180 replies to this topic

[Krasnopesky]

Hello all, for those who do not know me I am a member of The Cauldron and I am also the contact person between MWO Comp and PGI (for representing the comp scene, organising comp prizes and the yearly Championship Series which uses the in-game Comp Play tab).

This post will contain average match time data from PGI, commentary on that data and The Cauldron's perspective, future plans from The Cauldron, and finally some thoughts on measuring the success of the planned changes and PGI's responsibilities in relation to that.

Average Quick Play Match Time Data
PGI have shared with me two very small, but important, sets of data in regards to average Quick Play (QP) match time. The first is below:

• Average match time in a 72 hour window during February 16th to February 19th: 408.2009 seconds (6 minutes, 48 seconds)
  
• Average match time in the first 72 hours after March patch: 403.5756 seconds (6 minutes, 43 seconds)
  
• Average match time in the first 48 hours after April patch: 386.8871 seconds (6 minutes, 26 seconds)

As we can see here the average match time was reduced by 4.1% from March to April (when comparing the days immediately following a patch) and 5.2% when compared to February (stable meta for ~2 years).

The second set of QP match time averages from the past weekend:

• Average match time from February 19/20/21: 406.1456 seconds (6 minutes, 46 seconds)
  
• Average match time from March 19/20/21: 402.6719 seconds (6 minutes, 42 seconds)
  
• Average match time from April 23/24/25: 389.4897 seconds (6 minutes, 29 seconds)

We can see here the time differences have gotten closer when compared to the first few days averages. The Cauldron weapon patch has resulted in a 3.3% decrease in match time compared to March and a 4.1% decrease compared to February.

These data sets are from relatively narrow time frames and in the future I hope PGI will share monthly comparisons (which for obvious reasons cannot happen right now, as a month has not passed from the April patch).

The Cauldron on Match Time (and TTK as an extension)
I am sure some people will look at this decrease in match time and automatically think 'less match time equals failed patch'. I am here to give The Cauldron's (and my own) perspective on this and other considerations.

The Cauldron's overarching goal has always been to increase 'fun' and 'enjoyment' for the majority of people who play this game, two extremely subjective concepts. In order to make this goal more measurable and achievable we have decided to focus on making more weapons, play styles, and 'Mechs in general viable. This concept presumes that having more options available to use and not being punished for using ineffective weapons (because the goal is there will be zero ineffective weapons) will be more 'fun' for the vast majority of players. This goal is measurable as PGI will (hopefully) provide us with statistics that indicate whether or not an increase in weapon and 'Mech diversity has occurred as a result of our changes.

The link here between this goal, match time, Time to Kill (TTK), the weapon patch, and future patches/balance passes is on the order of the passes. Weapons were chosen first for a number of reasons, the primary one being PGI chose weapons to focus on in their March patch (this patch was completely driven by PGI and not The Cauldron). This made it far easier to compare the two patches. The March patch received overwhelmingly negative feedback from the community and so far the April patch has been overwhelmingly positive in comparison.

As weapons were chosen first and The Cauldron decided to focus on mainly weapon 'buffs' as opposed to 'nerfs' (PGI has historically focused on nerfs as opposed to buffs) it was predicted and expected by many members of the community that TTK and match time would be reduced. There were many claims that these reductions would be huge, but as the above numbers show, thus far they have been relatively minor.

The positive message here is this: The weapon pass should be the only patch that we see a decrease in match time. Every other planned pass coming from The Cauldron in the future is aimed towards increasing TTK and match time.

Here is the current planned schedule from The Cauldron:

May

• Mobility Pass (focus on increasing the mobility of many, but not all, Mechs)
  
• Minor Weapon adjustments
  
• A 'taste' of 'Mech quirks

June

• Quirk Pass (focus on decreasing some outlier offensive weapon quirks, increasing defensive quirks plus introducing flavour quirks)
  
• Minor Weapon and Mobility adjustments

July

• Adjustments to weapons, mobility, and Quirks as necessary

August/September/October

• Adjustments to weapons, mobility, and Quirks as necessary
  
• 'Mech Rescale - This is completely on PGI to deliver, The Cauldron cannot do this (we can advise of course, but not implement)

Conclusion

At the end of the day the best indicators for us and PGI are an increase in players and player retention. If we see an increase in players and those players keep playing then we are on the right path.

However the planned changes being implemented by The Cauldron are only one piece of the puzzle. PGI must work on many other elements that only they can fix: New Player Experience, UI, game modes, costing, new content, new features etc. These are all outside the scope of what The Cauldron can deliver. In fact I would describe these other areas as more important to the average player than The Cauldron's balance updates, especially in regards to new content (whether that be new weapons, 'Mechs, maps, or preferably all three).

Edited by Krasnopesky, 28 April 2021 - 08:05 AM.

[denAirwalkerrr]

#maketimbygreatagain

[ghost1e]

#makekdkgreatagain

[Bennesto]

Thank you and continue the good work.

[McGoat]

Hello.

Great efforts and collaboration with PGI.
Thank you.

Goodbye.

[Gas Guzzler]

Awesome. I have been loving it so far and looking forward to the future.

Now let’s get HAGs (charge up Gauss-style burst) and some new Mechs please, PGI!

[justcallme A S H]

Now people can blame you for everything and not me Mr Kras.

I thus approve of this post. A++


And I totally back Cauldron changes.


I do find it interesting that the match time averages did not drop anywhere near what some thought would happen. Expected drop sure, 4% is very much not a lot. Good news indeed.

Bring on mobilty/quirks.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 28 April 2021 - 06:07 AM.

[II Marauder II]

Great efforts from both the Cauldron and PGI, Im eagerly awaiting the next steps.

[Jackofallpots]

Thank you for your service, Krasjoepesci.

[Brauer]

justcallme A S H, on 28 April 2021 - 06:07 AM, said:

Now people can blame you for everything and not me Mr Kras.

I thus approve of this post. A++


And I totally back Cauldron changes.


I do find it interesting that the match time averages did not drop anywhere near what some thought would happen. Expected drop sure, 4% is very much not a lot. Good news indeed.

Bring on mobilty/quirks.

Yeah, 4% is hardly noteworthy. It's small enough that it could just be noise (although it is consistent in the time periods shared so that's a bit less likely). Hopefully PGI will continue to provide this info and will provide data on larger time-frames.

[JediPanther]

July: RE-re-RE-scale.
Yeah. i'm expecting one of two things to happen. 1. Pgi will make up a reason not to. Eg. waiting to eg7 to take over and do it. 2. Pgi screws it up yet again and makes it so bad even the few 20ts are reduced to the ones with only ecm/stealth as viable.

Weapon nerfs/buff i'll let other that play decide if those are good or not. It's been for me about 3-4 months of not playing due to the vast majority of the lights being power creeped/obsoleted by other mechs in its own weight class (35t vs 20t.) As well as the huge ppfd and alphas so common now that a light simple can't do enough damage when they have a mere 12 alpha (spider 5v little ****) or at most on the jr7-d 24 (4x mpl)-37 if you run the 4ml srm 8 with minimal one ton ammo.

Seeing more weapons used is ok but the same mechs and meta mechs over and over is not. Name one thing other than jump jets that a Jenner has over any other light excluding the Oxide's (the only good Jenner due to high alpha) of 43.

[justcallme A S H]

Brauer, on 28 April 2021 - 06:11 AM, said:

Yeah, 4% is hardly noteworthy. It's small enough that it could just be noise (although it is consistent in the time periods shared so that's a bit less likely). Hopefully PGI will continue to provide this info and will provide data on larger time-frames.

Yeah there is a lot more data 'in my head' that would be great to help quantify a heap of things better via all manner of breakdowns haha. I'm sure all other Cauldron members feel the same there as it would be helpful.

Alas those numbers are certainly quite interesting and definitely support the expectations going into the patch.

[Nightbird]

It's something to keep an eye on for sure. People don't shoot the whole match, so 4% shorter matches might translate to 12% lower TTK on average, and in the first 48 hours after the patch. After people start optimizing builds, it can get to 20% lower TTK or more.

Still, looking forward to mobility and rescale, screw the lights.

[feeWAIVER]

I wonder what the average time is on the last surviving ppc shadowcat with a 20% hit rate that seems to be in every quickplay match?

[D U N E]

Can we ban Kras, seems like a tossic player - in now way trust him.
On the bright side, he can't name change me on the Forum. So LoL you Cornflower!


Though yea, really excited for what's to come, can't wait to see how this continues.

[x Deathstrike x]

Oh holy Cauldron giveth thy MWO changes today and tomorrow.
Thank you so much for all the work you put into this.

Edited by x Deathstrike x, 28 April 2021 - 06:40 AM.

[Krasnopesky]

Nightbird, on 28 April 2021 - 06:23 AM, said:

It's something to keep an eye on for sure. People don't shoot the whole match, so 4% shorter matches might translate to 12% lower TTK on average, and in the first 48 hours after the patch. After people start optimizing builds, it can get to 20% lower TTK or more.

Still, looking forward to mobility and rescale, screw the lights.

The second set of data shows an increase in match time during the past weekend compared to the initial 48 hour timeframe.

Of course as I described in my post, this is a rather small sample size. In the coming months we will see the results for average matchtime over a month long time period (provided PGI continues to give us this) and player numbers.

[Jackofallpots]

i'm having difficulties embedding an image D:

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

#spiritbearsmatter

or rather: make it matter, again! keep up the good work

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

I am going to be honest here. My stats, especially kdr took a nose dive- but, I am having more fun this patch, then I have had in a long time. Why? I am playing with new found toys that just were not fun before... and now I am fighting against many different play styles, now that the weapon choices are much more abundant.

(I know that I am potato tier, but I hope my opinion matters just as much as comp players).

This is a game- and fun is the most important part of playing a game.

Right now—- I am having fun, but... at the same time, I am not having as much fun as I did during beta... still- a step in the right direction. I am pleased to hear about the proposed future patches, especially mobility because engine desync was one of the most detrimental hits to my quantitative level of enjoyment.

Thank you PGI for listening to the community, and implementing changes based on what the player base was asking for! Keep up the good work everyone!