104 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Anomalocaris, on 25 May 2021 - 09:37 AM, said:

p.s. you do know this account is Tier5 because I haven't played it since they did the reset, right?

I too was also reset, and I still built up my tier again. So basically you haven't played the new patch at all? And much like the other guy, you're just eyeballing the entire patch.

[Hiten Bongz]

John Bronco, on 25 May 2021 - 10:31 AM, said:

Anomalocaris, on 24 May 2021 - 05:09 PM, said:

I watched a video a day ago from a very good player who recently returned, and he was shooting down his own team's UAVs to prevent the LRM mechs that popped those UAVs from getting locks. That's not conjecture, he said as much in the video. Now, he's a toxic **** most days anyways, but I found it rather illuminating. Again, I haven't played LRMs in years save for a meme or event requirement, but I think they should have a viable place in the game, as should ATMs.

A noble act borne of extreme compassion for his fellow mechwarriors, for there is nothing more gracious than saving a fellow gamer from the vile tyranny of indirect fire.

In future times, men will name their sons after him.

Missiles, including LRMs, have always been a part of Mechwarrior and Battletech and always will be; anyone that despises them enough to be audible or toxic about it (mostly T1 tryhards and some comp players) should really stop their whining, equip more AMS, or go play something else - and stop attempting to ruin other peoples gameplay.

Edited by Hiten Bongz, 25 May 2021 - 04:27 PM.

[MrTBSC]

Hiten Bongz, on 25 May 2021 - 04:25 PM, said:

Missiles, including LRMs, have always been a part of Mechwarrior and Battletech and always will be; anyone that despises them enough to be audible or toxic about it (mostly T1 tryhards and some comp players) should really stop their whining, equip more AMS, or go play something else - and stop attempting to ruin other peoples gameplay.

in fact LRM in MWO are even more ballanced to lone LRMers to have to use TAG or Narc or UAVs and friendly targeting...

LRMs with artemis in MW3 was just straight up busted ... get BAP, get a lock, litteraly fire behind a wall and the missiles will home allong the terrain into your enemy were you are simply hidden from him ..

[Saved By The Bell]

Yeah, I want to confirm, that atm very bad now. Streaks is dead too, but atm much more dead. I used 9+9 atm sometimes by Hellfire-2, almost all missiles destroyed by ams. Shoot many times today in one fight, done 46 damage. What? Where my missiles gone? Hahaha.

After the patch, ams became good stuff for all guys, not only me.

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 31 May 2021 - 01:40 PM.

[Moochachoo]

Any build I have that use to run atm9 are now all switched over to lrm20, same tonnage same slot, less heat and faster cool down, and I don’t have to put myself at that insanely short optimal range for less potential damage.

[Hiten Bongz]

Moochachoo, on 31 May 2021 - 09:38 PM, said:

Any build I have that use to run atm9 are now all switched over to lrm20, same tonnage same slot, less heat and faster cool down, and I don’t have to put myself at that insanely short optimal range for less potential damage.

Yup...there's now too much risk for very little increased reward with ATMs, ton for ton.

RIP

[Brom96]

The changes are made to reflect the preferences of a group that makes changes. Not players in general. Nothing new.

[Leone]

Okay. So. ATMs.

I've been playing around with 'em the last two days and whilst they're not as awesome as they had been, and still feel very feast or famine, they've been doing some solid lifting in my matches. Gotta avoid ams like the plague, and dance around in the sweet spot like usual, but they've delivered the damage for me of late. Both as a primary weapon system and as an SRM accompanyment.

I think it's cuz they tend to head for center mass which still puts 'em above streaks.

~Leone.

[Khobai]

its not hard to outperform streaks though. streaks got **** on big time.

they were always a niche weapon but theyre not even good at their niche anymore.

[Dogstar]

Personally I think the problem with ATMs might be the same problem that all the lock on weapons have - the lock on mechanics

Recently I've been avoiding missiles because the gamer has gotten faster paced overall and acquiring a missile lock, other than on someone who has no clue what they're doing (or someone who has made a serious mistake), is actually harder than simply shooting lasers or ballistics.

Lock on missiles are great if you boat a load of them and can get a lock when you want, it's fun to bombard the red team and darken the skies with missiles but right now it's not a fun playstyle except once in a while, and with the upcoming agility boosts I expect lock on weapons will get even worse.

I think we need to make the lock on mechanism have a wider cone (but not back to the original width) and a quicker target acquisition. Missile boats are in a bit of disfavour at the moment and they could do with bringing back up a little bit.

[Khobai]

the lockon mechanics were fine when it didnt take all day to lock onto a target.

streaks are **** useless against lights now because its impossible to keep a tag on them and half the time theyre gone before you get a lock. if youre lucky you get one or two volleys in but with the reduced damage on clan streaks it does practically nothing to lights.

streaks arnt even good in their intended niche of being anti-light weapons anymore.

it doesnt surprise me because cauldron hates lockon weapons and **** all over them. Im surprised they havent pushed for another lrm nerf or to remove indirect fire completely.

Edited by Khobai, 05 June 2021 - 11:52 PM.

[Kroete]

Khobai, on 05 June 2021 - 07:05 PM, said:

Im surprised they havent pushed for another lrm nerf or to remove indirect fire completely.

Missed the ams and laser-ams buff?

They said there will be no nerfs: Atms nerfed, all missiles nerfed by ams/lams buffs.
They said there is no agenda ...

Higher alphas, more agility, faster gameplay, less different weapons and there it becomes the generic twich shooter.

[Wildstreak]

It may not be just changes, could also be ATMs are one of 4 weapon types in game with a Duration stat that is not listed.

[JimHatama]

why this gulag guys keep breaking things that werent broken?

[pattonesque]

JimHatama, on 15 June 2021 - 12:15 PM, said:

why this gulag guys keep breaking things that werent broken?

a volley from an ATM Veagle was 108 points of locked damage. This was extremely oppressive to light mechs and in certain circumstances could take a torso from heavies and assaults

the changes keep them powerful at optimum range (90 points is nothing to sneeze at) and improves their performance at longer ranges, making them less feast-or-famine. Try an ATM Veagle sometime, it's still a powerful mech.

[Captain Caveman DE]

pattonesque, on 15 June 2021 - 12:58 PM, said:

a volley from an ATM Veagle was 108 points of locked damage. This was extremely oppressive to light mechs and in certain circumstances could take a torso from heavies and assaults

the changes keep them powerful at optimum range (90 points is nothing to sneeze at) and improves their performance at longer ranges, making them less feast-or-famine. Try an ATM Veagle sometime, it's still a powerful mech.

yeah.. nah.
sorry, I tried it. often.

I am probably repeating myself here, but the ATM-change is the one weaponchange I consider bad.
before the patch, the veagle did impressive damage while exposing himself in the shortrange.

now, it's "okay" damage "out", with still the same damage "in".
which leads to the next step:
now you do "okay"dmg from a few feet more away, since the profile of ATMs changed to that.
and here's the catch:
I can have similar "okay" damage WITHOUT exposing myself at all via Lurms in the same range. at least over time.

the way to run ATMs for me was (pre-patch) to deliver a wicked alpha closerange, reposition slightly, repeat.
that way is gone.
there's little reason (IMO) to prefer ATMs to lurms now in any given situation, and I don't like to lurm in the first place.
so currently my veagle, a few hunchies and articfoxes are all gathering dust. a pity, I did like them.

Edited by Captain Caveman DE, 15 June 2021 - 01:57 PM.

[pattonesque]

Captain Caveman DE, on 15 June 2021 - 01:49 PM, said:

yeah.. nah.
sorry, I tried it. often.

I am probably repeating myself here, but the ATM-change is the one weaponchange I consider bad.
before the patch, the veagle did impressive damage while exposing himself in the shortrange.

now, it's "okay" damage "out", with still the same damage "in".
which leads to the next step:
now you do "okay"dmg from a few feet more away, since the profile of ATMs changed to that.
and here's the catch:
I can have similar "okay" damage WITHOUT exposing myself at all via Lurms in the same range. at least over time.

the way to run ATMs for me was (pre-patch) to deliver a wicked alpha closerange, reposition slightly, repeat.
that way is gone.
there's little reason (IMO) to prefer ATMs to lurms now in any given situation, and I don't like to lurm in the first place.
so currently my veagle, a few hunchies and articfoxes are all gathering dust. a pity, I did like them.

a 90-damage alpha isn't "OK," it's still quite good. I've played ATM Veagles before and after the patch, and while they feel less powerful now they still feel impactful.

[Captain Caveman DE]

pattonesque, on 15 June 2021 - 02:00 PM, said:

a 90-damage alpha isn't "OK," it's still quite good. I've played ATM Veagles before and after the patch, and while they feel less powerful now they still feel impactful.

don't get me wrong - I enjoy this debate. so take the next few lines in that spirit pls - no critique or offense meant

for your 90 alpha you run 3x12. My veagle runs that with some ammo and an XL 225/255 (depending on how much ammo you want). I run my gauntlet (training ground tourmaline, atlas, atlas through the back, jenner, cent, cat, awesome) in ~3:30 and has around 100 rounds left).

the same veagle, with 3xlrm20a, has a bigger engine, MORE ammo and DHS, runs WAY cooler, and finishes said gauntlet in ~2:20. with ammo left for another 5 mechs^^)

just try it yourself


yeah, poptart is SLIGTHLY less good per salvo, but just does A LOT more salvoes, so .. I don't see where the atm-veagle is still better than the lame lurmboat. oh, and it's a lot less work AND safer on top. again: not that I enjoy it.


*out of interest: a veagle-A with 4xlrm20
A_;D4051|he|VR|VRpa0|l^|l^|l^qa0rT0|5C|5CsT0|5C|5Ctd0|VR|VRud0|VR|VRv<0|VRw303030
did the same gauntlet in 2:30; so 3lrm20a are still quicker at killing than 4xlrm20.
raw-dmg numbers though are naturally better on the 4x20.
it's a different chassis, differently skilled (it runs a brawl-loadout for me), so not a real comparison. as said: out of curiosity.
and though it's not skilled for that loadout, it still beats the atm-veagle for a whole whopping minute^^


**brawly build is still quicker. thanks to minimal usage of eyeballs. @lb20+4srm6. man, I'll take THAT thing to QP the next days again. brawling is way more fun, anyway

Edited by Captain Caveman DE, 15 June 2021 - 03:18 PM.

[Doriam]

Bring back 3 damage per missile. It's was okay with health and minimum range required skill to positioning and target selection. Now it's also required but give NO BENEFITS in compare.
I predict that this statement will actually bring nerf to C-LRM or C-SRM than actual improvement to ATM.

Spoiler

We came to point where every clan weapon are worse in almost every aspect except tonnage comparing to inner sphere (And, God, I hated sphere mechs, but now they bring far more pleasure to play than clan ones).
At long range ER Large x3 do more damage than C-ER Large x2 (with better heat efficient, duration and as result cooldown).
Every clan weapon have longer cooldown that starts AFTER volley duration (missiles, lasers, ballistics - all clan weapons have less possibility to do damage to certain locations).

[1453 R]

So. Wild proposal.

Cut the minimum range off of ATMs altogether. If Piranha absolutely flat refuses to do that? Use the long-range damage number inside that minimum, whatever that number is now. ATMs are stonking heavy as hell by Clan standards, they spread damage all over, they require intense facetime, they don't benefit from TAG or NARC (reasonably sure, at least), they have exactly zero indirect fire capability, and everybody knows that simply getting within 120 meters of an ATM machine turns it off entirely - so that's exactly what everybody does.

Stop that. ATMs are supposed to be Advanced Tactical Missiles, all-range weapons that serve the warrior no matter what. Piranha's made them exceedingly vulnerable to enemy AMS? All right, fine. Piranha's made them slow-cycling and hot? Okay, sure. Whatevs. Piranha's imposed an unpleasantly low Spooky Heat limit on them to stop them from applying damage? Whatever. Piranha does that, it's just how MWO is. Piranha's made them almost strictly worse than LRMs? Fine. Whatever.

At least, let them be what they're supposed to be and FREAKING STOP turning my missiles off until they reach 120 meters. Even LRMs don't have a hard minimum - why the bloody goose farts do ATMs? They're already pointless at their otherwise-quite-nice long range, and they're mediocre at best in their medium range bracket. They have something like a ninety freaking meter band of space where they're not a waste of time. Let me have the first hundred and twenty meters, too.