87 replies to this topic

[Brom96]

As I said before: get cover, situational awareness and Watch what your team's doing.

ECM and AMS are nice, but I don't use them very often. I like to play Polar with machine gun Urbie, dealing most damage bellow 200m. I play it with brawling mechs with ranges under 400-300m. I play it with LRM and ATM mechs. Best score ever on that map? Raven 2X with MLs.

[East Indy]

There's an industrial complex in J6 that so far has made for really enjoyable engagements at every range in non-capture modes, with no clear advantage to the side from which groups approach. Someone brought us there once and when I'm on the south side I usually suggest it. This also, alongside other examples, demonstrates that players don't care about the actual center of the map; it's that they logged in to shoot 'Mechs, and get rewarded for that overwhelmingly, so will typically make a beeline for targets.

Having more locations with usable numbers of structures, as well as wider and deeper trenches (not canyon, fully ground-navigable trenches) would make that map a lot better than it is now.

Edited by East Indy, 06 May 2021 - 08:23 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Polar Highlands can be fixed to make it better. They can dig the trenches into the middle of the map and add rocks for cover throughout that break LoS. Or scatter more buildings around.

If they wanted to reskin it as a new map, they could make it into a forest with the big tree density of Forest Colony. Though that would probably kill the FPS.

[Vincefeld]

I would like to say same about Solaris city.
Awful map that doesnt let you play unless you have certain build archetype.
+FPS drops so hard and suddenly on that map and theres a lot of texture flickering + you get stuck a lot

Edited by Vincefeld, 06 May 2021 - 01:06 PM.

[Stonefalcon]

Brom96, on 02 May 2021 - 02:59 AM, said:

It is relatively open, cold map, with terrain that suits the maneuver, both physical and fire, and offers quite a few cover options.

If you are dying due to the LRM barrage, please shoot down the UAV or the actual spotter that is in your rear area.

Ans trust me, using LRMs on that area is not more effective then in other non urban maps. There is cover (if I can hide Nightstar there, so others can, too), and the amount of ecm and ams nowadays eats away large proportion of the missles enemy shoots at you or just prevents them from locking.

If you are referring to sheer size of it, I would say we need more maps that size.

But, lets be honest, polar and alpine both get far rarely voted compared to the brawler's favorites, like canyon or hibernal.

If the map had deeper trenches to actually promote trench warfare it might be half decent but in it's current state, it's ****.

[HammerMaster]

Gas Guzzler, on 05 May 2021 - 03:45 PM, said:

Wrong.

[Hindenhoot]

Vincefeld, on 06 May 2021 - 01:05 PM, said:

I would like to say same about Solaris city.
Awful map that doesnt let you play unless you have certain build archetype.
+FPS drops so hard and suddenly on that map and theres a lot of texture flickering + you get stuck a lot

While I'm not really a fan of these maps, I for one don't mind that there are some maps that don't accommodate all styles of play and all builds. Why should they? Real warfare doesn't.

I like that it discourages boating and min/maxing as well as breaking up the experience of very similar gameplay in other maps.

The popular maps like Canyon, Hibernal, Mining, HPG and Grim Plexus all feel much the same with gameplay rotating around central features.

Edited by Dahoota, 06 May 2021 - 07:55 PM.

[Surefoot]

Dahoota, on 06 May 2021 - 07:53 PM, said:

The popular maps like Canyon, Hibernal, Mining, HPG and Grim Plexus all feel much the same with gameplay rotating around central features.

At least on Polar and Alpine the almost complete absence of lighting for 'mechs makes them stand out from the white background.

[Kroete]

Gas Guzzler, on 05 May 2021 - 12:05 PM, said:

... or we don't have maps that are only enjoyable to play on if you take ECM, AMS, Radar dep, larger engine, etc.

People want to change missiles because they dont want to take any of the many counters.
You want to change a map because of the same reason?

Radarderp and watching for uavs and spotters is mostly enough,
if you add 1 ton of teamutility, what every mech over 60 tons should do,
its much better and should help in your problem.

But if you dont want to take any of the soft- and hardcounters and damagemitigating items,
i can only say:
No ams, no cry!

Edited by Kroete, 06 May 2021 - 10:47 PM.

[pbiggz]

y'all are still losing sight of the reality here.
If you have a runny nose, your problem is probably that you have an infection. The treatment isn't to hack off the nose, its to take meds and get plenty of bedrest to fight the infection. You treat the cause, not the symptom.

People here are still mistaking the symptom for the cause of our woes. Many maps are unfun if you get stuck on them with anything but a generalist build, but every map can be enjoyable if you're given the opportunity to take a build you prefer on that map, and with that team.

The problem isn't the maps; thats only the symptom.
The problem is we have no pre match lobbies, and no respawns.

Edited by pbiggz, 07 May 2021 - 05:59 AM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

pbiggz, on 07 May 2021 - 05:58 AM, said:

y'all are still losing sight of the reality here.
If you have a runny nose, your problem is probably that you have an infection. The treatment isn't to hack off the nose, its to take meds and get plenty of bedrest to fight the infection. You treat the cause, not the symptom.

People here are still mistaking the symptom for the cause of our woes. Many maps are unfun if you get stuck on them with anything but a generalist build, but every map can be enjoyable if you're given the opportunity to take a build you prefer on that map, and with that team.

The problem isn't the maps; thats only the symptom.
The problem is we have no pre match lobbies, and no respawns.

so on polar, 24ppl bring a battlemaster, stalker, hellbringer (or whatever is run on polar these days in FW)
probably it's only 20 and 4 bring something "exotic"
and it's a 15min snipefest from there-on.

sounds so exciting.
not.

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 07 May 2021 - 06:27 AM.

[pbiggz]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 07 May 2021 - 06:27 AM, said:

so on polar, 24ppl bring a battlemaster, stalker, hellbringer (or whatever is run on polar these days in FW)
probably it's only 20 and 4 bring something "exotic"
and it's a 15min snipefest from there-on.

sounds so exciting.
not.

People keep using this argument but its actually a total strawman. First, what are people doing now? Either they're taking non optimal builds and complaining about polar, or they're taking optimal builds, which are frequently high alpha direct fire generalists that work on any map.

A pre-match lobby pretty much precludes your nightmare scenario, because not only does it let you pick a mech good for the map, it also lets you balance your mech and loadout selection against your team. Balancing your loadout with your teammates is one of the primary differences between solo and group players, and it ought to be available to all players, regardless of that status.

So no, that's a strawman and I reject it outright.

[Brom96]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 07 May 2021 - 06:27 AM, said:

so on polar, 24ppl bring a battlemaster, stalker, hellbringer (or whatever is run on polar these days in FW)
probably it's only 20 and 4 bring something "exotic"
and it's a 15min snipefest from there-on.

sounds so exciting.
not.

I have never seen anything like this, in all these years.

If there is a single enemy surviving, it is usually a fast mover, most likely LLs or PPCs. But whole match sniperfest? Nope. You folks get urban maps way too often for my liking, yet I play on those things. And know what? I see players doing all kinds of stupid there.

And we have too much too short matches.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Brom96, on 07 May 2021 - 06:54 AM, said:

I have never seen anything like this, in all these years.

If there is a single enemy surviving, it is usually a fast mover, most likely LLs or PPCs. But whole match sniperfest? Nope. You folks get urban maps way too often for my liking, yet I play on those things. And know what? I see players doing all kinds of stupid there.

And we have too much too short matches.

do faction on that map, because that exactly what pbiggz described above. and it IS a sniperfest at least 8of10 times, then - conquest excluded.

back in 2019, I had A LOT of sniperfest-action in fw. to the point where you get the frikkin map 3-5 frikkin times in a row, and the moment you can't take that anymore and quit, turns out most of your team AS WELL as the reds can't take it anymore either.

and yeah: mech-composition is that monotonous, because ppl CAN take the optimised build for that map - so naturally they DO.
and it's a hand full of mechs who just perform better on that map than others.


but pls don't take my word for it, try it yourself: faction warfare, wait for polar highlands and better bring a coffee to keep you awake on that map

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 07 May 2021 - 07:07 AM.

[pbiggz]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 07 May 2021 - 07:05 AM, said:

do faction on that map, because that exactly what pbiggz described above. and it IS a sniperfest at least 8of10 times, then - conquest excluded.

back in 2019, I had A LOT of sniperfest-action in fw. to the point where you get the frikkin map 3-5 frikkin times in a row, and the moment you can't take that anymore and quit, turns out most of your team AS WELL as the reds can't take it anymore either.

and yeah: mech-composition is that monotonous, because ppl CAN take the optimised build for that map - so naturally they DO.
and it's a hand full of mechs who just perform better on that map than others.


but pls don't take my word for it, try it yourself: faction warfare, wait for polar highlands and better bring a coffee to keep you awake on that map

Can you change your dropdeck/loadouts once you know the map you're on in faction warfare? My recollection is that you cant, which means everyone takes generalist direct fire builds, so again, you've built a ****** strawman out of my argument.

The nightmare scenario you've described is just the reality already. My proposal would go a long way to making sure it didnt happen, and arguing as you are against it is disingenuous.

[John Bronco]

pbiggz, on 07 May 2021 - 06:42 AM, said:

So no, that's a strawman and I reject it outright.

No, it's a fact and if you don't believe us just go play some FP.

Yes, you pick your deck after the map is shown to you, jesus ******* christ.

Edited by John Bronco, 07 May 2021 - 07:13 AM.

[pbiggz]

John Bronco, on 07 May 2021 - 07:12 AM, said:

No, it's a fact and if you don't believe us just go play some FP.

Yes, you pick your deck after the map is shown to you, jesus ******* christ.

I haven't played Faction Play since it died in 2017, so apologies, i actually couldn't recall. That said, never one did i experience pure sniper fests. I played right through the various IS quirk metas, clan brawlers, light rushes, we even once staged 12 atlases behind the gates of boreal for fun.

[John Bronco]

Well I can tell you as some who does play FP that long range is very popular on any map which supports it, which is most of them.

Some people may enjoy that, others will not.

[pbiggz]

John Bronco, on 07 May 2021 - 07:18 AM, said:

Well I can tell you as some who does play FP that long range is very popular on any map which supports it, which is most of them.

Some people may enjoy that, others will not.

Not all maps should be good for all builds. We should have maps with wicked space dust storms that **** up sensors so you cant snipe or lurm. We should have maps with wide open expanses that encourage trades at range. We should have super hot maps that cook you if you're stupid enough to bring laser vomit. We should have maps that are ice cold and let you sling PPCs for hours, and they shouldn't be made "good for all builds".

[Alexander of Macedon]

Kroete, on 06 May 2021 - 10:45 PM, said:

People want to change missiles because they dont want to take any of the many counters.
You want to change a map because of the same reason?

Radarderp and watching for uavs and spotters is mostly enough,
if you add 1 ton of teamutility, what every mech over 60 tons should do,
its much better and should help in your problem.

But if you dont want to take any of the soft- and hardcounters and damagemitigating items,
i can only say:
No ams, no cry!

You don't have to bring any equipment or take any skill nodes to counter or mitigate lasers, ACs, PPCs, machine guns, SRMs, MRMs, or gauss. LRMs (and ATMs) are the only weapons in the game that have multiple pieces of equipment and skill nodes which exist specifically or primarily to counter them.

TheCaptainJZ, on 06 May 2021 - 08:52 AM, said:

If they wanted to reskin it as a new map, they could make it into a forest with the big tree density of Forest Colony. Though that would probably kill the FPS.

TBH I would love to have an actual forest map that's pure forest with rock formations and a few buildings to help provide larger LOS breaks. I like new Forest Colony but 90% of the fighting happens on the beach road while all of the more interesting parts of the map never see combat.