704 replies to this topic

[MechTech Dragoon]

You guys talk about weapon diversity but every other weapon is talking about boating.

All in all it looks interesting, but the TTK is going to suffer until we get rescale because of pretty well every weapon getting a boost.

[Gas Guzzler]

Stink Bug, on 02 April 2021 - 05:47 AM, said:

Got some reservations with some of the changes (looks like return of deathstrike and HLL metabringer spam?) and if I'm reading correctly quad light gauss assaults will now be spitting 40 pinpoint alphas from across the map but for the most part it looks like positive changes. And if not, we'll adapt. Confused behind the rationale for Clan Gauss though:


I understand buffing health but making it near identical to IS Gauss which is 3 tons and 1 crit slot bigger? Don't think that's worth a paltry 0.25 sec cooldown reduction.

They will look at it, there was already a discussion about decreasing IS Gauss cooldown to 4.25-4.5 so it is being socialized.

[Rydiak Randborir]

YES! My mech-body is ready. Great work to all involved, and special thanks to Daeron and Matt for their involvement with the community. I hope this is the start of something beautiful.

[w0qj]

Heard that the MWO Comp 2020 competition that IS side won, and that the general consensus is that the IS weapons is simply better (and IS mechs more durable).

Perhaps this is the start of making the Clan side slightly stronger, so as to be a legitimate rival to its IS counterparts...

cougurt, on 01 April 2021 - 08:56 PM, said:

did you not notice the multitude of buffs to other clan weapon systems? if anything clans should be stronger almost across the board. the CERPPC is already a top tier weapon and will likely remain so. ATMs lose a bit of short range damage but don't get shut down as hard by AMS, which should make them a bit less frustrating for both the ATM user and those on the receiving end.

[A21B]

it seems like these changes are more of a personal wish list for a few people rather then a fair weapons balance. making the heavy gauss effective at over 800 meters is not balance, are you going to do the same for ac 20's? effective range 550 meters? you just turned the most powerfull gun in the game to a sniper rifle capable of a head shot kill from across the map. well done

EDIT my mistake i was looking at the regular gauss and saw heavy below it......**** happens when you get old

Edited by A21B, 02 April 2021 - 10:09 AM.

[Serenna187]

Clan pulse and atm changes seem a little weird but will see how it plays out.Shells per burst on clan uacs remain unchanged aka inferior to is counterparts,come on.Will be honest,those changes all in all seem almost too good to be true

[Jack Shayu Walker]

A21B, on 02 April 2021 - 09:23 AM, said:

it seems like these changes are more of a personal wish list for a few people rather then a fair weapons balance. making the heavy gauss effective at over 800 meters is not balance, are you going to do the same for ac 20's? effective range 550 meters? you just turned the most powerfull gun in the game to a sniper rifle capable of a head shot kill from across the map. well done

Uuuh... heavy gauss just got a health boost and nothing else.

[mcmatthew]

A21B, on 02 April 2021 - 09:23 AM, said:

it seems like these changes are more of a personal wish list for a few people rather then a fair weapons balance. making the heavy gauss effective at over 800 meters is not balance, are you going to do the same for ac 20's? effective range 550 meters? you just turned the most powerfull gun in the game to a sniper rifle capable of a head shot kill from across the map. well done

They only changed the heavy gauss’s weapon health, the optimal range is still 220 meters. And they did make ac/20 more effective at range with higher velocity.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Serenna187, on 02 April 2021 - 09:28 AM, said:

Clan pulse and atm changes seem a little weird but will see how it plays out.Shells per burst on clan uacs remain unchanged aka inferior to is counterparts,come on.Will be honest,those changes all in all seem almost too good to be true

Yeah but Clan UACs are like significantly lighter.

[G 4 R R E T]

A21B, on 02 April 2021 - 09:23 AM, said:

it seems like these changes are more of a personal wish list for a few people rather then a fair weapons balance. making the heavy gauss effective at over 800 meters is not balance, are you going to do the same for ac 20's? effective range 550 meters? you just turned the most powerfull gun in the game to a sniper rifle capable of a head shot kill from across the map. well done

The only change to heavy gauss i see is an increase in weapon health, not range?

[Valdarion Silarius]

James Hawker, on 01 April 2021 - 09:55 PM, said:

Rifleman and Rifleman IIC have the same issue. Amusingly, the Hunchback doesn't, to my knowledge. But I don't see them often enough to tell, and I'm not buying an IS Hunchie to compare to my meme-tier IIC just yet.

Both the IS Rifleman and Rifleman IIC have range quirks and high arm mounts that other mechs in it's weight category would absolutely kill for. They are meant to be played as long range fire support mechs, and if you take them out of their intended roles IE short range brawlers then you are going to have a bad time with them. If you are going to compare tech bases I think a better comparison would be the Jagermech vs the Rifleman IIC, but both are still completely different mechs with similar battlefield roles.

Also, I fail to understand how the Hunchback IIC is meme tier since from my experience have been consistently strong mechs for its high hardpoints and strong support role.

Heavy Money, on 01 April 2021 - 10:16 PM, said:

And I don't think that Rifleman comparison is going to support your argument either, considering that the Rifleman is not very good, and the IIC is quite good. So out of the 3 mechs you chose to compare the IS vs Clan versions (Orion, Rifleman, Hunchback), 1 supports what you're saying, one is neutral as you say, and the other is the opposite of your original example.

It isn't, but I would like the Rifleman IIC to stay under PGI's radar with their notorious bad track record of nerfing mechs into the ground. I think a better term would be 'balanced' since the engine cap on many of the variants limit it in NASCAR, while the Jagermech and IS Rifleman do not have the engine cap problem. Don't get me wrong it's a great mech, but I really hope PGI isn't waiting to hit the damn thing like a pinata with these implemented changes.

[Serenna187]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 02 April 2021 - 09:31 AM, said:

Yeah but Clan UACs are like significantly lighter.

and in turn omnimechs,aka most clan mechs,have typicly less available tonnage and slots to even it out..

[FoxnEagle]

8 LPPC Awesome/Thunderbolt incoming!!! Muahahahaha, chainfire all day.

I am slightly worried about Gauss changes. Anyone here old enough to remember when and WHY their range was nerfed previously? (at least they don't partially ignore armor and hit structure still) I think we're going to have a repeat of history where three Assaults each with three Gauss just stand on one side of the map and obliterate anything that comes into view with a single volley...

Also, hoo-boy are we gonna need that quirk pass after these changes. Increased PPC velocity with Panthers giving 40% PPC velocity, 10-20% Energy Range, 10-20% Cooldown, and (-10)-(-20)% Heat PLUS quirks and maybe a 1 Ton Comp PLUS jump jets is going to turn them into infinite ammo sniper poptart mechs. I have mine ready

Edited by FoxnEagle, 02 April 2021 - 09:48 AM.

[Serenna187]

two ac20 still can't be fired together for IS? aight...

[NeckWorrier]

Grimmechs is going to have their work cut out for them!

[Heavy Money]

James Hawker, on 02 April 2021 - 07:46 AM, said:

I took a break to eat a steak, relax, and clear my head. But I stand by what I said. The Rifleman IIC is arguably a side-grade at best, as it brings jumpjets to the table as well as a different set of configurations. At the cost of making it's CT profile larger, and retaining weaker overall armor compared to the IS variant which is grounded, but potentially faster.

The RFL-IIC has more armor than the Rifleman. 422 vs 402. It also brings 50% more weapons. Its offensive output is comparable to an assault mech. Its size and agility are worse, but that doesn't mean much at long range. The Rifleman is one of the weaker heavies in the game. The Rifleman IIC has multiple strong variants. The RFL-IIC-2 6xAC2 build is one of the highest rated in the game.

James Hawker, on 02 April 2021 - 07:46 AM, said:

Look. I called it in my first post, I'm getting meme'd and mocked for what I said. But I'm genuinely not trying to complain that the game is imbalanced, or that PGI has some repressed bias they're pretending to hide. (This is where I say 'they do that well enough themselves, but I won't.) They are buffing Clan tech to be more in-line with IS platforms, and I'm grateful for it. The problem I'm seeing is that the IS are getting even more buffs that they probably shouldn't have gotten until after this patch's numbers have been rolled out, like HSL increases to mainline weapon platforms, or ER Large Laser range buffs which are only going to make them *more* niche on mechs that have quirks for them, something PGI said they were trying to avoid... Or at least, I thought they did. They're saying they want to promote the diversity between Clan and IS mechs with the SSRM changes on one hand, then giving the IS weightless CASE for their arms on the other "Because the Clans have it." These two concepts conflict, either bring the gap closer together or widen it out and make each faction play distinct from the other without being inherently worse. You can't have both.

I'm not saying you are wrong to be concerned about Clan vs IS balance, just that your examples show a lack of understanding. Also I think the main reason IS case is getting buffed is because it doesn't get used at all. Clan case only gets used because its built in for free.

Personally, I'd like to see Clans get their agility fixed. Remember that one of the main ways that IS and Clans have been balanced so far is with Clan's getting their agility destroyed, especially on heavy and assault mechs. If IS gets some buffs, that would hopefully allow this to be changed.

[Pixo]

Would like to see the min rage go away for IS-PPC too but can use LPPC which will be better for my play stile.
Also happy that the proposed no heat penalty for LPPCs didnt go through.
40 alpha every 3 seconds with no ammo limit and no chargeup sounds too good.
Hope that the agility and rescale will come soon.

[CFC Conky]

The new changes will def make the game more interesting for me, but I'm still not convinced they will help with the new player experience.

Raising the heat scale limit on some weapons like the LL won't help you very much if you are running an unskilled mech and are trying to learn the game.

That said, by all means let's test it all out and see what happens.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[Krasnopesky]

CFC Conky, on 02 April 2021 - 10:42 AM, said:

The new changes will def make the game more interesting for me, but I'm still not convinced they will help with the new player experience.

Raising the heat scale limit on some weapons like the LL won't help you very much if you are running an unskilled mech and are trying to learn the game.

That said, by all means let's test it all out and see what happens.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

These changes aren't designed specifically to help with the new player experience (NPE). They are designed to make more weapons viable and fun to use for everyone.

NPE improvements are sorely needed, but PGI need to implement those sort of changes. Things like an expanded tutorial, increased rewards, refined skill tree, general UI improvements etc etc are all needed but outside the scope that we at the Cauldron can deliver.

[Reno Blade]

TheCaptainJZ, on 01 April 2021 - 09:19 PM, said:

Yeah, that's what's been said.
I suppose what I mean is, I hope the Cauldron is not too biased on the perspectives of it's own members. Even the casuals within the group are probably experienced players who know the game really well. But there are other players who play this game who might have other ideas and perspectives. Whether accurate or not, I still have the impression the Cauldron is led by comp players.

Personally, I think I'd like a global damage and cooldown nerf across the board to increase TTK. We have introduced more and more weapons and mechs capable of firing off higher and higher alphas. This is power creep. But the majority of the player base always wants to buff weak weapons instead of nerfing powerful ones. But you can achieve balance by nerfing things too. The meta is UAC weapons? That means they're too powerful. Nerf them. Now suddenly, lasers are more viable. Or something else. I feel like those that play the meta refuse to give up their power so they'd rather make it so everyone else can kill things faster instead of making it so they're just the ones that can kill things slower. I want things to die slower, like they used to. We used to think that 40 damage alphas were too high so ghost heat was added to kick in about that point. Now, we're comfortable with 60 damage alphas? That'll cripple or kill a medium mech in one shot. To me, I'd like to be able to run around a little bit and take hits but not die immediately from 2 mechs firing at me at once, but I guess that's just me.

MechTech Dragoon, on 02 April 2021 - 08:24 AM, said:

You guys talk about weapon diversity but every other weapon is talking about boating.

All in all it looks interesting, but the TTK is going to suffer until we get rescale because of pretty well every weapon getting a boost.

Overall great patch notes, but some caveats, as others already mentioned.

The battlefield might be leveled a bit more evenly, but overall TTK will definitely go DOWN (everyone will kill/die faster)!
No twisting with better agility can compensate for increased Ghost Heat groups and lower-heat/higher-dps boating.

There should still be some increase in global cooldown overall and increase in structure overall, to increase importance of all game aspects other than aiming.
This is where the march patch had SOME interesting aspects, the high-dmg&high-heat PPC/Gauss tried to give single weapons more punch while limiting boating (because of heat) a bit.
It was just not working out good enough, because GhostHeat is 0.5s only and you can even improve boating (e.g. 6 PPCs shot in pairs)...

I am looking forward to the patch and the changed gameplay, but i think we will need more survival buffs to keep TTK in a decent state.