704 replies to this topic

[dario03]

Lionheart2012, on 17 April 2021 - 07:15 PM, said:

At 45kph it possibly as slow and with less armor than an Annihilator. These are not used in QP or FP.

You asked for a better build, I linked one. You can make it faster if you want, just have to decide on how much ammo and armor shaving you want.

And are you saying this build or Annis aren't used in qp/fp?

[John Bronco]

Lionheart2012, on 17 April 2021 - 07:15 PM, said:

At 45kph it possibly as slow and with less armor than an Annihilator. These are not used in QP or FP.

Funny I use that 'Clops nearly every time I play FP. Mine does go 48 though.

I've also played it in QP and comp.

Edited by John Bronco, 17 April 2021 - 07:31 PM.

[Lionheart2012]

dario03, on 17 April 2021 - 07:23 PM, said:

You asked for a better build, I linked one. You can make it faster if you want, just have to decide on how much ammo and armor shaving you want.

And are you saying this build or Annis aren't used in qp/fp?

I can shave more armor and more ammo and make the CP-S less effective. And I am suggesting that the UAC5/10 CP-S is not used in FP/QP for these reasons, not enough armor, not enough speed and comparatively better options like the dual HGauss or quad LB10-X.

And to dovetail this back into the main point, because IS UACs are so much heavier and larger, causing limitations on where they can be deployed, they deserve a cool down buff to put them in better competition, not superior to, Clan UACs.

John Bronco, on 17 April 2021 - 07:29 PM, said:

Funny I use that 'Clops nearly every time I play FP. Mine does go 48 though.

Then I am coming for you with my LB10-Xs, with better range against your low armor.

[John Bronco]

Lionheart2012, on 17 April 2021 - 07:31 PM, said:

Then I am coming for you with my LB10-Xs, with better range against your low armor.

I'm sorry, you think you're going to outtrade a UAC5/10 mech at range with LB10s?

Bruh...you should just stop

[MyriadDigits]

Lionheart2012, on 17 April 2021 - 07:31 PM, said:

Then I am coming for you with my LB10-Xs, with better range against your low armor.

LB10 trying to trade with UAC5/10 at range is comedy.

Also shielding legs is super duper easy, shaves like the build I posted aren't even the most dramatic thing somebody can get away with.

[GaelicWolf]

[Antares102]

justcallme A S H, on 17 April 2021 - 12:02 PM, said:

Your statements have flip-flopped quite a bit the last few weeks. It would appear you just wanted to be the contrarian for the sake of it.

End or the day, the change is coming and it's here is a couple of days.

Yondu Udonta, on 17 April 2021 - 01:45 PM, said:

This is akin to debating with an entire scientific community that the Earth is flat instead of being spherical.

I stopped depating DAEDALOS513 a few pages ago.
While Lionheart2012 made an extensive and interesting proposal DAEDALOS513 just argues nonsense (at least 8 pages ago) with Ebon builds wasting 6.5 tons, contradicting himself with the 4x HML on his Hellbringer and claiming to define his own "meta".
Now Lionheart2012 just wants to "defeat" you with eloquent persistance, while lacking the experience of Cauldron guys and "invalidating" your arguments with wall-of-texts.

Depating flat earthers is the best analogy IMO. It's just pointless.
I think these guys simply see the debate with you as entertainment.

justcallme A S H said it in another thread.
You cannot make everybody happy.
I presume these two fall in that category.

[Mal Bolge]

All these claims of elitism are easy to disprove. It stems from being part of a group of individuals (in this case the cauldron, or comp players), and when dealing with issues, all those individuals are right while everyone outside of the group are wrong. To disprove this claim once and for all, you can just list all the instances where you have taken feedback from people outside this group, and made adjustments to the balance sheet.

I don't personally agree with every single change the Cauldron propose, but I never expected to either. At the end of the day, the Cauldron has done a great amount of work that will benefit all of us. And remember that this is done on their free time, they are not getting paid for this effort.

In my opinion, whether some individuals think the Cauldron are elitist or not is irrelevant. It does not diminish the work they are doing for this community in any way.

[Brauer]

QKD-5K with 6mpls served me well in Worlds last year and does reasonably well in QP as well. It's not that hard to get into mpl range most of the time in QP especially and iirc the QKD goes around 90-97kph which is plenty fast.

[denAirwalkerrr]

DAEDALOS513, on 17 April 2021 - 03:24 PM, said:

Wow you guys listed alot of mechs.. must make it true. Unfortunately the truth is you rarely see half if not most of those mechs boating MP's.. Just because you can run them on all those mechs doesn't make the weapon strong.. to be strong a weapon/mech has to perform consistently well. Awesome? Black jack? Quickdraw? Stalker? bahahahah I've rarely seen most of those mechs in your list boating MP's.. why? Because they will get rekt at range (and not snipe range.. cuz all you need is 400m to own them).

Like I said, it's far from OP when if you wanna run MP's you need a mech that can either flee or have broken tanky hit boxes (see urbie, vulcan, etc) .. otherwise your mixing real life with comp life. Or you need some serious backup weapons..

https://thecauldron....aa67fc0d_AWS-8Q
https://thecauldron....bd366312_BJ-1DC
https://thecauldron....d2a3bcf9_QKD-5K
https://thecauldron....d094691c_STK-3F
https://thecauldron....38b4617_STK-3FB

[DAEDALOS513]

cougurt, on 17 April 2021 - 04:15 PM, said:

my MPL top dog has a 3.94 WLR with over 400 matches (almost exclusively solo QP), only slightly worse than my vulcan. while it's moderately fast by IS heavy standards, it doesn't exactly meet your criteria. IS MPLs are quite strong on almost anything with enough hardpoints and the tonnage to fit them, and they're versatile enough to use effectively as a primary weapon or as a supplement to large ballistics or missiles.

If mp's were so good why do we hardly see them in qp/fp.. ? Lord knows most players (good and bad) love to exploit broken/strong weapons. Just saw a champion boating mp's.. barely broke 300.. bleah

You might be the exception but in most cases anyone boating mp's does mediocre.. unless in broken mechs like vulcan or k9.. maybe even cicada and uzie cuz these are able to flee. Due to their heat and limited range, mp's are NOT versatile.. not sure how you can think otherwise.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 18 April 2021 - 10:16 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Antares102, on 17 April 2021 - 10:35 PM, said:

I stopped depating DAEDALOS513 a few pages ago.
While Lionheart2012 made an extensive and interesting proposal DAEDALOS513 just argues nonsense (at least 8 pages ago) with Ebon builds wasting 6.5 tons, contradicting himself with the 4x HML on his Hellbringer and claiming to define his own "meta".
Now Lionheart2012 just wants to "defeat" you with eloquent persistance, while lacking the experience of Cauldron guys and "invalidating" your arguments with wall-of-texts.

Depating flat earthers is the best analogy IMO. It's just pointless.
I think these guys simply see the debate with you as entertainment.

justcallme A S H said it in another thread.
You cannot make everybody happy.
I presume these two fall in that category.

Sorry if I don't have OCD and have to use up all my tonnage to feel like I have a viable build.. do you also build symmetrically too? Absolutely nothing was wrong with the ebon build .. it's all in your head.

Still not sure what you're debating about my hbr build..

Who is a flatearther? Why even bring that up unless you have nothing better to bring to the conversation? Just weakens you and anybody else that agree's with you.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 18 April 2021 - 10:16 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

denAirwalkerrr, on 18 April 2021 - 05:48 AM, said:

https://thecauldron....aa67fc0d_AWS-8Q
https://thecauldron....bd366312_BJ-1DC
https://thecauldron....d2a3bcf9_QKD-5K
https://thecauldron....d094691c_STK-3F
https://thecauldron....38b4617_STK-3FB

The awesome's main weapons are heavy peeps.. not relevant.
The black jack will get rekt.. before having a chance to engage.. it's sooo squishy.. might have worked in the olden days.
Without range quirks the quickdraw will not perform consistently enough.. 6mp too weak. It's tankiness and jets might make mps work some of the time..
Stalker builds have some serious backup weapons.. the mrm build may be more viable due to added range.

Look, I'm not saying MP's aren't viable I'm just saying they aren't strong, especially on their own, except on a small handful of mechs.

[Lionheart2012]

John Bronco, on 17 April 2021 - 07:35 PM, said:

I'm sorry, you think you're going to outtrade a UAC5/10 mech at range with LB10s?

Bruh...you should just stop

You should explain why then the quad LB10-X is a more prevalent build then. Bruh...

And all this does is further demonstrate the elitism. Rarified experience to determine how the majority play. It seems the Cauldron must have a minor point on which to attempt to discredit rather than looking at the body of the work critically, and embracing commentary from a casual who has been playing for over 8 years. If I am not Galileo going up against the othodoxy....

[Lionheart2012]

MyriadDigits, on 17 April 2021 - 08:25 PM, said:

LB10 trying to trade with UAC5/10 at range is comedy.

Also shielding legs is super duper easy, shaves like the build I posted aren't even the most dramatic thing somebody can get away with.

See you Friday then!!!

[Lionheart2012]

Antares102, on 17 April 2021 - 10:35 PM, said:

I stopped depating DAEDALOS513 a few pages ago.
While Lionheart2012 made an extensive and interesting proposal DAEDALOS513 just argues nonsense (at least 8 pages ago) with Ebon builds wasting 6.5 tons, contradicting himself with the 4x HML on his Hellbringer and claiming to define his own "meta".
Now Lionheart2012 just wants to "defeat" you with eloquent persistance, while lacking the experience of Cauldron guys and "invalidating" your arguments with wall-of-texts.

Depating flat earthers is the best analogy IMO. It's just pointless.
I think these guys simply see the debate with you as entertainment.

justcallme A S H said it in another thread.
You cannot make everybody happy.
I presume these two fall in that category.

Thank you for the play-by-play. Did you want to change your avatar to Howard Cosell?

No, it's not defeating by walls of text. It would be more desirable to invited into the discussion, rather than be dismissed flatly without evidence from a group that is clearly dominated by elite players. When I have drawn Bauer, Bowser, Yondu, and ASH to quash the conversation, it is not a flat earth analogy, but rather Galileo going up against the orthodoxy.

[Lionheart2012]

GaelicWolf, on 17 April 2021 - 10:02 PM, said:

Get the big tub with extra butter.... MMMMMMMmmmmmmmmm!!!!!

[MyriadDigits]

Lionheart2012, on 18 April 2021 - 10:41 AM, said:

You should explain why then the quad LB10-X is a more prevalent build then. Bruh...

To get it out of the way immediately, regardless of whether or not UAC5/10 or 4LB10 is more prevalent, hardly anybody is trying to use 4LB10 for the role the UAC5/10 build is used for. Its not really an equivalent comparison.

To actually answer your question however, its probably because 4LB10 is substantially colder, doesn't contend with jamming, and because big shotguns feel fun to shoot.

Lionheart2012, on 18 April 2021 - 10:41 AM, said:

And all this does is further demonstrate the elitism. Rarified experience to determine how the majority play. It seems the Cauldron must have a minor point on which to attempt to discredit rather than looking at the body of the work critically, and embracing commentary from a casual who has been playing for over 8 years. If I am not Galileo going up against the othodoxy....

If you pay attention to the responses of actual Cauldron members, you'll see its precisely the opposite of what you're claiming. Krasnopesky alone has been very diligent in responding to feedback regarding Cauldron changes. Doesn't mean they'll go through with every suggestion made, but it's just flat out false to claim they aren't considering every possible perspective with this.

[Brauer]

DAEDALOS513, on 18 April 2021 - 10:29 AM, said:

The awesome's main weapons are heavy peeps.. not relevant.
The black jack will get rekt.. before having a chance to engage.. it's sooo squishy.. might have worked in the olden days.
Without range quirks the quickdraw will not perform consistently enough.. 6mp too weak. It's tankiness and jets might make mps work some of the time..
Stalker builds have some serious backup weapons.. the mrm build may be more viable due to added range.

Look, I'm not saying MP's aren't viable I'm just saying they aren't strong, especially on their own, except on a small handful of mechs.

IS mpls have been a top tier meta weapon in all game modes for ages. The BJ still works fine. The QKD is good. Stuff like the K9, VL-5T, WLF, and PXH are of course among the best MPL mechs, but you've still got mechs like the ASN-101, BJ-3, QKD-6K, DV-6MR, Jester, UZL-6P, and others that do extremely well with them.

[DAEDALOS513]

Brauer, on 18 April 2021 - 11:48 AM, said:

IS mpls have been a top tier meta weapon in all game modes for ages. The BJ still works fine. The QKD is good. Stuff like the K9, VL-5T, WLF, and PXH are of course among the best MPL mechs, but you've still got mechs like the ASN-101, BJ-3, QKD-6K, DV-6MR, Jester, UZL-6P, and others that do extremely well with them.

I'll let you know when I see one do better than average in qp.. and I'm not talking about the broken mechs that make MP's work by virtue of their crutchiness.. like some of the ones you mentioned..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 18 April 2021 - 12:12 PM.