc) .. otherwise your mixing real life with comp life. Or you need some serious backup weapons..

my MPL top dog has a 3.94 WLR with over 400 matches (almost exclusively solo QP), only slightly worse than my vulcan. while it's moderately fast by IS heavy standards, it doesn't exactly meet your criteria. IS MPLs are quite strong on almost anything with enough hardpoints and the tonnage to fit them, and they're versatile enough to use effectively as a primary weapon or as a supplement to large ballistics or missiles.

[Lionheart2012]

Yondu Udonta, on 17 April 2021 - 01:45 PM, said:

I highly suggest that you improve your understanding of the game before making claims of elitism, as this mechbuilding that you have displayed in this post has shown nothing but abject incompetency. This is akin to debating with an entire scientific community that the Earth is flat instead of being spherical.

Let me demonstrate a prime tenant of the scientific process, the falsifiable theory. That is, show me your better build....

Edited by Lionheart2012, 17 April 2021 - 06:55 PM.

[Lionheart2012]

Squishy- IV4, on 17 April 2021 - 02:58 PM, said:

It seems based off of the points you are making, all of your claims are based off of experience and are entitled to being wrong. Specifically your knowledge about mechlabbing. If you don't have a comprehensive understanding of the innerworkings of the mech lab, I really don't think you have any basis to lecture Krasnopesky off of. I sincerely hope you realize that this is an argument you cannot win, for you never had a considerable point in the first place. I also think you claim a considerable amount of elitism on an update designed to reduce the gap of viability between mechs which would in turn reduce elitism. The entire point of this patch is to make almost all weapons viable, yet you claim to some degree the opposite. Almost all of the rock paper scissors engagements you described about these weapon systems are out dated and are out of touch with the actual meta of the game. You are quite simply arguing a point about this patch that is almost entirely irrelevant to how the weapon changes will affect the game state.

Piling on, but still, show me your better builds and your data. All we have here is mere assertion.

Edited by Lionheart2012, 17 April 2021 - 07:10 PM.

[dario03]

DAEDALOS513, on 17 April 2021 - 03:24 PM, said:

Wow you guys listed alot of mechs.. must make it true. Unfortunately the truth is you rarely see half if not most of those mechs boating MP's.. Just because you can run them on all those mechs doesn't make the weapon strong.. to be strong a weapon/mech has to perform consistently well. Awesome? Black jack? Quickdraw? Stalker? bahahahah I've rarely seen most of those mechs in your list boating MP's.. why? Because they will get rekt at range (and not snipe range.. cuz all you need is 400m to own them).

Like I said, it's far from OP when if you wanna run MP's you need a mech that can either flee or have broken tanky hit boxes (see urbie, vulcan, etc) .. otherwise your mixing real life with comp life. Or you need some serious backup weapons..

So if we double the dps of mpl it wouldn't be op because it can't shoot out to 2k range?

Lionheart2012, on 17 April 2021 - 06:52 PM, said:

Let me demonstrate a prime tenant of the scientific process, the falsifiable theory. That is, show me your better build....

https://thecauldron....#_cce98980_CP-S

armor/ammo to flavor but basically just go 250+ engine and dhs.

[Lionheart2012]

MyriadDigits, on 17 April 2021 - 01:50 PM, said:

https://thecauldron....#_af4ad423_CP-S looks like you dropped your STD260 there buddy.

I didn't miss it. you shaved off too much armor. I'll be aiming for your legs in the future....

[Lionheart2012]

Bows3r, on 17 April 2021 - 02:45 PM, said:

If you have supposedly watched high level comp, I find it extremely difficult you would come to that conclusion. Because as far as I'm aware, UAC's, IS-MPL (most prominently on light mechs and wolfpacks but sometimes seen on full decks who IS-MPL rush), and C-ERPPC's. Last I checked, the only Gauss Rifles used in competitive are Heavy Gauss rifles (and occasionally gauss vom on the deathstrike), because spoiler alert, Gauss Rifles do not have enough range to even be used as 'long' range weapons, not even matching the range of un-quirked IS-ERLL's.

Thanks for making my point about how AC/2s are not prominent in high level comp play. My point was not about Gauss Rifles, other than they are more common than AC/2s.

Bows3r, on 17 April 2021 - 02:45 PM, said:

Okay, what? So acknowledging a problem with a phenomenon in the game at the moment is 'elitist? Or are you simply proposing it doesn't even exist so it's not worth talking about? Or perhaps are you proposing that NASCAR doesn't affect gameplay significantly, and as such its existence somehow benefits the 'elite'? Help me understand the logic here.

It's not that it is a "problem" but a reality of how play is done. And trying to "change" this by adjusting weapon values, scale, quirks, and mobility is a fools errand. It is a sign of the elitism based on your experience in Comp play, where strategies are developed from preset understandings of roles and builds. QP is more random than this.

[Lionheart2012]

dario03, on 17 April 2021 - 06:58 PM, said:

https://thecauldron....#_cce98980_CP-S

armor/ammo to flavor but basically just go 250+ engine and dhs.

At 45kph it possibly as slow and with less armor than an Annihilator. These are not used in QP or FP.