117 replies to this topic

[Ignatius Audene]

Hiho. Was theoriecrafting a bit with the anounched weapon changes. Then i found the new IS streak values and rly dont understand the intended result. Just plain cooldown nerv?
IS Streaks where not rly good lately, and without a range ,heat, spread... change, that is just a plain nerv. When mostly all weapons got buffed?

I dont agree with all changes, but i simply dont understand this one. Any reasons?

[FupDup]

Yeah, the patch note reasoning really doesn't line up with the actual result that happened. They said they wanna make Streaks have a more flat performance curve in terms of how they fare vs. different weight classes, but just a straight cooldown nerf with no other changes doesn't do anything of the sort. They're still a light mech counter for the aim-impaired, but just weaker now.

I really hate MWO's Streak design but even I can see that just a straight nerf is unfair to a weapon that doesn't even get used by anyone (Clan Streaks see some use, but IS ones not so much).

To actually fix the feast or famine thing would require changing the way that lock-on missile targeting works, which seems pretty unlikely when we've only got like 4 devs working on the game right now.

[Meep Meep]

Streaks biggest issue is that they spread out to hit each component so that even boating them just sandblasts the more armored mechs. This isn't a issue vs lights due to the weak armor and why streak boats are the natural counter to lights. But thats a bit of a niche role to fill and if you load into a match with no lights you are kinda a waste. Srm bombing is far more useful if less effective vs nimble lights.

[RickySpanish]

Tuning them was probably necessary to make close range weapons more viable on Lights.

[ShiverMeRivets]

IS streaks are very bad when comparing to cSSRM. The significant range difference makes all the difference.

Against lights you don’t want DPS - they will run into cover or behind you. What you really want is a big alpha to whack them when they are not ready for it. Range allows you catch them unaware. Range also allows you to poptart the streaks on an un suspecting light that is not aware of your presence. DPS is important only against well armored opponents where you need numerous volleys to kill them.

To “balance” the cooldown nerf, give IS streaks more range so they are at least more effective in their main role.

Edited by ShiverMeRivets, 07 April 2021 - 05:36 AM.

[Dogstar]

What we need is a wider lock on cone for SSRMs, when they changed the LRM lock on a while ago it also applied to streaks making it much more difficult to use them. If the lock on for streaks was the same wide angle it was before the LRM changes then they'd be relatively easy to use and make a decent weapon, but right now they're dismal as you need to buy into the sensors skill tree to make them viable

[Nightbird]

lol

[Alexandros]

IS Streak SRMs (being my favorite weapon along with plain SMRs) are the most nerfed weapon in the game already. Adding a whole second on the cool down will put the final nail in the coffin. There arent many players that rely whole builds on them ( I see others usually put is a supplementary self defense vs lights ) So they dont pose a threat to the "cauldron" balance as they are now.

[Grus]

Wait. You're serious? IS streaks are way superior to clans . Way less spread so they actually deal damage worth a damn.

[GuavaPastry]

Streaks just shouldn't exist. They add nothing positive to the game.

Streaks are at their best when a light is too evasive to hit with normal weapons but too close for conventional guided missiles to work and your team is too spread out or doesn't have the presence of mind to cover each other from range. The person who uses streaks gimps themselves against anything that isn't a light mech and would be better served if they learned to play without them. They punish high skill, high risk, coordinated team play and favor low skill, safe solo play.

Edited by GuavaPastry, 07 April 2021 - 08:10 AM.

[Nightbird]

Grus, on 07 April 2021 - 07:13 AM, said:

Wait. You're serious? IS streaks are way superior to clans . Way less spread so they actually deal damage worth a damn.

That's pretty amazing info given streaks don't even have a spread stat and randomly target components regardless the size of the target...

[East Indy]

I like to screw around in a 3x S-SRM-6 Griffin 1N, and have Streaks as secondary on a couple facetime builds. Other than that, I rarely see other players running the weapons, and Inner Sphere weight limitations certainly don't encourage boating like you see on Huntsmans (and at one point, Stormcrows). Still, at the same time the cooldown nerf seems unnecessary it's not too significant. Like, 15%? I'm usually reacquiring outside of the nornal cooldown anyway.

[Grus]

Nightbird, on 07 April 2021 - 08:14 AM, said:

That's pretty amazing info given streaks don't even have a spread stat and randomly target components regardless the size of the target...

Then I must have the worst RNG ever because I lost count how many times my ct has been blown out by IS streeks...

[MrTBSC]

I wouldn´t mind streak dumbfire at a higher spread over standart srms .. that would keep their antilight role with locks but give leeway to splash vs heavys and assaults .. i don´t necessarily think focusing the lock on damage more on center and sidetorsos would be a good idea as that could make srms quickly redundant ..

[Parashurama]

Nightbird, on 07 April 2021 - 08:14 AM, said:

That's pretty amazing info given streaks don't even have a spread stat and randomly target components regardless the size of the target...

...even if some of the components are behind cover.


Assuming 4x SSRM6s, most lights can survive two hits because of how spread out the damage is (about 7 damage per component per alpha). Super fast, super armor/structure quirks, or good hit boxes/twisting increases this to three or way more.
That seems fine.

Most of the time lights that are not standing still or have speeds less than 105 kph are taking very little focused damage from laser weapons and the majority of enemies will miss with projective weapons. So comparatively, streaks seem bad for a mech class that mitigates almost all damage sent at it by avoidance. I would not be surprised to see fleas that have had over 2,000 damage worth of weapons fired at it during a match and survive.
Seems fine...?

Most light 'one shots' are good or lucky projectiles shots. Dual heavy gauss to anything. AC20/dual PPCs to an XL. Quad LBX10/AC10s because you stood in front of an assault.
Seems fine.

[GuavaPastry]

Parashurama, on 07 April 2021 - 10:00 AM, said:

Assuming 4x SSRM6s, most lights can survive two hits because of how spread out the damage is (about 7 damage per component per alpha). Super fast, super armor/structure quirks, or good hit boxes/twisting increases this to three or way more.
That seems fine.

1 volley from 4x SSRM6s opens your torsos and effectively takes you out of the game on any light. If it's to the back, it could just 1 shot you.

[Ken Harkin]

I want ONE thing for Streaks. Let them Dead Fire. LRMs dead fire without a lock. ATMs dead fire without a lock. Streaks simply will not fire without a lock which is MORONIC. With the prevalence of not just ECM but STEALTH ARMOR Streaks become the only weapon in the game which is USELESS at every range. It doesn't matter if you have a TC, Beagle, or TAG, those Fleas and Locust are too fast. The TAG can't hold them long enough to overcome stealth. Your only choice is to feed them pieces of your mech and hope someone shoots them off of you.

[Parashurama]

GuavaPastry, on 07 April 2021 - 12:26 PM, said:

1 volley from 4x SSRM6s opens your torsos and effectively takes you out of the game on any light. If it's to the back, it could just 1 shot you.

Four hardpoints and 12/18 tons (plus ammo) of any weapons should have the potential to one shot a light. Especially if you catch them from behind.

Lights can operate better than any other mech class when missing armor.

[Escef]

GuavaPastry, on 07 April 2021 - 12:26 PM, said:

1 volley from 4x SSRM6s opens your torsos and effectively takes you out of the game on any light. If it's to the back, it could just 1 shot you.

I have personally witnessed, on multiple occasions, a Locust, a mother-eating Locust, facetank a full spread of 36 Streaks from a Mad Dog and run away. Now, a more robust light like a Firestarter or Arctic Cheetah? Depending on how the RNG treats you and how armor has been allocated, they can actually tank 2 such volleys without any torso armor breeches (they'll still be heavily damaged, though). If you are going to tell me that those mechs can't tank smaller volleys without armor breeches to the torsos than I have to wonder what numbers you are using. On top of this, with Streak damage going down for clan mechs, I don't see a clan streak boat as anything other than a harasser build going forward.

As for shooting them in the butt, well, yeah, a good solid hit from over 18 tons of weapon systems to the hindquarters has every right to gut a light mech. Are you going to tell me a HPPC+PPC, 3xSnPPC, or a double tap from a UAC20 to the bum-bum shouldn't one-shot a light?

Edited by Escef, 07 April 2021 - 02:23 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 07 April 2021 - 08:14 AM, said:

That's pretty amazing info given streaks don't even have a spread stat and randomly target components regardless the size of the target...

I think he means better weighting in CT.

Although I'm pretty sure that streaks are weighted to go to torso more in the first place.

That being said I honestly would go for Clan Streaks than IS Streaks due to range alone. At that distance, I might as well just go a bit closer for SRM volleys.