180 replies to this topic

[Wid1046]

Krasnopesky, on 28 April 2021 - 10:27 AM, said:

Pretty much. Also adding in some new/old quirks that aren't used anymore that we have discovered we can do with the available system. 'Flavour' quirks so to speak.

Here are two examples that will likely make it in:

CGR-3K: +5% max speed
UrbanMech(s): Ballistic ammo quirks (+10 AC20 shots per tonne of ammo for example)

Can you share what you've learned is possible with the current system? It would be great to have more people brainstorm possibilities. For example could percent damage increases be applied to weapons? A Spider 5V with a 25% damage increase to energy weapons would be interesting (probably still not good, but interesting).

Depending on how the system works, there may even be quirks that are possible to create, but you haven't thought of. For example could the Urbanmech get a quirk that reduces the weight of the AC20? Or could (yeah, again with the spider 5V) the spider 5V get a quirk that reduces the number of slots required for a large laser?

Edited by Wid1046, 29 April 2021 - 08:25 AM.

[Krasnopesky]

Wid1046, on 29 April 2021 - 08:16 AM, said:

Can you share what you've learned is possible with the current system? It would be great to have more people brainstorm possibilities. For example could percent damage increases be applied to weapons? A Spider 5V with a 25% damage increase to energy weapons would be interesting (probably still not good, but interesting).

Depending on how the system works, there may even be quirks that are possible to create, but you haven't thought of. For example could the Urbanmech get a quirk that reduces the weight of the AC20? Or could (yeah, again with the spider 5V) the spider 5V get a quirk that reduces the number of slots required for a large laser?

I'm not really the person to ask these questions to, Navid A1 has a much better understanding of what is possible or not when it comes to 'new' and 'interesting' quirks.

To my understanding you can convert skill nodes into quirks, past that and the existing quirks I am not sure.

[Chrome Magnus]

Thanks for working w/PGI. Although the number of people running PPCs clearly shows they were pushed too far. I'm routinely all but one shot from beyond weapon range now. Not to mention being one shot more often than before these passes.

I have no problem with adjustments and appreciate people getting to toy with builds time but they should be done like adjusting room temp. Small increments otherwise you go from too hot to too cold then back again.

[Panzer Puppy]

So far I have been having a great time and playing a lot more.

[JediPanther]

The6thMessenger, on 28 April 2021 - 05:31 PM, said:

Yeah, I agree that PGI would find an excuse not to work.

But if they do, all they need to do is follow the Cauldron's rescale instruction.

If pgi really wanted to i bet they could just let some one who is local from the cauldron come in and re-scale for them as unpaid intern and thus that person has a shiny new "experience" line on their resume, pgi technically did the rescale and maybe, the unused lights will see use again. Hell, Bet even I could youtube a tutorial in blender, rescale a mech in blender and export.

The only hard parts would possible some minor texture work. Doubt they'd have to re-rig or animate any thing. Pretty sure my archaic methods of 3d work from early 2000s has been pretty much batch file/automated by now.

[DerMaulwurf]

Krasnopesky, on 29 April 2021 - 07:45 AM, said:

I am not trying to simply measure TTK with just match time, but the fact remains that average match time is the only data set I have access to. True TTK is very difficult to measure and would require a lot more work on PGI's behalf, if it is even possible at all to truly do it with the data and resources they have.

The correlation between TTK and match time in this instance is the fact that 'walking time' and other factors have not been impacted at all while the weapons that do the killing have. This means the data is indicating TTK has been reduced, as one would expect when you buff a lot of under-performing weapons.

I have been as transparent as possible in regards to The Cauldron's intentions, plans, data, analysis, and results. Certainly more transparent than we have experienced from PGI in the past.

The fact, that you're even responding is already much more than PGI did.

I just wanted to point out the following (emphasis added):

Quote

As weapons were chosen first and The Cauldron decided to focus on mainly weapon 'buffs' as opposed to 'nerfs' (PGI has historically focused on nerfs as opposed to buffs) it was predicted and expected by many members of the community that TTK and match time would be reduced. There were many claims that these reductions would be huge, but as the above numbers show, thus far they have been relatively minor.

It's ok to say that you don't have the data to make reliable statements. But then you shouldn't jump to conclusions like this.

[Krasnopesky]

DerMaulwurf, on 30 April 2021 - 02:57 AM, said:

The fact, that you're even responding is already much more than PGI did.

I just wanted to point out the following (emphasis added):



It's ok to say that you don't have the data to make reliable statements. But then you shouldn't jump to conclusions like this.

I am fine with both stating and concluding there has not been a 'huge' reduction in match time and TTK. I can say this from the data PGI supplied, from community feedback, and my own and others anecdotal evidence.

Of course there has definitely been a reduction, as I stated numerous times, but it is no where near the ~50% figures some community members were claiming it would be prior to the patch. The average match time reduction can definitely be described as 'minor' and as I believe there is a direct correlation between comparing average match times of different patches that have only changed weapons and TTK I am comfortable in concluding that there has been a minor reduction in TTK as well. That's my own opinion and interpretation of the data.

I have not made claims of exact percentage changes for TTK, not even ballpark figures.

Edited by Krasnopesky, 30 April 2021 - 09:54 AM.

[Slothasaurus]

Krasnopesky, on 28 April 2021 - 05:57 AM, said:

The weapon pass should be the only patch that we see a decrease in match time. Every other planned pass coming from The Cauldron in the future is aimed towards increasing TTK and match time.

Yes, this. Thanks for the work that was done and the work currently being done. I look forward to those future changes.

[DAEDALOS513]

Unless pgi broke down the stats showing how many matches are included in the calculation where a ppc shc ended up dragging the match on.. these stats are pretty useless.. PPC shadowcats are in almost every match.. not to mention light ppc spiders.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 08 May 2021 - 12:31 PM.

[DAEDALOS513]

mike29tw, on 28 April 2021 - 09:13 PM, said:

100% agree with this.

Good players would leverage increased mobility for offense capability more than defense. Matches are still, primarily, about killing other mechs. You win by dealing damage and NOT taking damage. Not a single good player ever thinks, "I'm going to go to that spot, pop myself up in the enemy's crosshair, and spread some damage like a champ!"

That being said, I enjoy Cauldron's changes. I'm excited to see what's coming.

Yep, I stated this before the patch hit.. once you start buffing en masse like they did.. it becomes a slippery slope of 'buff one thing', then you have to 'buff other things' to counter the previous buffs.. now these latest buffs will bring other problems.. and so on. I totally agree with you that added agility will not be used as a defensive benefit but as an aggressive one resulting in nascar's the likes of which we have never seen... not sure if it's in cauldrons' purview but all maps should be adjusted to minimize the nascar effect on matches..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 08 May 2021 - 12:35 PM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Another factor not being considered is tier level. I can easily see tier 3 and 4 matches lasting 6 minutes on average and longer because players don't have experience building or piloting.. but much shorter for tier's 1 and 2...

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 08 May 2021 - 12:35 PM.

[RockmachinE]

I'll just throw my 2 cents in here.

Since the PGI balance pass I stopped playing MWO and try as I might I just can't get into it after the Cauldron patch.

For me personally the line of power creep and short TTK has been crossed. I feel like I'm playing a bad, slow FPS and not so much a huge armored mech game anymore.

I've been around since beta in one form or another, there have been all kinds of goofy things in MWO like Lurmageddon and so forth, but I always kind stuck with it. However, for the first time in years the game just doesn't seem fun anymore. I'm saddened by this fact as its been my go to game for years and I play virtually nothing else.

I hope in the long term the game will be balanced out but somehow I have a feeling some strange line has been crossed. This is all very personal and biased, but I'm sure there's other people out there who share this sentiment.

Peace.

[DAEDALOS513]

Louis Brofist, on 08 May 2021 - 01:02 PM, said:

I'll just throw my 2 cents in here.

Since the PGI balance pass I stopped playing MWO and try as I might I just can't get into it after the Cauldron patch.

For me personally the line of power creep and short TTK has been crossed. I feel like I'm playing a bad, slow FPS and not so much a huge armored mech game anymore.

I've been around since beta in one form or another, there have been all kinds of goofy things in MWO like Lurmageddon and so forth, but I always kind stuck with it. However, for the first time in years the game just doesn't seem fun anymore. I'm saddened by this fact as its been my go to game for years and I play virtually nothing else.

I hope in the long term the game will be balanced out but somehow I have a feeling some strange line has been crossed. This is all very personal and biased, but I'm sure there's other people out there who share this sentiment.

Peace.

It's sad to see another veteran name unhappy with mwo.. but I mirror your sentiments exactly. This game is losing its' uniqueness.. even more so once all mechs shrink and agility buffs hit. So much for being a 'big-stompy-robot-thinking-man's-game.' If it was up to cauldron they would have us bunny-hopping in every mech call of duty style and one-shotting everyone with enourmous pinpoint alpha's. You make one false move now and you're toast... especially in a light or medium.

Until real value-added patches hit that add actual content.. and we stop tweaking, re-tweaking and re-re-tweaking.. this game will never gain any traction.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 09 May 2021 - 09:41 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

DAEDALOS513, on 08 May 2021 - 11:59 AM, said:

Unless pgi broke down the stats showing how many matches are included in the calculation where a ppc shc ended up dragging the match on.. these stats are pretty useless.. PPC shadowcats are in almost every match.. not to mention light ppc spiders.

The outlier Shadowcat existed prior to the patch.

I have very rarely seen any SHCs at the matches post-patch in any of my games or the 40+hrs of streamers I've watched. The whole "but the Shadowcat is making the stats wrong" seems like nothing more than a very wonky leg a couple of people are trying to use to say the stats are somehow being massively skewed. I'm not seeing anyone else claim there is a SHC every other game.

[Tribal556]

"Costing" is almost non-existent.
I mean this is very reasonable.
What is expensive is perhaps hero mechs, but only the bigger ones, and they are totally optional.
(Can't say it s pay to win, there are always alternatives or equivalent for in-game credits).

Then, i don't think dumbing down the game even more will bring more player retention
Already, it is pretty simple, mobility is just another step in making it easier to play.

I came back after years of inactivity, and all i see is that long range engagements almost disappeared .
LRM are kind of useless, (due to introduction of multiple 3,4 ams mech and ever increasing numbers of ECM mechs).
And sniping is not really possible anymore.
It was already a niche, but now...and if you introduce more mobility, it s totally gone.

So what's left ? Raw firepower at 100-500m range.
Don't even mind the heat management or sustainability in combat.
Armor can also be disregarded to a good extent, since anyway, if you are hit by more than 2 mechs at once, you are done.
(doesn't matter if you drive a light or assault mech).

That's it, any step further simplifying accessibility will turn it into a basic FPS.
But i don't believe the game can stand its ground as a basic FPS.

Then there are some balance problem, for ex. how some light clan mechs can be fitted with the same weaponry as heavy IS mech, but i don't think it s so relevant, since faction play seems to be dead anyway.
But still it s relevant in MM... one team could pack so much more firepower using this or that mech.... and since the gameplay is somewhat down to pure firepower... that s perhaps an issue.

For play retention, as 10 years old game, it does very well, the only thing possible is to update engine and "rebrand"(relaunch) it.

[justcallme A S H]

And a question to anyone else reading...


Are you seeing a massive increase in SHC every other match, dragging games out???

[x Deathstrike x]

justcallme A S H, on 08 May 2021 - 03:15 PM, said:

And a question to anyone else reading...


Are you seeing a massive increase in SHC every other match, dragging games out???

Actually, yes. Practially every match there is a poptart SHC.
And if its not a SHC is something else that like a stealth mech.

[Lousyten]

justcallme A S H, on 08 May 2021 - 03:15 PM, said:

And a question to anyone else reading...


Are you seeing a massive increase in SHC every other match, dragging games out???

Not seeing any unusual surge.

[PocketYoda]

I am not enjoying this new MWO. The TTK and weapons are far too strong now. I'm playing a lot less now.

justcallme A S H, on 08 May 2021 - 03:15 PM, said:

And a question to anyone else reading...


Are you seeing a massive increase in SHC every other match, dragging games out???

Yes and other similar mechs like Assassins, locusts, fleas anything fast and pilots hide for 6-7 mins.. Mostly Skirmish matches need to go just use Assault maps

Edited by MechaGnome, 08 May 2021 - 06:26 PM.

[Brauer]

justcallme A S H, on 08 May 2021 - 03:15 PM, said:

And a question to anyone else reading...


Are you seeing a massive increase in SHC every other match, dragging games out???

Nope. Few games get dragged on by a player hiding to save kdr or trying madly to clutch a win by kiting with a SHC or something as usual. I haven't noticed any change in that at all.