56 replies to this topic

[Tarl Cabot]

Using JZ excel sheets for the approximation, OP PSR went down with a -1pt w/333 MS, with a -0.9 before rounding. Player w/340 MS likely got the equal sign with a -0.4. The top 3 on the losing side went up.

Remember, (edit) there are 3 components to that PSR table. Changing the C component (Team: Match avg) does little. Changing the X component (WLR component) from 5 to 4 has a biggest shift of the 3 components, bringing the OP to breaking even with 0.1 rounded down to 0, and player w/340 MS w/0.6 rounding up to 1.

On the winning team, the player w/217 MS had a 0.9 shift, rounding that up to 1.0pt. Player w/212 MS may have broken even or had an up arrow, as his shift was 0.5

The top winning player earned 24 pts and top losing player earned 9pts, the lowest player on winning side dropped 12pts, on the losing side dropped 17pts.

What is funny is if one of the lower scoring players on the losing side had a lower MS difference of 100 MS pts (119 MS instead of 219 MS) the OP would received the equal sign....

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 15 May 2021 - 02:03 PM.

[Wildstreak]

Either the whole system needs fixing for this and lack of rewarding playing the objective or at least Lights and possibly others need PSR quirks.

Meanwhile I will continue not taking this game seriously because there is no reason to do so.

Edited by Wildstreak, 14 May 2021 - 05:45 AM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

w0qj, on 14 May 2021 - 04:10 AM, said:

1. Just curious, for your below HBR-Prime where you did 1500+ damage and 2kills/1assist,
did you use 100% HBR-Prime torso parts for that Set-of-8 bonus of -10% Heat generated?
(I'm thinking of getting the HBR-Prime(I) myself...)

2. I recently saw a newly returned player playing T4/T5 game in a standard variant Stormcrow, and he mixed/matched torso for max energy build. He had 900+ match score, doing 1600+ damage (I died, and happened to spectate in his cockpit by chance for the remaining half of the HPG Manifold QP game. He had 6 kills). so your below game match points & damage sounded about right!

that hellbringer (see trial) can add up an impressive number of damage if the matchtime permits it. hell, even in quick matches it's great.

you can totally pack a sh*tload of laserhardpoints onto a stormcrow, and then add some SRM on top if you like. thing is that a crow is rather squishy and that loadout is knifefighting-distance. but if the opposition ignores you, that is probably the build a stormcrow does the most damage with.*

*or vice versa - you got 5-6srm and lazorfist(s) on top.

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 14 May 2021 - 06:25 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Darian DelFord, on 14 May 2021 - 05:19 AM, said:

And this here, is the real issue. Lets face it, we all know that Damage is king for the match score. Skill vs Skill, a heavy / assault will usually score much higher simply because they have higher damage output. So it is very weighted against light mechs, especially since the last weapons patch. I posted this just to illustrate my point. I know full well PGI won't fix this, but come on.

The real issue is - you don't get the real issue. Excellent lights all top Jarls and get very high average match scores consistently each season.

I'll give you the hot tip - they aren't doing this because they are bad players.

[martian]

Darian DelFord, on 14 May 2021 - 05:19 AM, said:

Honestly I did not know that. NO where near as active as I used to be. I knew they reset everything a yearish ago and made it a bit more difficult (which I kinda agreed with) but to me this is what drives dedicated light players nuts.

I should warn you beforehand that mathematics is not my forte.

Anyway, I did the maths and the result is -1,422 (with some rounding), i.e. minus one and a half point. Thus, your PSR loss is minimal.

Actually, the "=" sign would suit you better, especially since you piloted a light 'Mech.

[Capt Deadpool]

justcallme A S H, on 14 May 2021 - 06:28 AM, said:

The real issue is - you don't get the real issue. Excellent lights all top Jarls and get very high average match scores consistently each season.

I'll give you the hot tip - they aren't doing this because they are bad players.

You are not wrong, Ash. But I think you and Darian are talking past each other a little bit.

Within the context of this thread, yeah he wasn't one of the top performers on the losing team and the PSR drop amount likely wasn't that big of deal; players just see "REDDDD ARRRRROW!!!!" and get upset.

I don't think Darian believes he is one of the top Jarl performers, and it is a good point to make that very good pilots playing some of the non useless light chassis can of course perform very well. But the wider point, which I know you and everyone is aware of, is that it is far easier for the vaaaaast majority of players to perform well and help their team win more often by selecting a mech from within the current class meta of mediums/heavies/assaults.

Edited by Capt Deadpool, 14 May 2021 - 12:56 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Darian DelFord, on 14 May 2021 - 05:19 AM, said:

And this here, is the real issue. Lets face it, we all know that Damage is king for the match score. Skill vs Skill, a heavy / assault will usually score much higher simply because they have higher damage output. So it is very weighted against light mechs, especially since the last weapons patch. I posted this just to illustrate my point. I know full well PGI won't fix this, but come on.

From playing a bunch of lights recently, I noticed that you are able to start putting damage down much sooner, and also have 100% less chance of getting out-rotated and ganked from behind because you are going 48.6 kph. Must be nice.

If only there was more variety of weapon loadouts for light mechs, I would use them more. It can get a bit dry and 1 dimensional though using the same 6-8 ton loadouts on everything.

[XX Sulla XX]

I thought the main issue with PSR is that it is to easy to go up? And because of that issue every one that is a tiny bit above average keeps moving up and are forced into games that are dominated by better players.

[crazytimes]

XX Sulla XX, on 14 May 2021 - 01:35 PM, said:

I thought the main issue with PSR is that it is to easy to go up? And because of that issue every one that is a tiny bit above average keeps moving up and are forced into games that are dominated by better players.

It is not as easy as it was to go up, but you can definitely get people towards the average that still end up at tier 1. Like me. But that is because every now and again I will offset crappy matches with a handful of spectacular ones. By which I mean some good group carries while I farm damage.

Given the match maker and population base- depending on who is online, the difference in players between tier 1-3 isn't much. Tier 1 matchmaking includes 60% of the player base still, it's only the bottom 40% they don't see, so it's not like you're consistently going to be against excellent players.

I am not saying the PSR system or MM is great by any means- but it is not just the XP bar it was.

[Wildstreak]

It also does not help Lights when you get those Conquest matches and non-Lights complain if you do not cap.

Everyone knows what happens if you are the Light Mech, cap a lot, do little damage and win.

Red Arrow of Shame. Punished because you did your role and your team thanked you for it while those bigger Mechs got Green Arrows.

I had a Conquest match on Grim Plexus recently in a Wolfhound, we also had a Panther and UrbanMech. Me and the Urbie went to different cap points at start, he ran into enemies and with the Panther joined the team nearby in fighting. I was the only capper and got caught but that is not the main point.

Main point is why did the Panther and Urbie not prioritize capping? You know why, they wanted their Green Arrows so they fought while non-Lights kept complaining those 2 would not cap, I heard it on open comms constant non-stop complaining about our Lights sucking for not capping.

Great system in some alternate reality but not this world.

Edited by Wildstreak, 14 May 2021 - 04:17 PM.

[Incredible Alk]

The Moment when you tank +1200 DMG and get ranked down ....the moment you are make top dmg in team and just get equaled....., i cant ignore the psr ranking system, it hurts my gamersole. i was tier 1 a month ago, now im tier 3 and i dont know why, it feels i get ranked down every single match. When im good, my team loses, when im bad im on the winning team and still get ranked down, when i tank the hell for my team seeing nothing i get ranked down....., it feels bad to me and takes the fun away. I do not understand how people stay in tier 1 but i respect it, imho im not a bad player, i can mess with everybody i know the game mechanics but this scoring system confuses me.

[Brokmuk]

Incredible Alk, on 14 May 2021 - 04:48 PM, said:

The Moment when you tank +1200 DMG and get ranked down ....the moment you are make top dmg in team and just get equaled....., i cant ignore the psr ranking system, it hurts my gamersole. i was tier 1 a month ago, now im tier 3 and i dont know why, it feels i get ranked down every single match. When im good, my team loses, when im bad im on the winning team and still get ranked down, when i tank the hell for my team seeing nothing i get ranked down....., it feels bad to me and takes the fun away. I do not understand how people stay in tier 1 but i respect it, imho im not a bad player, i can mess with everybody i know the game mechanics but this scoring system confuses me.

wrote it with the wrong account.....Icredible Alk is my alt account.....

[Vxheous]

Incredible Alk, on 14 May 2021 - 04:48 PM, said:

The Moment when you tank +1200 DMG and get ranked down ....the moment you are make top dmg in team and just get equaled....., i cant ignore the psr ranking system, it hurts my gamersole. i was tier 1 a month ago, now im tier 3 and i dont know why, it feels i get ranked down every single match. When im good, my team loses, when im bad im on the winning team and still get ranked down, when i tank the hell for my team seeing nothing i get ranked down....., it feels bad to me and takes the fun away. I do not understand how people stay in tier 1 but i respect it, imho im not a bad player, i can mess with everybody i know the game mechanics but this scoring system confuses me.

Brokmuk, on 14 May 2021 - 04:50 PM, said:

wrote it with the wrong account.....Icredible Alk is my alt account.....

Tanking damage means nothing, other than you stood in the open and got farmed. If that's how you want to play, that's fine, but it's not going to help your PSR, so you might as well just ignore PSR completely.

[Leone]

I mean, I do ignore PSR, but I gotta say, I am suitably impressed when someone manages to spread damage and come out under 20% on a win.

Not sure one can tank twelve hundred outside of CW though.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 14 May 2021 - 07:32 PM.

[Baelfire]

justcallme A S H, on 14 May 2021 - 06:28 AM, said:

The real issue is - you don't get the real issue. Excellent lights all top Jarls and get very high average match scores consistently each season.

I'll give you the hot tip - they aren't doing this because they are bad players.

Well, the Jarl's List already uses an adjusted Score to compare the different weight classes, which seems to be pretty much what Darain is asking for.

Edited by Baelfire, 14 May 2021 - 10:13 PM.

[martian]

Incredible Alk, on 14 May 2021 - 04:48 PM, said:

The Moment when you tank +1200 DMG and get ranked down ....the moment you are make top dmg in team and just get equaled....., i cant ignore the psr ranking system, it hurts my gamersole. i was tier 1 a month ago, now im tier 3 and i dont know why, it feels i get ranked down every single match. When im good, my team loses, when im bad im on the winning team and still get ranked down, when i tank the hell for my team seeing nothing i get ranked down....., it feels bad to me and takes the fun away. I do not understand how people stay in tier 1 but i respect it, imho im not a bad player, i can mess with everybody i know the game mechanics but this scoring system confuses me.

Brokmuk, on 14 May 2021 - 04:50 PM, said:

wrote it with the wrong account.....Icredible Alk is my alt account.....

We discussed it in this thread already: Mwo - Old Player - Rank

Without you posting both the Mission Summary Team Table and the Mission Summary Player Table, it is pointless to talk about if you deserve the red arrow or not.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Wildstreak, on 14 May 2021 - 04:16 PM, said:

It also does not help Lights when you get those Conquest matches and non-Lights complain if you do not cap.

Everyone knows what happens if you are the Light Mech, cap a lot, do little damage and win.

Red Arrow of Shame. Punished because you did your role and your team thanked you for it while those bigger Mechs got Green Arrows.

I had a Conquest match on Grim Plexus recently in a Wolfhound, we also had a Panther and UrbanMech. Me and the Urbie went to different cap points at start, he ran into enemies and with the Panther joined the team nearby in fighting. I was the only capper and got caught but that is not the main point.

Main point is why did the Panther and Urbie not prioritize capping? You know why, they wanted their Green Arrows so they fought while non-Lights kept complaining those 2 would not cap, I heard it on open comms constant non-stop complaining about our Lights sucking for not capping.

Great system in some alternate reality but not this world.

It gets even better than that. I had this match a week or two ago in my SDR-5V.



We lost four mechs less than two minutes after contact with little or no reciprocal damage and the match was obviously already lost, so I went for the cap while my team was being slaughtered. Only two of my teammates did anything, the JVN and one of the heavies screened for me and killed the first two people to come back to stop the cap. The three of us saved what would have been something like a 12-4 and made a victory out of it, but the rewards damned sure didn't show it.

[Dionnsai]

[Dionnsai]

Like previously mentioned, this PSR system is not intended to be a rewards system, but instead is intended to be a matchmaker to match you against similarly skilled opponents. It's not perfect, but if you play at the level you linked in your post and you win more matches than you lose, you will rise on balance.

The previous PSR system was definitely a rewards system or XP bar that patted players on the back to give them feelsgood regardless of whether they performed well or not.

[Capt Deadpool]

There really should be a separate 'grind bar' that people can grind for feel goods and e-peen stuff to distract from PSR, and which could help retain players like other games utilize. Every 25 levels or so you get a 0.5% increase in cbill generation or a % greater chance at quantity or quality of supply cache or something.

And rename the current PSR tiers to something more arbitrary and not psychologically triggering without the word 'tier' or numbers like: 'Matchmaker Group Red/Yellow/Blue/Green/Orange'. And name the grindy bar something with greater psychological associations with power/achievement: 'Warrior Expertise Tier 583' or 'Battle Prowess Rank 872'

It sounds silly, but really most of the things in life and culture that make people feel either good or bad about themselves are very silly, like how good they are at an online stompy robot game XD