127 replies to this topic

[denAirwalkerrr]

Escef, on 16 May 2021 - 12:06 PM, said:

I dunno, from what I've seen of HHoD's performance in the game, maybe they should be the ones leaving MWO for Candy Crush.

[Novakaine]

Escef, on 16 May 2021 - 12:06 PM, said:

I dunno, from what I've seen of HHoD's performance in the game, maybe they should be the ones leaving MWO for Candy Crush.

No one knows you and that's a good thing.
Again it's just a video game your passive aggressive troll is most droll, but totally expect from your ilk.

Edited by Novakaine, 16 May 2021 - 12:18 PM.

[Escef]

denAirwalkerrr, on 16 May 2021 - 12:12 PM, said:

(snip)

Oh, you got me, son! I'm mediocre at a video game! That invalidates everything I've ever said!

You're such a rube. No wonder people take advantage of you so easily. How much money have you thrown at people that despise you? Because you know the reactionaries that you idolize all see you as nothing more than a useful idiot. But, hey, go buy more of their soy-based brain pills and willy elongation cream.

Edited by Escef, 16 May 2021 - 12:20 PM.

[Damocles Commando]

I think you might have struck a nerve, denAirwalkerrr...

[Escef]

Novakaine, on 16 May 2021 - 12:15 PM, said:

No one knows you and that's a good thing.
Again it's just a video game your passive aggressive troll is most droll, but totally expect from your ilk.

Yup, nobody knows me. You are so incredibly correct. Why, if HHoD's performance was as on-target as your words, sir, they'd... still royally suck so much that a player as positively mediocre as I am can still look down on them.

[Novakaine]

RedBeard The FrostGiant, on 16 May 2021 - 12:19 PM, said:

I think you might have struck a nerve, denAirwalkerrr...

Indeed.

[SneekiBreeki]

[R79TCom1 Night Lanner]

I wonder what is going to happen when someone looks up the name "Bushwhacker."

I do feel a little dirty every time I take that 'Mech out.

Edited by R79TCom1 Night Lanner, 16 May 2021 - 12:31 PM.

[Escef]

R79TCom1 Night Lanner, on 16 May 2021 - 12:30 PM, said:

I wonder what is going to happen when someone looks up the name "Bushwhacker." ������

I do feel a little dirty every time I take that 'Mech out.

[R79TCom1 Night Lanner]

Are you suggesting FASA named a 'Mech after a couple of New Zealanders making fun of American rednecks?

[Escef]

R79TCom1 Night Lanner, on 16 May 2021 - 12:34 PM, said:

Are you suggesting FASA named a 'Mech after a couple of New Zealanders making fun of American rednecks?

No, but I've heard crazier ideas.

[Tsunari96]

people really getting triggered over Grand Dragon when YLW has rising sun flag camo

[Vlad Ward]

Novakaine, on 16 May 2021 - 12:04 PM, said:

Seriously just stop as a Black man I am not offended by the name or perceived connotation.
It's a freaking video game if people are seriously offended by it perhaps Candy Crush is the game for them.
Leave the rest of use mature adults alone.
I'm logging in to play with my Grand Dragon for the rest of the week sheesh.

Hm. I'm also a man of color and I'm not personally offended by the Grand Dragon.

With that said, Battletech (and the 80's-90's TT community as a whole) does suffer from the sort of visibility problems that tend to crop up when your demographic is overwhelmingly from one ethnic group. White saviors abound, stereotype-driven depictions of other races and cultures that get handwaved away because they're "still portrayed as good people;" it's obvious the universe was created by a bunch of people who all looked the same.

I doubt the folks who actually created the Grand Dragon for TTBT knew that there were parallels to the KKK in the name. Frankly, I don't imagine they even thought to check.

It's a worthwhile callout for a game that wants to be relevant and pick up users in the 2020's. Unless y'all are out there naming your kids after the DRG-1G, what's the harm in changing it?

Y'all really need a perspective check if "changing a fictional robot's name to avoid incidental KKK references" is what gets your blood pumping.

[Y E O N N E]

OP, you are picking a weirdly selective hill to die on.

[Escef]

Tsunari96, on 16 May 2021 - 12:36 PM, said:

people really getting triggered over Grand Dragon when YLW has rising sun flag camo

There was a thread a long time back where people asked why a Hero mech named after a Chinese god, with a culturally Chinese/Capellan pilot has a camo scheme evocative of the flag Japan used in WWII.

[Novakaine]

I truly fear for humanities collective future.

[HammerMaster]

Jables McBarty, on 16 May 2021 - 08:36 AM, said:

https://en.wikipedia..._and_vocabulary

PGI needs to remove KKK references from this game.

I'm tired of seeing a reference to racist POS's every time I press R.

By putting the Grand Dragon into MWO, PGI has made clear what kind of player they want.

I at least am done spending money on MWO until the Grand Dragon has been renamed. I don't care what the name is, I don't care if this is Lore-Friendly or not or whatever, it's racist and it has to go.



And I'm likely to stop playing. It's exhausting to see this crap, and it makes the game less fun.

EDITED TO ADD:

If you think I am being overly sensitive and you live in North America, maybe just google Grand Dragon and see what pops up. I'm on a VPN and a Private Browsing Session and the first five results are about the KKK. Then a few hotels in Asia. Then more KKK results.

If you aren't from North America, then I understand you may not know about the KKK or the fact that high ranking officers from the Klan were called Grand Dragons. Now you know.

(Oh, and the BT 'mech is nowhere on the front page.)

I hope your kidding because it has NOTHING to do with what you think it does.

[Tsunari96]

Escef, on 16 May 2021 - 12:39 PM, said:

There was a thread a long time back where people asked why a Hero mech named after a Chinese god, with a culturally Chinese/Capellan pilot has a camo scheme evocative of the flag Japan used in WWII.

yet here we are, nothing changed (unfortunately)

[Escef]

Vlad Ward, on 16 May 2021 - 12:39 PM, said:

I doubt the folks who actually created the Grand Dragon for TTBT knew that there were parallels to the KKK in the name. Frankly, I don't imagine they even thought to check.

That's my assumption as well. It's generally safest to assume a lack of ill intent unless otherwise has been proven. Granted, that mindset is also what has allowed some racially motivated policies to survive to the present day. I believe the best policy, in such a case, is the adage, "Trust, but verify."

In all seriousness, I do not believe Jordan Weisman (co-founder of FASA, the company that the Battletech/Mechwarrior IP originated from) could have a 40 year long career in the industry and be a white supremacist/KKK-supporter without somebody in the industry ratting him out. Let's be honest, there are game designers out there that are prima donnas, and if any of those types were somehow offended at some point by Weisman and got wind of something they could use to smear him with? I fully believe they'd do so. But after 40 years? Nothing? Occam's Razor, the explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely the correct one. He hasn't been smeared with this crap because it isn't there to smear him with.

That said, there are a lot of people in the industry that actively avoid talking too much crap about the scumbags specifically because they know that there is a small segment of the gaming community that holds such beliefs. And those folks tend to spend irresponsibly on games. I mean, would you want to tell these people to not economically slit their own throats while enriching you? Would you object to them blowing their rent money on your games, forcing them into homelessness or moving in with their moms? I would, but I'm a freakin' hobbyist; I don't expect to make money off of games, so I don't care if anything I say drives them away from me... Correction, I do care, I want those types as far from me as possible. I know they'll still blow their money, and I would prefer to not touch money that was passed to me directly by their hands.

As for the unfortunate coincidence of the Grand Dragon sharing its name with a KKK leadership rank? I think, perhaps, the best solution would be to use Japanese names. The Ryu and the O-Ryu. Or some variation thereof. One might note that as the internet became a thing, thus making languages easier for the average person to research, a lot of mechs started getting names from the languages associated with the factions that use them. (A lot of mechs published after TRO 3055 have Japanese, Chinese, and German names. E.g.: The Shugenja, the Jinggau, the Hauptmann, etc.)

Edited by Escef, 16 May 2021 - 01:16 PM.

[SPNKRGrenth]

Granad Dagron. Done, renamed.