619 replies to this topic

[Capt Deadpool]

Leone, on 09 June 2021 - 04:09 PM, said:

And I was giving him the perfect oppourtunity to tell us all how the Javelin is too tall, allowing it a better vantage than the Nova, a mech 20 tonnes heavier than it!

Now we shall never get to flood this thread with sarcastic banter~♪

~Leone

Doh! XD

In that case, I would like to express the undisputed fact that the Raven's torsos are not nearly long enough, given insanely advantageous narrow profile when it is facing another mech head-on. In order to compensate, I want that thing looking like the love child of Adrian Brody and a Tolkien goblin, such that the tip of the nose is already in the enemy spawn when the game begins.

[1453 R]

The Firestarter's fuel tanks are merely cosmetic! How can they hope to balance the game when fuel tanks do not explode? This is a fundamental truth of all video games - drums full of combustibles explode when you shoot them!

The Firestarter's shoulder fuel tanks, ergo, must be hard-recolored to bright red, and they must explode for 200 damage in a forty-meter radius when shot, after a five-second delay where sparks and smoke rise from the impact. This is the only way to make MWO great again - fuel tanks must explode.

[justcallme A S H]

A good amount of heresay and fictional nonsense from the usual suspect(s) I see.

Imagine a "light OP" thread and then pinning it all on a Streak adjustment... Of course let's ignore the last 7 years of 'Lights OP' threads entirely and blame on isolated thing.



Anyway lights are not remotely overpowered. Skill gap is.

[Leone]

Now now, 200 damage may be a bit much. Besides, does it hafta be damage? Can't they explode for heat? I mean, you're right, they must explde, but I think we've options. Giant heat spike nova so everyone nearby shuts down with a just a splashing of damage sounds just about right to me.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 09 June 2021 - 05:09 PM.

[MechNexus]

You don't need streaks to deal with light mechs (and lets be honest, if you're relying on streaks to fight lights you're up a certain creek sans a paddle if you encounter a stealth light) and you can take them on just like any mech if you treat them with the respect they actually command. Sweep their legs with lasers/MRMs/anything rapid fire or crack one of their side torsos open. If it's an IS mech they'll probably die instantly (most IS light players run XL) and if it's clan they'll be severely gimped by the loss of a torso.

[Wid1046]

Anc1ent, on 09 June 2021 - 02:38 PM, said:

Problem is not with lights being too powerful but assaults being too weak. Imo all the assaults should get better pitch angle to be able to deal with ankle biters and armor quirks, those that already do have armor quirks should have slightly better ones... ofc matchmaker would have to be optimized to equalize their numbers which it currently fails at miserably.

Khobai, on 09 June 2021 - 03:33 PM, said:

I dont think you can really even make assaults pitch down more. if you increased some of their pitch angles more theyd start clipping into their own models.

[redacted]

Later this month all heavies and assaults will have their pitch angles increased to 25°. https://www.mwocomp.com/patches.html

[Meep Meep]

Clan lights are okish due to being able to either boat a ton of small weapons on the 20 tonners and the 35 tonners can mount double heavy weapons with backup. Their drawbacks are the pitiful armor and tendency to not be all that fast. For IS the only lights that are viable are the armor quirked like the urby and wolfhound and stealth lights like the flea and locust. All the rest are usually done much better in a medium mech. None of them are even remotely op though they can hold their own if the team is coherent.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Wid1046, on 09 June 2021 - 06:54 PM, said:

Later this month all heavies and assaults will have their pitch angles increased to 25°. https://www.mwocomp.com/patches.html

Good. The idea of mankind’s ultimate war machine being overcome by a slope of a hill is silly. Oh, and shooting leg humpers I guess.

[Khobai]

justcallme A S H, on 09 June 2021 - 05:06 PM, said:

A good amount of heresay and fictional nonsense from the usual suspect(s) I see.

Imagine a "light OP" thread and then pinning it all on a Streak adjustment... Of course let's ignore the last 7 years of 'Lights OP' threads entirely and blame on isolated thing.



Anyway lights are not remotely overpowered. Skill gap is.

Then why did cauldron nerf streaks if skill gap is the problem?

Your words do not align with your actions.

Cauldron did it. They blatantly nerfed a weapon that allowed higher tier players to do better against Lower tier players in lights. now you yourself are admitting it’s a skill gap problem yet cauldrons nerfs helped make that skill gap even worse. Your nerfs widened the skill gap even more! That reeks of agenda.

Buff streaks back to where they were please. Thanks. Then the "skill gap" Cauldron made worse wont be as bad.

Of course buffing streaks is hardly a panacea towards fixing the skill gap problem. But its a step in the right direction. Instead of the direction Cauldron wants to go which is an obvious elitest agenda with a wider skill gap between the best and worst players.

Edited by Khobai, 09 June 2021 - 08:04 PM.

[Anjian]

1453 R, on 09 June 2021 - 04:59 PM, said:

The Firestarter's fuel tanks are merely cosmetic! How can they hope to balance the game when fuel tanks do not explode? This is a fundamental truth of all video games - drums full of combustibles explode when you shoot them!

The Firestarter's shoulder fuel tanks, ergo, must be hard-recolored to bright red, and they must explode for 200 damage in a forty-meter radius when shot, after a five-second delay where sparks and smoke rise from the impact. This is the only way to make MWO great again - fuel tanks must explode.

Why does it need large external fuel tanks? Aren't Mechs fusion powered? You will only need small amounts of matter, namely Deuterium and Tritium to convert to total energy?

[cougurt]

Khobai, on 09 June 2021 - 07:35 PM, said:

Then why did cauldron nerf streaks if skill gap is the problem not streaks

perhaps because streaks being an utterly skill-devoid counter to an entire weight class is dumb and frustrating for rookies and veterans alike?

also, consider slowing down a bit and gathering your thoughts before posting instead of making 400 edits.

[Khobai]

cougurt, on 09 June 2021 - 07:53 PM, said:

perhaps because streaks being an utterly skill-devoid counter to an entire weight class is dumb and frustrating for rookies and veterans alike?

also, consider slowing down a bit and gathering your thoughts before posting instead of making 400 edits.

you realize streaks only have a 270m range right? They did not counter an entire weight class. Not even close. They forced lights to assess risk before being able to charge in and anklebite/facehug enemy mechs. They had to check for streak loadouts before they could engage at point blank range. It created tactical counterplay while lessening the skill gap between higher and lower tier players.

and I would fully support lowering the range of clan streaks to 270m as well. but buffing streaks back to a point where they can actually delete light mechs effectively again.

Streaks having a place in the game is far better than streaks not having a place in the game at all. Cauldron would rather shove the weapon system in the closet and pretend it doesnt exist because its inconvenient to their agenda of creating as wide of a skill gap as possible between them and other players.

Edited by Khobai, 09 June 2021 - 08:16 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Khobai, on 09 June 2021 - 07:35 PM, said:

Then why did cauldron nerf streaks if skill gap is the problem?

Your words do not align with your actions.

Cauldron did it blatantly they nerfed a weapon that allowed higher tier players to do better against Lower tier players in lights. now you yourself are admitting it’s a skill gap problem yet cauldrons nerfs helped make that skill gap even worse. Your nerfs widened the skill gap even more! That reeks of agenda.

Buff streaks back to where they were please. Thanks. The skill gap wont be as bad then.

You are once again making up statements without any proof or evidence.

No one has ever said that - If you are going to make such statements - proivde the proof or your statement cannot be taken seriously.



The Cauldron changes to SSRM were simply to stop Lights and some Meds being completely 1-shot nuked or at the least completely maimed, by a single SSRM Alpha. Tier 5 does not play with Tier 1, so your argument there is fundamentally wrong from the outset. Thus the change had nothing to do with low skill players nuking high skill players.

Since the recent patch where SSRM values were changed many have given feedback and Cauldron members have tested it out. The Cauldron has reached consensus based that the SSRM nerf was too aggressive. Lights now can eat easily 3 alphas and survive, even Fleas. Thus SSRM are not as scary as they should be for a light.

Upcoming proposed values will move SSRM to a middle-ground between the two ends and we will again see how that plays out - as there is no option to PTS it. A very important point to remember.


If you want to be taken seriously and have a reasonable discussion with everyone. Please cease making unproven & unfounded claims. It's once again getting ridiculous.

[Khobai]

justcallme A S H, on 09 June 2021 - 08:14 PM, said:

You are once again making up statements without any proof or evidence.

I submit as evidence the patch notes where cauldron nerfed streaks. That is my evidence. The fact cauldron did it.

You worsened the skill gap that you are now claiming is the problem. By your own admission.

And again streaks have a very limited range. They only severely punish lights when lights enter that 270m range. Its one of the things that helped prevent lights from being able to run into the blindspots of other mechs where other mechs can barely even see them to be able to shoot them. And again id be 100% okay with reducing the range of clan streaks to 270m to match IS streaks.

Streaks did not completely counter lights they only countered lights that didnt properly assess the risk of engaging mechs with streaks inside that 270m range. Its no different than how heavies/assaults have to properly assess the risk of pushing against other mechs with ballistics. You make a stupid decision you die.

And you use the excuse that you dont want lights to get one shotted but you sure dont seem to have a problem when other weapons one shot lights from much greater distances. In fact youve been buffing those weapons so theyre better at one shotting lights at a distance.

The only thing Cauldron didnt like about streaks specifically is that even Tier5 players could use them effectively and it helped lessen the skill gap between Tier5 players and Tier1 players.

I believe players absolutely have a right to a weapon system that scares the **** out of lights at short range so lights cant ram themselves up peoples' asses with impunity. Because nobody enjoys fighting lights in an assault and not even being able to see them at all. Especially players in tier 4-tier 5 who get completely dominated by lights when theyre in assaults. Why you think allowing that is fun for the game is beyond me.

Of course you dont care about the higher tier players at all. You feed on the skill gap between worse and better players. Thats why Cauldron continually strives to make that skill gap even wider.

Again the weapon being in the game is better than the weapon being shelved. Shelving the weapon and pretending it doesnt exist is not a solution. That isnt even a compromise. You arnt even trying to find an acceptable compromise where streaks are still useful without being overpowered against lights. You just want streaks out of the game entirely. Well congratulations youve made them useless now. *claps*.

All im asking for is a compromise on streaks to make them useful enough against lights that lights dont feel comfortable engaging mechs with streaks. I dont expect streaks to one shot lights. Just not be damn useless against them or straight up worse than SRMs like they are now. It is a 100% reasonable request.

Edited by Khobai, 09 June 2021 - 09:07 PM.

[martian]

Anjian, on 09 June 2021 - 07:48 PM, said:

Why does it need large external fuel tanks? Aren't Mechs fusion powered? You will only need small amounts of matter, namely Deuterium and Tritium to convert to total energy?

There are two basic types of Flamers in BattleTech:
1. The majority of Flamers taps plasma directly from the fusion reactor.
2. The second group of Flamers is much rarer. It uses the traditional liquid fuels or gels stored in tanks of some kind.

[cougurt]

Khobai, on 09 June 2021 - 08:07 PM, said:

you realize streaks only have a 270m range right? They did not counter an entire weight class. They forced that weight class to assess risk before being able to charge in and anklebite/facehug enemy mechs.

and I would fully support lowering the range of clan streaks to 270m as well. but buffing streaks back to a point where they can actually delete light mechs effectively again.

lights still have to do that even in the complete absence of streaks, the only difference being that it requires at least a modicum of effort from the other party. i don't think the streak changes were perfect mind you, but i fully agree with the intent behind them.

[justcallme A S H]

Khobai, on 09 June 2021 - 08:23 PM, said:

I submit as evidence the patch notes where cauldron nerfed streaks. That is my evidence. The fact cauldron did it.

The patch notes made no such reference.

SOURCE APR Patch Notes

Quote

The current state of Clan streak SRMs can be described as the definition of a feast or famine mechanic. The extremely long cooldown phase of the weapon could mean that a miss is equivalent to being completely disabled for a long time while the fight around you is going on. On the other hand, this has resulted in Clan ‘Mechs packing in as many Streaks as possible and opting for a hit and run fighting style, counting on their sheer number of launchers to destroy or cripple their target in one shot, and using cover or speed to safely wait for the next salvo. The goal of changes made to Streak SRMs in this patch has been to make the weapon more consistent in terms of damage output which has been achieved by reducing the upfront raw damage and adjusted heat values while allowing the weapon to fire faster. This change is expected to turn Clan Streak SRMs into a viable close range option against all types of targets. Alongside this change IS Streaks have also been tuned to have longer cooldown to balance their damage output potential between IS normal SRMs and Clan Streaks.

Can you please clarify where your "evidence" is in the above patch note text?


No reference about Low Skill players nuking High Skill players with Streaks as you've repeatadly claimed. You even said the patch notes have evidence - but they don't.


Please cease making completely false claims if you want to be taken seriously.

[justcallme A S H]

Khobai, on 09 June 2021 - 08:23 PM, said:

That isnt even a compromise. You arnt even trying to find an acceptable compromise where streaks are still useful without being overpowered against lights. You just want streaks out of the game entirely. Well congratulations youve made them useless now. *claps*.

False. There is compromise coming, I already told you this. It would appear you once again did you understand.

justcallme A S H, on 09 June 2021 - 08:14 PM, said:

Since the recent patch where SSRM values were changed many have given feedback and Cauldron members have tested it out. The Cauldron has reached consensus based that the SSRM nerf was too aggressive. Lights now can eat easily 3 alphas and survive, even Fleas. Thus SSRM are not as scary as they should be for a light.

Upcoming proposed values will move SSRM to a middle-ground between the two ends and we will again see how that plays out - as there is no option to PTS it. A very important point to remember.

Streaks are going to get a buff over where they currently are which is the very compromise you claim the Cauldron is not open to looking at. We've already agreed on it.


Again if you want to be taken seriously with anything you continue to say - you need to cease this sensationalist and patently false commentary you continue with yet again.

If you post any further with fake claims and false beliefs - I'm not going to waste more of my time replying to it. I'm happy to have a discussion, just not something that is completely and utterly irrational.

[Capt Deadpool]

Nine-Ball, on 09 June 2021 - 07:57 PM, said:

The issues of tiny mechs zooming past and rendering 95% of ammo thrown at it useless, doesn't involve skill. It is all about broken mechanics abused by people that result in a broken-down mess of a Nascaring meta in PUGs.

Wowzerz, a mech that does not require skill to absolutely dominate? Surely such mechs as fleas and locusts must be the number 1 choice for cadets and Tier 5's everywhere then! Struggle no more, new players, we have just the mech for you! I am relieved we have gotten to the bottom of this

[Khobai]

cougurt, on 09 June 2021 - 08:27 PM, said:

lights still have to do that even in the complete absence of streaks, the only difference being that it requires at least a modicum of effort from the other party. i don't think the streak changes were perfect mind you, but i fully agree with the intent behind them.

you fully agree with the intent of making them utterly and completely useless? because thats what they are.

justcallme A S H, on 09 June 2021 - 08:46 PM, said:

Streaks are going to get a buff over where they currently are which is the very compromise you claim the Cauldron is not open to looking at. We've already agreed on it.

Cauldron also said they wouldnt nerf any weapons. Then nerfed weapons. I will continue to disbelieve you until I see otherwise.