619 replies to this topic

[Elric-]

just woundering if others feel that light mechs are too powerful. in my opinion with a decent pilot a light is the most powerful mech in the game. I have witnessed to many times a light run around the feet of another mech, take him out move on to the next take him out etc, with me in my med mech trying to protect him often with others trying to hit the little guy, and alot of the time he turns to me and takes me out. if this were real world nobody in there right mind would ever drive anything but a light mech. in my opinion a light mech should be a scout (getting targets for LRMs, leaders calling out targets. electronic counter measures etc)

[Leone]

85 damage. That's how much I ended with on one match where I got in a light fight with a piranha and swept the legs, securing a solo kill before their team got to me. And I'm sure some of that was spread. Checking now... the actual amount needed is 64 damage.

Sure, they speed tank. Heck, I've a thread on light tanking. Doesn't make 'em more powerful. Just different.

The issue is lone slow mechs without arm mounts. Got a mate at ~200m to shoot the light offa ya? You're good. Got light packed? Well, image those were all dakka kodiaks. Think you'd fare better? As a light pilot I can tell you that we are not all powerful.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 09 June 2021 - 10:45 AM.

[Wid1046]

If they were overpowered they'd be the most popular weight class. Instead they are the least popular weight class.

They are a high risk, high reward weight class with the 20 tonners in particular being very good in expert hand and utter trash in the hands of most players. That's why despite some seeming to be great you don't actually see very many light mechs in most games (this month is a bit different from usual since they've given all players two new light mechs to skill up). I can't get most lights to work for me, but I have respect for those who can get them to work.

[martian]

0Elric0, on 09 June 2021 - 10:37 AM, said:

just woundering if others feel that light mechs are too powerful. in my opinion with a decent pilot a light is the most powerful mech in the game. I have witnessed to many times a light run around the feet of another mech, take him out move on to the next take him out etc, with me in my med mech trying to protect him often with others trying to hit the little guy, and alot of the time he turns to me and takes me out.

In higher Tiers you can find pilots with much better gunnery skills who can often kill or criple a light 'Mech with one shot.

0Elric0, on 09 June 2021 - 10:37 AM, said:

if this were real world nobody in there right mind would ever drive anything but a light mech.

Light 'Mechs are more fragile than you think.

0Elric0, on 09 June 2021 - 10:37 AM, said:

in my opinion a light mech should be a scout (getting targets for LRMs, leaders calling out targets. electronic counter measures etc)

In MWO the best way how you can help your team - both as a light 'Mech pilot or as an Assault 'Mech pilot. - is to kill enemy 'Mechs.

Good LRM-boats drivers can get their own locks.

Good leaders often pilot Heavy or Assaults, which means that they can deal a lot of damage on top of their "Commander" role.

As for the electronic support, today there are many 'Mechs that can be equipped with ECM, BAP, etc. The days when the only 'Mechs capable of carrying ECM were Atlas-D-DC, Spider and Raven are history.

[Vindicated]

Light mechs are OP. You know why? Because people don't shoot them. Maybe they can't but a lot of times, it's that people straight up DON'T WANT to.

How do you solve that? Shoot them. Seriously, you hit a piranha once and he's legged or loses half his weapons if not straight up dying.

[Leone]

___, on 09 June 2021 - 10:52 AM, said:

Every other game my mech is face down in the dirt, 30 seconds in, because some light mech zipped behind me and got me with a cheap one shot kill. Thanks, Cauldron.

It doesnt matter how little hp they have when they can run around the map twice before you can even blink. Sometimes a light will run past me and it wont even register... its simply WAY too fast.

Umm, cauldron hasn't really gotten around to mobility buffs for all mechs yet. So... unless those were Firestarters, cauldron aint done nothin' yet bout that.

~Leone

[Capt Deadpool]

0elric0,

As Wid said, lights are the least-played class because they typically require a higher skilled player to even begin to approach the effectiveness of the present meta of mediums/heavies/assaults. On top of that, the light class as recently been effectively nerfed due to the recent weapon buffs of many weapons that are highly effective against light mechs as well as upcoming mobility buffs for non-lights. Many of us are actually waiting for some much-needed buffs to the light class that the Cauldron is presently working on.

Being Tier 5, what you likely encountered was an alt-account of a higher skilled player who was either intentionally seal-clubbing or attempting to Tier-up a new account. I empathize with you and can confirm that this is a problem, as the last time I made an alt and was playing a light I had an 11-kill game soon after... Another possibility is that the light pilot was Tier 3 and feasting on some Tier 5 players that did not know how to counter him/her. But as others above have mentioned, as players go up in tier, there is more knowledge of how to counter lights than there is at tier 5.

Sorry you had such a poor experience, but I don't expect you will encounter the same problems consistently. If you do, I'd suggest researching weapons and builds that are more effective against lights such as short duration lasers, SRM's, streaks, and mediums and heavy mechs with good mobility. PPFLD weapons are highly effective against lights at higher tiers where players have better aim, and these are some of the weapons that have recently been buffed.

Edited by Capt Deadpool, 09 June 2021 - 11:45 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Conquest match on Frozen City classic yesterday, piloting Marauder 3R (2 PPC, 2 AC/5). I headed to the Theta cap alone, encountered two stealth locusts and a stealth flea. Danced with them for quite some time but killed all three by one-shotting side torsos. Game ended shortly thereafter. My total damage done... 85.

The wolf pack of them wasn't so much the threat to me, it was the match score penalty I received for only encountering and killing tiny mechs. Sigh.

[Captain Caveman DE]

now here's a tip if anybody says "X is OP .."

try it yourself; in this case 'try a light'.
you'll quickly find out it's not OP. you'll also find out that it's a lot of fun, but a lot more WORK to get the dmg-numbers (and therefore xp and payout) you get by playing a heavy or an assault. or sipping a morning coffee and reading a newspaper, while piloting a backfield-lurmer.

grass is always greener, you know..

Edited by Captain Caveman DE, 09 June 2021 - 11:09 AM.

[martian]

Wid1046, on 09 June 2021 - 10:47 AM, said:

If they were overpowered they'd be the most popular weight class. Instead they are the least popular weight class.

You made a very good point.

___, on 09 June 2021 - 10:52 AM, said:

Lights are utter f*ckin bull sh*t... and that is a FACT. Every other game my mech is face down in the dirt, 30 seconds in, because some light mech zipped behind me and got me with a cheap one shot kill. Thanks, Cauldron.

It doesnt matter how little hp they have when they can run around the map twice before you can even blink. Sometimes a light will run past me and it wont even register... its simply WAY too fast.

Deploy in a Streak-boat and teach them a lesson.

Capt Deadpool, on 09 June 2021 - 11:00 AM, said:

0elric0,

As Wid said, lights are the least-played class because they typically require a higher skilled player to even begin to approach the effectiveness of the present meta of mediums/heavies/assaults. On top of that, the light class as recently been effectively nerfed due to the recent weapon buffs of many weapons that are highly effective against light mechs as well as upcoming mobility buffs for non-lights. Many of us are actually waiting for some much-needed buffs to the light class that the Cauldron is presently working on.
...

I have the same experience. I have got a Firestarter Hero, brand new Arctic Cheetah and Javelin, and a pair of special UrbanMechs waiting to be mastered ... , but I am waiting if the upcoming patches will do something good for them. Because, honestly, the current situation in MWO does not favor piloting of light 'Mechs.

[Gagis]

Half the time people compain lights are too powerful.

Half the time people complain lights are not powerful enough.

I like these numbers.

[Capt Deadpool]

Nine-Ball, on 09 June 2021 - 11:46 AM, said:

The problem with lights is they are too small.

I remember years ago someone on this forum arguing that lights needed MORE help because despite them being nothing more than scouts and harassers, wanted them to stand toe-to-toe with everything else.

It is no small wonder we now have light mechs that can alpha the back of everything in the game forcing everybody else to death-ball so they have 8-12 people shooting at a light instead of getting swarmed and unable to effectively fight back as just a singular lance.

But really, telling people to adjust to lights in a particular way... might as well tell noobs to NOT Nascar and to actually do something tactically brilliant when they get smashed 12-0.

Gagis, on 09 June 2021 - 11:47 AM, said:

Half the time people compain lights are too powerful.

Half the time people complain lights are not powerful enough.

I like these numbers.

As I mentioned, I suspect most of the players who complain about lights being OP are lower tier players where there is a lack of knowledge of how to counter them.

At the higher tier levels where the knowledge exists on how to counter them, it is readilllly apparent why lights are the least effective and least-played class.

Even in the mid tiers where players complain, if they were as OP as some people thought they would be the most played class and not the least. I believe the matches stick out in player's head where some tiny mech that they psychologically think should be weak and ineffective, actually isn't (either due to a higher-skilled pilot or due to a lack of knowledge in how to counter it) , because you don't see threads about assaults being OP be cause it psychologically seems to be 'expected' when an assault player smashes numerous mechs in a game.

Edited by Capt Deadpool, 09 June 2021 - 11:56 AM.

[Khobai]

I think stealth armor is a problem. Nobody enjoys spending 5 minutes hunting down stealth armor fleas. And I think thats one of the big things that irritates people about light mechs right now.

The the other problem with stealth armor is that the downside of stealth armor is supposed to be you cant dissipate heat. But when you have mechs using gauss that generates very little heat it effectively circumvents whats supposed to be the biggest downside of stealth armor. I get the feeling stealth armor wasnt something you were supposed to be able to have turned on all of the time.

So stealth armor definitely needs some rebalancing.


Also the fact streaks got nerfed into obsolescence doesnt help either since the primary purpose of streaks was to delete light mechs from existence. Streaks were one of the great equalizers of the game to keep light mechs in check so they couldnt facehug and anklebite the bigger mechs. Now that streaks are no longer capable of doing that it allows lights to run amok in the blindspots of the larger mechs where they cant be attacked.

Edited by Khobai, 09 June 2021 - 12:04 PM.

[Captain Caveman DE]

Capt Deadpool, on 09 June 2021 - 11:50 AM, said:

As I mentioned, I suspect most of the players who complain about lights being OP are lower tier players where there is a lack of knowledge of how to counter them if it is a tier 4 or 5 player in a match against a tier 3 in a light or a tier 1 or 2 in an alt.

At the higher tier levels where the knowledge exists on how to counter them, it is readilllly apparent why lights are the least effective and least-played class.

and it is true - in lower tiers.
not because of the lights, but because of stealth-armor and "people".

climbing through the tiers again, lights in general -and stealth fleas in particular- are the ONE thing the rest of the team can't handle. ever. you can call them out with "stealth-flea in f6, use your eyes, go for the legs" .. and even with the other 11 alive NOTHING happens.
hell, you can camp your 12 mechs in 1 small group, with the flea in between them, shooting .. and they don't see it.
I know what it sounds like to somebody used to his T1-matches, but it is a reality down here

Edited by Captain Caveman DE, 09 June 2021 - 11:56 AM.

[Nightbird]

Gagis, on 09 June 2021 - 11:47 AM, said:

Half the time people compain lights are too powerful.

Half the time people complain lights are not powerful enough.

I like these numbers.

Fake numbers...

[Capt Deadpool]

Captain Caveman DE, on 09 June 2021 - 11:55 AM, said:

and it is true - in lower tiers.
not because of the lights, but because of stealth-armor and "people".

climbing through the tiers again, lights in general -and stealth fleas in particular- are the ONE thing the rest of the team can't handle. ever. you can call them out with "stealth-flea in f6, use your eyes, go for the legs" .. and even with the other 11 alive NOTHING happens.
hell, you can camp your 12 mechs in 1 small group, with the flea in between them, shooting .. and they don't see it.
I know what it sounds like to somebody used to his T1-matches, but it is a reality down here

I do empathize But, such a light player would not be in the low tiers for very long if they are able to that easily decimate the enemy team. It is true though that players will always be making alts...

If it is a T1-T3 match and it is a T1 Flea pilot, the MM will hopefully have placed an equivalent number of T1 pliots on the opposite team, whether also in light, or in more likely some other more effective weight class to balance things out.

I'd also counter that there are a number of meta mechs that a T1 alt could be playing that would be equally or more difficult for lower tiers to handle.

Edited by Capt Deadpool, 09 June 2021 - 12:05 PM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Shoot SRMs at light mechs. I heard they are allergic to them.

[JediPanther]

This thread's title makes me laugh and miss the years before the re-scale when lights of all kinds and weight in-its-own-class were viable when played smartly. Go play lights op,particularly the 35 ton ones such as the IS jenners or the no ecm fleas,lcts, and ravens. You'll learn quickly within about four matches how underwhelming the vast majority of lights are as well as how hard they really are to use to get kills.

Before you do I highly recommend you read the light mech help threads and buy an lfe engine unless you want to die instantly in an is xl as it sounds like you've not played one hour in lights. Clan lights are ez mode compared to the IS lights.

[JediPanther]

ScrapIron Prime, on 09 June 2021 - 11:02 AM, said:

Conquest match on Frozen City classic yesterday, piloting Marauder 3R (2 PPC, 2 AC/5). I headed to the Theta cap alone, encountered two stealth locusts and a stealth flea. Danced with them for quite some time but killed all three by one-shotting side torsos. Game ended shortly thereafter. My total damage done... 85.

The wolf pack of them wasn't so much the threat to me, it was the match score penalty I received for only encountering and killing tiny mechs. Sigh.

I find your gunnery skills against an infestation impressive. Most pilots with that load out would have died in a 3 vs 1 against stealth-ed bugs. They must have been poor pilots.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Nine-Ball, on 09 June 2021 - 12:27 PM, said:

Honestly, if you can snipe and take out a light in a single alpha while they're in full sprint mode while juking left and right I must ask what sorta aim-bot you are using.

But for the sake of argument, what would be the most effective counter for a light? Running a splat build?

I did. Scroll up. Using an old GTX 1050 card on a 6 year old windows 8 machine. It just takes patience.

And the right weapons. The best way to quickly eliminate a light mech is with pinpoint damage. Lasers and missiles spread out and are inefficient. PPC's and large bore autocannons do tons of damage at once to a single body location. Mounting them on a relatively mobile mech is the best way to take out a circling light.

multi-PPC builds are the bane of light mechs. and they're extremely common, which is one reason light mechs are the least played weight class. While a gauss boat Fafnir may not be able to turn fast enough to get the flea out of his shorts, a Vapor Eagle or Snub+20 Warhammer certainly can!