230 replies to this topic

[dario03]

Nightbird, on 04 May 2021 - 11:48 AM, said:

Cool, commando and urbie level quirks for lights confirmed?

Not all of them, but some like the Commando and Urbie should have Commando and Urbie level quirks

But I do expect a decent amount of lights to go up in survival quirks. Again can't say for sure exactly how many or how much. But the plan is to increase diversity in mechs so if lights drop in performance then something will be done to bring them up.

[feeWAIVER]

I like playing lights. My locust pirates bane is probably my favorite.
if i get 500 dmg out it, I feel like it was a good run.

I used to love jenners and firestarters until they got rescaled.

Anyways, I don't know what the answer is, but if someone asked me what lights need, "more agility" isn't the answer that would first come to mind.

Because relatively, they are already the most agile mechs I have.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 04 May 2021 - 11:57 AM.

[Nightbird]

dario03, on 04 May 2021 - 11:55 AM, said:

But I do expect a decent amount of lights to go up in survival quirks. Again can't say for sure exactly how many or how much. But the plan is to increase diversity in mechs so if lights drop in performance then something will be done to bring them up.

Well, counting on you then when the drop happens.

[Vlad Ward]

Nightbird, on 04 May 2021 - 08:29 AM, said:

https://leaderboard....rch?u=Vlad+Ward

Thanks for your reply. Just showing all interested that nerfing lights is what makes the game fun to to the people that play assaults.

Lol. I have no skin in the game when it comes to Lights. As you pointed out, I don't play them. My comment was driven by your callout to real world physics as if it means anything in a game about bipedal robotanks.

Buff Lights, nerf Lights, do whatever you need to do to balance them. Just don't fall into the trap of trying to "justify" your balance passes with anything more than the rule of cool.

FWIW, without an Engineering team to actually build out Information warfare or respawns to make movement speed meaningful, I'd be happy to buff Lights to make them more High Risk / High Reward and balance the playing field for 1 Player = 1 Player rather than 20 Tons < 100 Tons.

Battletech and by extension the single-player Mechwarrior games were always intentionally imbalanced because there was a cost meta-game associated with fielding 'Mechs. As an arena shooter, MWO cannot make a player in a 20-ton Mech as competitive as a player in a 100-ton Mech if it sticks strictly to the old paradigms.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 04 May 2021 - 12:39 PM.

[Suspect]

On the topic of quirks for lights-
Probably not possible without an engineer but I'd love to see things like a base percentage of Radar Derp and Seismic for the some, Sensor Range and Info Gathering for others. "New Quirks"

Agility proposal looks pretty good, we got to do it live to really see. Thanks for the effort!!

[Gas Guzzler]

The light fragility is real.

[dario03]

Nightbird, on 04 May 2021 - 12:05 PM, said:

Well, counting on you then when the drop happens.

I definitely push to have lights at least at their current comparative level. Having more mechs be viable across and within the weight classes is a main goal. I already tell the rest of the guys my predictions and suggestions often, even though I know we have to wait and see to be sure.

[dario03]

Suspect, on 04 May 2021 - 12:30 PM, said:

On the topic of quirks for lights-
Probably not possible without an engineer but I'd love to see things like a base percentage of Radar Derp and Seismic for the some, Sensor Range and Info Gathering for others. "New Quirks"

Agility proposal looks pretty good, we got to do it live to really see. Thanks for the effort!!

If possible those have been discussed as new unique quirks. Don't know if possible though.

[CanadianCyrus]

I like the proposed changes. Night Gyr getting some much needed love.

[cougurt]

Nightbird, on 04 May 2021 - 09:55 AM, said:

https://leaderboard....h?u=Gas+Guzzler

I'm just waiting for someone who actually runs lights to say lights are fine, so they are actually hurt by their statement. It is easy for an assault pilot to say lights are fine.

https://leaderboard....earch?u=dario03

i'm not sure a light pilot's observation of the state of light mechs is necessarily going to be any less biased. i think ideally you would want someone who's experienced and proficient with all weight classes for the closest thing to an objective analysis. however, i have faith that there's enough collective experience among the cauldron that they will come to a reasonable consensus.

[YueFei]

I think the best way to evaluate weight class balance is to see what the top teams would freely choose in private lobby team matches with no restrictions on tonnage. I think Comp matches typically have some artificially-imposed restrictions on them, so I'd be more interested to see if any teams would bring every single weight class (including Lights) if they weren't forced to bring them.

After all, the NFL imposes no weight class limits. It doesn't force teams to field X% of 300+ pounders, Y% of 250-299 pounders, Z% of 200-249 pounders, etc. Teams just organically take to the field with athletes of a variety of weight classes, because the design of the game favors such a balanced approach. They don't stack the field with 11 dudes who are all 300+ pounds even though they could if they wanted to.

[The6thMessenger]

Gas Guzzler, on 04 May 2021 - 09:42 AM, said:

Aside from sucking at this game in general lately, my biggest problem with lights has always been not being patient enough.

Yep, me too.

[w0qj]

+1
Jenners (before the infamous Rescaling) were able to run under the diagonal ramp hole near the top platform in the HPG Manifold.

feeWAIVER, on 04 May 2021 - 11:56 AM, said:

...I used to love jenners and firestarters until they got rescaled.

Anyways, I don't know what the answer is, but if someone asked me what lights need, "more agility" isn't the answer that would first come to mind.

Because relatively, they are already the most agile mechs I have.

[Stonefalcon]

[Darian DelFord]

Capt Deadpool, on 04 May 2021 - 11:42 AM, said:

@ Darian, what D A T A was somewhat implying regarding why many experienced light pilots take survival nodes, albeit a bit ungraciously, is that lights really should never be taking full broadsides. We take fractions of laser fire at a time, if at all, and try to avoid at all costs getting hit by PPFLD. Even in the legs, which you should try to use terrain to hide if you can. And so even small increases in armor from the skill tree are going to be extremely helpful in mitigating the laser fire that whittles away at us over time. i.e., 3 pts of armor in a light is very different than 3 points of armor in a heavy or an assault because we are not taking the same type of damage.

I understand this, and alot more about lights. However in the original statement he makes way way to many assumptions that are just not the case. With that being said, I stopped playing FP a long time ago. Got fed up with it honestly. FP is not QP and QP is not FP, they are completely different metrics. And to my knowledge FP is a much much smaller percentage of players. The point I am making is simple. If a chassis has to completely use a skill section to just barely and I mean barely remain survivable...... there is a problem.

IMHO I do not think to to many lights need agility buffs........ (So long as the re-scale actually happens, if not then yes many do.) However most lights do need surviveability quriks. Especially with the PPFLD increase that just happened.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 04 May 2021 - 05:24 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Gas Guzzler, on 04 May 2021 - 09:52 AM, said:

Does anyone think lights don't need to be more agile? I would say most do, some don't.

Khobai does.

To an extent, I agree that more mobility to the already performing mechs would be overkill and would have diminishing returns, but honestly so what? Make em fun.

But honestly my concern is that they end up too small and too reliant on speed for survivability, that the specific counters for them such as Streaks have this stigma as a result.

Just make them a bit larger and give armor quirks to compensate. My god.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 04 May 2021 - 05:39 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

The6thMessenger, on 04 May 2021 - 05:38 PM, said:

Just make them a bit larger and give armor quirks to compensate. My god.

They did that to the Jenners, look what happened to them

[The6thMessenger]

Darian DelFord, on 04 May 2021 - 06:01 PM, said:

They did that to the Jenners, look what happened to them

They did it wrong. Like why dafuq they just transferred armor from arm to torso instead of just quirking it?

[FupDup]

Darian DelFord, on 04 May 2021 - 06:01 PM, said:

They did that to the Jenners, look what happened to them

Jenners don't have armor quirks, they have structure. Messenger is implying something along the lines of Urbie armor treatment plus embiggening for all lights.

It would technically work from a statistical balance point of view, but it would be pretty boring IMO since it would really blur the line between the light and medium classes. I like that some lights act like mediums and some mediums act like lights, but they're special precisely because they're the exception rather than the rule.

[Darian DelFord]

The6thMessenger, on 04 May 2021 - 06:02 PM, said:

They did it wrong. Like why dafuq they just transferred armor from arm to torso instead of just quirking it?

been wondering that for years now..... absolutely no light pilots asked for that...... they did the complete opposite.

FupDup, on 04 May 2021 - 06:05 PM, said:

Jenners don't have armor quirks, they have structure. Messenger is implying something along the lines of Urbie armor treatment plus embiggening for all lights.

It would technically work from a statistical balance point of view, but it would be pretty boring IMO since it would really blur the line between the light and medium classes. I like that some lights act like mediums and some mediums act like lights, but they're special precisely because they're the exception rather than the rule.

Yeah I know he did, but still kinda relevant.....