259 replies to this topic

[MrTBSC]

Gas Guzzler, on 05 May 2021 - 05:58 PM, said:

Okay captain obvious.

If your target stands still, ANY pinpoint weapon (lasers, auto cannons, ppcs, gauss) is PPFLD. The solution. Don't be a scrub. Move when not in cover.

lasers aren´t PP, they are DoT, these aren´t the lasers from MW 1 to 4 anymore

any DoT build be it f.e. laservomit, Rac vomit, MRM (except MRM 10) boating you will see many players stand still for aiming or adjusting their fire because of the facetime they have to bring, EVEN if you move the PPC+Gaussbuild is more likely to hit a specific component (or miss entirely if the aim is bad) but with about any DoT you are simply more likely to spread the damage than focus it on one component

Edited by MrTBSC, 05 May 2021 - 11:12 PM.

[TheStranger]

When will you guys stopping buffing the **** out of IS mechs?

[Khobai]

Wid1046, on 05 May 2021 - 07:41 PM, said:

I can't remember who said it, but one of the Cauldron members mentioned that certain mechs like the Jagermech and some Roughnecks will likely be getting quirks to allow them to fire dual AC20 without ghost heat. They plan on making it possible for certain mechs that can't abuse it by boating dual AC20 along with snub nose PPCs. So yes some mechs will be able to use dual AC20 without ghost heat, but mechs like the Annihilator and at least certain King Crabs will have to eat the ghost heat if they want to fire dual AC20s with triple snubs (I've seen quite a few people doing these builds, the heat isn't too bad on these mechs).

How does allowing dual AC20s help the game? I understand that AC20s compare unfavorably to other PPFLD weapons but the problem is that those other PPFLD combinations are too good.

The game needed less PPFLD not more.

It just hurts lights and mediums because now its another combination of weapons that hits them for 40 damage in one alpha. and there seems to be a lot more of those combinations now.

Adding more PPFLD combinations to the game just weakens the position of lighter mechs.

Quote

If your target stands still, ANY pinpoint weapon (lasers, auto cannons, ppcs, gauss) is PPFLD. The solution. Don't be a scrub. Move when not in cover.

if the shots converge on target then pinpoint weapons are devastating regardless of whether the target is moving or not. being a non-moving scrub has nothing to do with it. because its just as devastating if youre hit with it while moving.

the reality is PPFLD has always been unbalanced. because MWO's armor/structure and hit location system were translated from a game that divides alphastrikes up among random hit locations while MWO allows you to unload an entire alpha into a single hit location. Which is why alphastrikes are way more lethal in MWO than they ever were in battletech because MWO doesnt spread damage evenly like battletech does.

PPFLD has never been balanced in MWO because they never resolved that translation problem between board game and video game. Doubling armor/structure was never enough to fully compensate for the fact you could dump all your damage into one hit location. Also when they doubled armor/structure it upset the balance between lights/mediums and heavies/assaults since heavies/assaults benefited way more from the doubling than lights/mediums. Which is yet another reason we have such disparity between weight classes. MWO's whole system has been fundamentally flawed from the start.

Ghost heat was really the only mechanism keeping PPFLD in check and now theyre systematically weakening the only safeguard the game had against PPFLD because they seem to have forgotten why PPFLD needed to be limited in the first place. Granted ghost heat was always overcomplicated and convoluted but at least it sortve worked to keep PPFLD in check. It was better than nothing.

Edited by Khobai, 06 May 2021 - 01:10 AM.

[Dogstar]

Flamers.

Could the Cauldron take a good hard look at Flamers and make them better please?

Like SSRMs they are a very niche weapon usually and seem to be only used on gimmicky headhunter builds. Flamers are also traditionally a weapon used mostly by lights who are likely to need some attention in the future.

Could we consider increasing the damage component of flamers? Currently IS Flamers do 0.1/s damage, in the original TT rules they used to do damage comparable to a machine gun (if I recall correctly), so maybe that could be increased to 0.5/s or even 1/s considering the very short range?

[Wid1046]

Khobai, on 06 May 2021 - 12:42 AM, said:

How does allowing dual AC20s help the game? I understand that AC20s compare unfavorably to other PPFLD weapons but the problem is that those other PPFLD combinations are too good.

The game needed less PPFLD not more.

It just hurts lights and mediums because now its another combination of weapons that hits them for 40 damage in one alpha. and there seems to be a lot more of those combinations now.

Adding more PPFLD combinations to the game just weakens the position of lighter mechs.
[redacted]

I agree that PPFLD is horrible for light and medium mechs and that steps should be taken to reduce it (be it adding splash or making some weapons like AC20s be two rounds per shot). I was explaining what the Cauldron has said they decided, not agreeing with that decision.

[Gas Guzzler]

Yeah yeah PPFLD OP except when it isn't and burst fire ultra ACs and/or lasers rule the roost.

You guys are funny.

[Gas Guzzler]

Seriously, balance can't shift in this game with out a couple people writing dissertations on why PPFLD is OP because its "all on one component" or laser vomit is OP because you don't have to lead targets and the alphas are huge.

What's funny is someone is talking about light gauss and regular PPCs, which on any light, isn't going to hit one component if the light isn't standing still. It just isn't. Be aware of where the bigs are and don't stand in their line of sight. Dual gauss is scarier than a combo of LGR and PPCs when you are a light.

[kapusta11]

How come 50 PPFLD alpha is too much when shot from 300m but completely fine when it's dual HGauss or from 560m on a build like this: COR-7A

Anyway, RIP SNPPC April 2021 - May 2021

[pbiggz]

kapusta11, on 06 May 2021 - 09:54 AM, said:

How come 50 PPFLD alpha is too much when shot from 300m but completely fine when it's dual HGauss or from 560m on a build like this: COR-7A

Anyway, RIP SNPPC April 2021 - May 2021

Adding mild splash damage will hardly kill it. You're being dramatic.

[pattonesque]

kapusta11, on 06 May 2021 - 09:54 AM, said:

How come 50 PPFLD alpha is too much when shot from 300m but completely fine when it's dual HGauss or from 560m on a build like this: COR-7A

Anyway, RIP SNPPC April 2021 - May 2021

dual Hgauss can only be run on a few mechs in the game, requires enormous tonnage and space investments, goes up in an explosion, and pretty much instantly makes you the target of everyone on the field

[Alex Morgaine]

Please let LGR keep a low cool down, just drop damage a point or something.
They felt like under powered regular gauss with the match patch cool down

[AzureRathalos]

justcallme A S H, on 24 April 2021 - 06:33 AM, said:

I have used the example for over 6 months for quirks - Locust 1V - single IS LPL Mega Quirk. It wasn't great as a build yet the quirk and the mech could be infuriating levels of annoying but it was fun. That is where we are heading with all quirks and considerations.

I haven't actively played the game in over a year now, so I cannot and will not make any suggestions regarding balance.

However, I would like to say that when I was actively playing, my all time favorite Light build was a Locust 1V with a single SNPPC.

[Clay Endfield]

Wid1046, on 06 May 2021 - 04:19 AM, said:

I agree that PPFLD is horrible for light and medium mechs and that steps should be taken to reduce it (be it adding splash or making some weapons like AC20s be two rounds per shot). I was explaining what the Cauldron has said they decided, not agreeing with that decision.

I am inclined to disagree. PPFLD is a skill based play style. It has a place in the game. And the idea that mediums and lights shouldn't get one shotted by a skilled shot is ridiculous; hell, in the Lore, a single shot from a Gauss Rifle is enough to kill a light. Lights aren't tanks, and this idea that should be able to take multiple high alpha hits is nonsensical. Hell, the threat of getting 1-shotted by a skilled player may actually do something about rectifying NASCAR. I don't see an issue with Light pilots learning how to pump the brakes and engage in a little situational awareness; rather than the "weeeeeeee let's abandon the team and run in a circle till we all die!" mentality you see at the head of every NASCAR.

Edited by Clay Endfield, 06 May 2021 - 07:03 PM.

[MrTBSC]

kapusta11, on 06 May 2021 - 09:54 AM, said:

How come 50 PPFLD alpha is too much when shot from 300m but completely fine when it's dual HGauss or from 560m on a build like this: COR-7A

depends on tonnage used on the build, how readily availyable it is across chassis and how easily it is useable

dual HG is not only limited with the space and tonnage it requires but additionaly requires to be charged which adds more difficulty to its useability
AND deals DMG when destroyed

though personaly i have little issue with the close range builds, my personal concern is rather with Lightgauss and either ER PPCs and standart PPCs ..

[Maugged]

Clay Endfield, on 06 May 2021 - 06:12 PM, said:

I am inclined to disagree. PPFLD is a skill based play style. It has a place in the game. And the idea that mediums and lights shouldn't get one shotted by a skilled shot is ridiculous; hell, in the Lore, a single shot from a Gauss Rifle is enough to kill a light. Lights aren't tanks, and this idea that should be able to take multiple high alpha hits is nonsensical. Hell, the threat of getting 1-shotted by a skilled player may actually do something about rectifying NASCAR. I don't see an issue with Light pilots learning how to pump the brakes and engage in a little situational awareness; rather than the "weeeeeeee let's abandon the team and run in a circle till we all die!" mentality you see at the head of every NASCAR.

Lel.

[Mochyn Pupur]

Dogstar, on 06 May 2021 - 01:39 AM, said:

Flamers.

Could the Cauldron take a good hard look at Flamers and make them better please?

Like SSRMs they are a very niche weapon usually and seem to be only used on gimmicky headhunter builds. Flamers are also traditionally a weapon used mostly by lights who are likely to need some attention in the future.

Could we consider increasing the damage component of flamers? Currently IS Flamers do 0.1/s damage, in the original TT rules they used to do damage comparable to a machine gun (if I recall correctly), so maybe that could be increased to 0.5/s or even 1/s considering the very short range?

If anything, flamers should be toned down - a single weapon system of 0.5 or 1t that can shut a mech down carrying 18 dhs in under a few seconds is ridiculous. Heat cap should be dropped significantly to allow reasoned retaliatory combat from the bbq'd mech, not stop it all together because of overheat explosions. So yes, increase damage a little, but haul back on the heat.

[PocketYoda]

pattonesque, on 06 May 2021 - 11:37 AM, said:

dual Hgauss can only be run on a few mechs in the game, requires enormous tonnage and space investments, goes up in an explosion, and pretty much instantly makes you the target of everyone on the field

So because its only on a few mechs thats ok lol and thats a lot of only a few mechs.

[justcallme A S H]

MechaGnome, on 07 May 2021 - 03:28 AM, said:

So because its only on a few mechs thats ok lol and thats a lot of only a few mechs.

A lot? How many mechs would you / can you run DHG on?

Anni (2) / Fafnir (2) / Cyclops (1) / Victor (1) / Mauler (1) / Nightstar (1) - NSR being super bad.
Warhammer (1) / Thanatos (1)

Total - 10

Now out of 800 something chassis I'm going to say that 0.013% of mechs is not a a lot. I would not even say it's a little.

Then factor in all of them are extrmely slow, some of the slowest in the game... yikes

[pbiggz]

Im gonna sound like a broken record here but its probably worth pointing out that lowering time to kill is only a serious problem if the game continues to never have respawns. Give us respawns and people will tolerate, if not outright expect splashier weapons with higher kill potential.

[pattonesque]

MechaGnome, on 07 May 2021 - 03:28 AM, said:

So because its only on a few mechs thats ok lol and thats a lot of only a few mechs.

it's extremely disingenuous of you to look at the multiple reasons I gave that -- in aggregate-- are a balance factor for dual Hgauss and pretend I only mentioned one of them

here, I'll add another one -- every single mech that mounts dual HGauss is necessarily extremely slow both because of the tonnage investment and the lack of space to run XL/LFE