230 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 05 May 2021 - 07:48 AM, said:

The Vulcan is a medium, with 76 accel, 106 tun, 189 twist. It also has JJs.

The Firestarters that fill the same role as the Vulcan? 63 accel, 90 turn, 155 twist

The Javelins that fill the same role at 10 tons lighter, far less armor, structure, and weapons? 74-110-162

Cheeta, same role on the clan side? 68-85-155

Don't forget the OP Jenners, Ravens, and Osiris...

Less armor, less structure, less weapons, less agility = balance? Good one!

Wouldn't that make it SOME lights?

But given that they are typically played as lights, viper, cicada, assassin, and they are comparatively big, that's what they gone for.

EDIT:

Eh, they're nerfing Vulcan, oh well.

Hopefully they nerf assassins too. **** those *******.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 05 May 2021 - 04:07 PM.

[Nightbird]

The6thMessenger, on 05 May 2021 - 04:04 PM, said:

EDIT:

Eh, they're nerfing Vulcan, oh well.

Hopefully they nerf assassins too. **** those *******.

Ash said joking at the end of his post. I'd be OK with it if they did but the Cauldron's MO is not nerfing fun things so that's unlikely.

[Khobai]

denAirwalkerrr, on 03 May 2021 - 02:35 AM, said:

And here I thought what game needs is to be fun to play instead of needing almost about 10 seconds to twist away 65 degrees and back to enemies in a lot of current heavies and assaults.

10 seconds is a gross overexaggeration lmao.

if assaults had smaller hitboxes the necessity of torso twisting would be reduced because the damage would be more likely to spread across multiple hitboxes instead of all going into a single hitbox.

Again the problem with most assaults is scaling. its not the lack of mobility. assaults arnt supposed to be mobile. they are supposed to have difficulty tracking lights. however assaults should also not have to worry about their hitboxes being so huge that they continually get hit in the same hit location with every attack.

smaller scaling accomplishes the same effect of spreading damage that faster torso twisting does without giving assaults the ability to track lights more easily. it maintains rolewarfare by making assaults tougher while simultaneously maintaining the mobility advantage of lights over assaults. the whole problem is that most assaults are too damn big with the best example being the massively oversized king crab.

Increasing the mobility of assaults is a lazy fix and the wrong way to go about fixing the game. It doesnt promote role warfare it detracts from it. Lights will be worse off as a result.

Edited by Khobai, 05 May 2021 - 04:42 PM.

[PraetorGix]

It seems you were a bit shy with the KDK-3 changes, It's ok for it to be the least agile of the chassis, but not by that margin IMO.
Happy to see the Timby will be able to move faster than a thawing glacier now.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 05 May 2021 - 04:34 PM, said:

10 seconds is a gross overexaggeration lmao.

if assaults had smaller hitboxes the necessity of torso twisting would be reduced because the damage would be more likely to spread across multiple hitboxes instead of all going into a single hitbox.

Again the problem with most assaults is scaling. its not the lack of mobility. assaults arnt supposed to be mobile. they are supposed to have difficulty tracking lights. however assaults should also not have to worry about their hitboxes being so huge that they continually get hit in the same hit location with every attack.

smaller scaling accomplishes the same effect of spreading damage that faster torso twisting does without giving assaults the ability to track lights more easily. it maintains rolewarfare by making assaults tougher while simultaneously maintaining the mobility advantage of lights over assaults.

Increasing the mobility of assaults is a lazy fix and the wrong way to go about fixing the game. It doesnt promote role warfare it detracts from it.

Just wanna nitpick here that smaller assaults would mean that they could somewhat more easily track lights because they wouldn't be towering so high above them (perspective/firing angles) and the torso pitch deadzone would be made smaller (assuming lights stayed the same size).

[Darian DelFord]

Jman5, on 05 May 2021 - 02:47 PM, said:

The problem is that at a certain skill level, players become VERY good at hitting lights with those big alphas. On top of that, most light builds use short range weapons. You have to get in close, but the closer you get the easier you are to hit.

Jman gets it as usual

Capt Deadpool, on 05 May 2021 - 03:33 PM, said:

Booooooo!

Oh not disputing that at all, was just elucidating the reasons lights take survival nodes when on the surface it seems to offer little benefit relative to other classes.

Here is the thing about survival tree. Does it help yes..... will it protect you from 2 "COMMON" PPFLD probably not. Something that has not been said here is this.

There is NO objection that most assaults can 1-2 shot a light, I think I can safely say most agree with this. However it would take a "common" light build what 10+ alphas to be able to take out an assault if they to specced survival tree. Lets face it, the amount of armor some of these mechs have is high, it takes a light forever to chew on it with skill levels being equal.

A good assault pilot will protect whatever weak area they have....... However all that assault pilot needs is 1 shot to knock a light out or possibly two shots. The odds significantly favor the assault in most cases.....

This is assuming 2 pilots of equal skill.

[The6thMessenger]

Khobai, on 05 May 2021 - 04:34 PM, said:

Again the problem with most assaults is scaling. its not the lack of mobility. assaults arnt supposed to be mobile. they are supposed to have difficulty tracking lights. however assaults should also not have to worry about their hitboxes being so huge that they continually get hit in the same hit location with every attack.

Why can't we just have both?

Why assaults can't be mobile? Just because they are assaults? That's just wrong.

Khobai, on 05 May 2021 - 04:34 PM, said:

Increasing the mobility of assaults is a lazy fix and the wrong way to go about fixing the game. It doesnt promote role warfare it detracts from it. Lights will be worse off as a result.

I agree that the game needs more role warfare, but mobility is literally irrelevant from it. Make it smaller or immobile, it's not going to matter if the weapons are basically just the same.

The weapons themselves need more role specialization:

LRMs IDF locked to NARC or TAG requiring spotters would provide better role warfare.

ECMs in counter-mode providing reticle shake would provide better role-warfare and incentivizes getting enemies into ECM range.

BAP providing passive UAV-like effect within 180m would also incentivizes scouting.

Command Console allowing multiple target-lockons would also incentivizes scouting. Steiner Scout Lance says hi.

These are just ideas, game mechanics, and unfortunately beyond the scope of Mobility Pass. These, or something like these is what you need with Role Warfare, actual mechanics.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 05 May 2021 - 06:28 PM.

[cougurt]

FupDup, on 05 May 2021 - 02:39 PM, said:

I mean...in regards to the Vulcan vs. lights dilemma there's a really simple solution that people seem to be overlooking.

Just don't buff the Vulcan in the mobility pass. Leave it where it is now. Yes, really. I know, it sounds crazy, but I like crazy.

as far as i can tell it isn't being buffed, its agility values are only being rounded up to whole numbers like everything else. i guess technically it's a buff, but in practice i doubt that it will make a perceivable difference.

[Surefoot]

Nightbird, on 04 May 2021 - 09:44 AM, said:

My claim is that over the course of 10065 QP games, he played 49% in assaults, compared with 21% in lights. If I am wrong, prove it and I'll say I am wrong.

These guys primarily play FP where they usually drop heaviest first from their drop deck. Conquest mode might be the exception, but otherwise there's no more than 1 or 2 lights in first drop for scouting and such.
They are very competent light pilots by the way, and are absolutely lethal in wolf packs. Dunno what you are trying to prove here.

Edited by Surefoot, 06 May 2021 - 01:38 AM.

[Dauntless Blint]

AlphaStrikeFire, on 03 May 2021 - 07:11 AM, said:

What is the concern about speed? I know about the resizing, but I wasn’t around when speed got nerfed, so I don’t know what you’re talking about. Is it KPH speed, or is it torso mobility, or is it both?

In the old days my XL360 King Crab used to go 62.3km ph with the tech upgrades. She could twist despite arguably having the biggest CT hitbox in the game.
A' come on baby, let's do the twist, Chubby Checker an the Fat Boy's, gonna do the twist.
Ultra 5's got so hamstringed (as they probably should have?) she won't ever return to full glory but at least now if I'm at 50% armor it won't mean I'm crit CT and oneshot ready so often hopefully. Slowly moved to the Marauder 4L.
I used to pride myself on sustained dakka assaults.
It'll probably be a dialed back version of this mobility wise depending on what happens to the tech tree.

[w0qj]

Mech rescaling v2.0 is 100% in the realm of MWO/PGI's work;
it's completely outside of Gulag/Cauldron's scope of work.

Here's to hoping that MWO/PGI would commit to a firm timeline for mech rescaling!

Khobai, on 05 May 2021 - 04:34 PM, said:

10 seconds is a gross overexaggeration lmao.

if assaults had smaller hitboxes the necessity of torso twisting would be reduced because the damage would be more likely to spread across multiple hitboxes instead of all going into a single hitbox.

Again the problem with most assaults is scaling. its not the lack of mobility. assaults arnt supposed to be mobile. they are supposed to have difficulty tracking lights. however assaults should also not have to worry about their hitboxes being so huge that they continually get hit in the same hit location with every attack.

smaller scaling accomplishes the same effect of spreading damage that faster torso twisting does without giving assaults the ability to track lights more easily. it maintains rolewarfare by making assaults tougher while simultaneously maintaining the mobility advantage of lights over assaults. the whole problem is that most assaults are too damn big with the best example being the massively oversized king crab.

Increasing the mobility of assaults is a lazy fix and the wrong way to go about fixing the game. It doesnt promote role warfare it detracts from it. Lights will be worse off as a result.