619 replies to this topic

[D A T A]

Nightbird, on 17 June 2021 - 07:45 AM, said:

Yes yes, and we all know that lights are strong and easy, assaults are weak and hard. *Laughs*

As i said many times, there are many sub categories.
Brawling is strong and easy across the board, as long as you go fast, that's how the game goes right now.

[Nightbird]

Maybe, dakka, laser vomit, and ppc gauss are all effective and more consistent performers than brawl IMHO. I'm of course talking about solo dropping, not groups in QP that can make any tactic broken.

[Dogstar]

Der Geisterbaer, on 17 June 2021 - 05:59 AM, said:

Such claims - to me at least - actually look just as intellectually dishonest as the claims a certain other forum user tends to make.

Yep, you've got it in one

[D A T A]

Nightbird, on 17 June 2021 - 07:51 AM, said:

Maybe, dakka, laser vomit, and ppc gauss are all effective and more consistent performers than brawl IMHO. I'm of course talking about solo dropping, not groups in QP that can make any tactic broken.

If trading with ppc gauss and laser is so strong, why every game noone trades, and everyone rotates and nascars?
Have you tried playing QP with viragos 4erll? Even in a 4 men premade? All that happens to you is that 2-3 flea or piranhas just jump your power position and **** you.....thats why noone does that

[w0qj]

+1
Lights are overpowered.

Let's call a spade a spade, PGI had introduced overpowered light mech chasis in the name of sales.
Piranha mech with the standard 15 weapon hardpoints on a 20ton mech?
Just look at PIR-2, with 15x energy hardpoints!
We are still left grappling with this ignominious legacy of hardpoint inflation in the name of sales.
Even Cauldron/Gulag had to re-introduce ghost heat as maximum 12x Clan Micro-Pulse-Lasers precisely because of the Piranha mech chasis, back in May 2021 Weapons Pass #2. I personally feel the 20ton Piranha chasis is too powerful.

MWO/PGI also tried to make Light mech chasis thrive by limiting Heavy and especially Assaults torso pitch, and cancelling the knockover damage penalty when Light mechs run into Assaults. Let's face it: all in the name of more Light mech sales.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
On a personal note, MWO/PGI lost some sales from me, precisely because of this Light mech hardpoint inflation in the name of sales.

I personally stayed away from MWO after its founder package days (Gold Khan mech fiasco), and seriously thought about coming back to play MWO in 2017, to the point of actively reading/lurking MWO website/forums.
But once the Piranha chasis pre-order was introduced end-2017, with this Light mech hardpoint inflation in the name of sales mechanic, I saw this hardpoint inflation problem, seriously disagreed with it, and skipped left MWO.

To this day (May 22nd 2021 Weapons Pass #2 patch to be exact), even Cauldron/Gulag is still grappling with this severe Piranha mech 15-hardpoint inflation issue/feature.
(How about putting in a diminishing energy damage returns for boating 10+ weapons of the same/similar class?)

D A T A, on 17 June 2021 - 07:05 AM, said:

The vast majority of players is experiencing the exact same thing, litterally everyone i know complains that we overbuffed lights.
The only ones that are ok with this bul***** nascar brawl meta are, ofc, only those who like that particular playstyle....but wait....wasn't our role to enforce forgotten playstyles??? If it is so, why after 2 months the game is still only a nascar brawl? How is buffing accells decells on lighs meds by 20-30, and turn rates too, while giving 2-3 accell decell buff to assaults and no turn rate buff going to make this nascar brawl meta less meta? If anything the meta will become more meta. As it happened with the small laser smallpulse class overbuff we did.

Ash, if going fast and nascaring while ****** **** at the back was not OP as ****, either because too strong or too easy, why is everyone doing just THAT since years??? Can you answer to this question? Because until now noone could.
If nascar fast brawl is not THE meta, why everyone does that? Is everyone stupid? Or just some people in the gulag (not all) a little bit too attached to their favourite nascar brawl playstile?

[Nightbird]

D A T A, on 17 June 2021 - 07:56 AM, said:

If trading with ppc gauss and laser is so strong, why every game noone trades, and everyone rotates and nascars?
Have you tried playing QP with viragos 4erll? Even in a 4 men premade? All that happens to you is that 2-3 flea or piranhas just jump your power position and **** you.....thats why noone does that

You should know that QP favors mid range because of random map and mode. A Virago can do very well on Alpine, Polar, Frozen City (new) but people vote against those. If QP had a drop deck where you can select a mech after knowing the map, it'd be like FP where you see a much greater variety of mechs and builds used in effective ways.

[Bud Crue]

Y E O N N E, on 17 June 2021 - 07:22 AM, said:

Nascar happens because holding a power position takes coordination in both the MechLab and among players in the match that doesn't exist among random players with random builds on random maps.

Also, Nascar happens, and more genarally, brawling as a play style is emphasized, because imo a lot of older mech dads and their ilk (whom I believe still make up a big portion, if not the majority, of the game's population), can't aim to save our lives (or see what we are aiming at half the time) and need to get close and aim center of mass to have a reasonable chance to be successful with any sort of consistency.

Fr what it's worth, in my games of late, Nascar has become a bit less common, and brawling in general (en mass) has become much less common (and more challenging). While, matches where the majority of both teams are trading at distance for a significant portion of the match has become more common. But I have no clue if that is a consequence of the seeming heightened frequency of new Canyon in the map selection queue, or the recent weapons changes.

In any case, I certainly am not seeing any increase in marauding light wolf packs since the Cauldron patches took effect, any more than in the past. When I notice the weight class percentages, lights are rarely above 15%. Honestly, even for those variants that are top performers, OP, or what have you, I don't think the majority of players appreciate what they are capable of, but more importantly I don't think the vast majority of players have the skill to play them effectively. On the other hand, that lack of skill goes both ways. In my matches, the "last guy in a Flea" (which is very common) is in minimal danger of being taken out by a dual HG to the CT, but rather will spend two minutes dying the death of a thousand cuts to the six remaining mechs on the other team that can only barely scratch him for a moment with hit scan weapons.

Edited by Bud Crue, 17 June 2021 - 08:03 AM.

[1453 R]

@w0qj:

You can't actually blame Piranha for the Piranha. The 'Mech existed in tabletop lore long before MWO even existed, and people were agitating badly for Piranha to release the Piranha because of Fish Memes and the name coincidence for quite a bit. To what very, very little credit I'm willing to extend them, Piranha actually resisted releasing the Piranha for quite some time specifically because the base 'Mech in the lore is designed to do exactly what it does - boat an obnoxious number of micro-scale weapons and provide firepower all out of proportion to its size.

But a company is only willing to ignore people yelling "SHUT UP AND SELL ME THIS THING!" for so long before caving, and lo and behold - 15+ hardpoints on a light 'Mech causes issues. In this one specific case it's not really the company's fault - the community got exactly what it asked for, and it was every bit as obnoxious as anyone with two neurons to rub together knew it would be.

[ScrapIron Prime]

I feel at this point we need a Spongebob "20 pages later" meme.

...

Yes, Nascar happens. If you don't want to lose your mechs with the heaviest firepower, don't leave them behind. If you don't care and you just have to move NOWWWWW... then leave them behind. Teamwork stops most light mech issues we're talking about here. Failing that... play a faster mech so the fleas don't eat your shorts.

[D A T A]

w0qj, on 17 June 2021 - 07:59 AM, said:

+1
Lights are overpowered.

Let's call a spade a spade, PGI had introduced overpowered light mech chasis in the name of sales.
Piranha mech with the standard 15 weapon hardpoints on a 20ton mech?
Just look at PIR-2, with 15x energy hardpoints!
We are still left grappling with this ignominious legacy of hardpoint inflation in the name of sales.
Even Cauldron/Gulag had to re-introduce ghost heat as maximum 12x Clan Micro-Pulse-Lasers precisely because of the Piranha mech chasis, back in May 2021 Weapons Pass #2. I personally feel the 20ton Piranha chasis is too powerful.

MWO/PGI also tried to make Light mech chasis thrive by limiting Heavy and especially Assaults torso pitch, and cancelling the knockover damage penalty when Light mechs run into Assaults. Let's face it: all in the name of more Light mech sales.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
On a personal note, MWO/PGI lost some sales from me, precisely because of this Light mech hardpoint inflation in the name of sales.

I personally stayed away from MWO after its founder package days (Gold Khan mech fiasco), and seriously thought about coming back to play MWO in 2017, to the point of actively reading/lurking MWO website/forums.
But once the Piranha chasis pre-order was introduced end-2017, with this Light mech hardpoint inflation in the name of sales mechanic, I saw this hardpoint inflation problem, seriously disagreed with it, and skipped left MWO.

To this day (May 22nd 2021 Weapons Pass #2 patch to be exact), even Cauldron/Gulag is still grappling with this severe Piranha mech 15-hardpoint inflation issue/feature.
(How about putting in a diminishing energy damage returns for boating 10+ weapons of the same/similar class?)

Wait the 22 june bro, when assaults will get a magic accell rate boost by 2 points (LOL) and piranhas (cipher) will run around at locust level agility (+30ish), and ggclose game balance.
Post mobility mwo is going to turn into a hell of fast brawlers even more than now

Edited by D A T A, 17 June 2021 - 08:13 AM.

[GARION26]

I love how currently on the front page of this sub forum there is a 22 page post about how 'lights are overpowered' and another thread about how not having the same number of assaults as the other team is proof the matchmaker doesn't work (effectively arguing 'assaults are overpowered') and I'm pretty sure if I look I can find another one complaining that NASCAR makes slow moving assaults ineffective.

[ScrapIron Prime]

D A T A, on 17 June 2021 - 08:12 AM, said:

Post mobility mwo is going to turn into a hell of fast brawlers even more than now

I will reserve judgement until it settles out. But I do worry about a new game full of hyper-optimized everything. Will the meta change, or will the non-meta that I love just get pushed out? Stay tuned, true believers.

[Der Geisterbaer]

1453 R said:

In this one specific case it's not really the company's fault - the community got exactly what it asked for, and it was every bit as obnoxious as anyone with two neurons to rub together knew it would be.

And despite its "obnoxiousness" neither the original bogeyman PIR-1 nor more the current bogeymen PIR-2 and PIR-3 (due to already dialed back buffs to certain lasers) seem to really build a significant majority of played Lights among the still heavily underrepresented weight class of Lights ... but hey, at least we're back to seeing double digit percentages in usage more often.

[MechNexus]

Aight evidently i've gotta say it again

Lights aren't OP, you're just not treating them with the respect they actually command and blaming everything but yourself when you get punished for it.

Get your backs to a wall (or keep them in your LoS, counter-rotating to get them back in view when they move out of it) and sweep their legs to rob them of their mobility They rely on their mobility to stay alive and get to your rear, as most don't have the tonnage to pack guns that can punch through frontal armour. Taking the legs robs them of that. On larger IS lights, take a side torso if you want an instant kill as odds on they're running XL.

EDIT: Let me put it another way: If you wouldn't give a DHG fafnir free space to drill your CT by overexposing and not twisting to protect your components, then why in the bloody hell are you giving backstab lights free access to your rear?

Edited by MechNexus, 17 June 2021 - 08:55 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

D A T A, on 17 June 2021 - 07:37 AM, said:

So why back in 2014 and 2015, when trading weapons were actually a thing, and light/mediums didn't have a skill tree 4 times stronger than the one of the assaults, there was no nascar at all and people jump sniped and traded across the map? Even randoms?
Because randoms only do what is strong and easy to do, not what is weak and hard to do....and currently nascar brawl is both too strong, and too easy....

2014: Everything that wasn't poptarting in 2014 was weak as heck, regardless of weight class. When there weren't a lot of poptarters in a match, it turned into nascar.

2015: Started off similar to 2014 but then everybody realized IS laser vomit quirks were OP as heck and it turned into a mid-range laser-drilling big-engine-stomp meta in QP for most of the year. I don't know why you think there wasn't tons of nascar in 2015, because there definitely was.

You can already dominate a match dropping 3-4 Div A players with extreme range builds, farming skittles who have unsynchronized builds and it's child's play for you because you know most of them can't shoot back and you know most of them won't be on comms attempting to evade or isolate you. It's broken, just as broken as dropping a wolf pack of Lights with the same group. Your litmus test is invalid.

D A T A, on 17 June 2021 - 08:12 AM, said:

Wait the 22 june bro, when assaults will get a magic accell rate boost by 2 points (LOL) and piranhas (cipher) will run around at locust level agility (+30ish), and ggclose game balance.
Post mobility mwo is going to turn into a hell of fast brawlers even more than now

It's nowhere close to Locust. The slowest Locust will be 98 (+14 over previous), the quickest Piranha will be 78 (+19 over previous).

I actually do agree that Assault agility is undercooked, especially on bad ones like the Marauder 2.

[McGoat]

D A T A, on 17 June 2021 - 08:12 AM, said:

Wait the 22 june bro, when assaults will get a magic accell rate boost by 2 points (LOL) and piranhas (cipher) will run around at locust level agility (+30ish), and ggclose game balance.
Post mobility mwo is going to turn into a hell of fast brawlers even more than now

The answer is quite simple; buff LRMs for light deletion.

[ScrapIron Prime]

McGoat, on 17 June 2021 - 08:52 AM, said:

The answer is quite simple; buff LRMs for light deletion.

A small change to cooldown would suffice, right? 1000% Quickdraw

[CFC Conky]

0Elric0, on 09 June 2021 - 10:37 AM, said:

just woundering if others feel that light mechs are too powerful. in my opinion with a decent pilot a light is the most powerful mech in the game. I have witnessed to many times a light run around the feet of another mech, take him out move on to the next take him out etc, with me in my med mech trying to protect him often with others trying to hit the little guy, and alot of the time he turns to me and takes me out. if this were real world nobody in there right mind would ever drive anything but a light mech. in my opinion a light mech should be a scout (getting targets for LRMs, leaders calling out targets. electronic counter measures etc)

I wonder how often players who think light mechs are op are actually getting ganked by light mechs. My personal experience is that it happens to me in less than 1% of my matches. I drive light mechs every now and then and have made quick kills on larger mechs, but not very often.

In a way, you answer the question in your post when you say a 'decent' pilot in a light is the most dangerous mech in the game. I would argue that it takes more than being a 'decent' pilot to be truly dangerous, but then again a good pilot in any mech is dangerous.

We also have to take into account the vagaries of the MM which can put an inexperienced and/or lower-skill player up against top-shelf pilots. When that happens it usually doesn't end well, no matter which mech the opfor killed you with.

Let's see what happens after this month's patch.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[ScrapIron Prime]

CFC Conky, on 17 June 2021 - 10:29 AM, said:

In a way, you answer the question in your post when you say a 'decent' pilot in a light is the most dangerous mech in the game. I would argue that it takes more than being a 'decent' pilot to be truly dangerous, but then again a good pilot in any mech is dangerous.

Agreed. I'm a decent pilot. When I run a light and don't take arty strikes, at the end of the match I often find myself saying "wow, that was a LOT of work for 300 damage."

Get into position, back strike someone into oblivion, play the squirrel against the enemy backfield, and if I'm lucky... repeat. I will say its a lot easier when the big slow guys get left behind, and I think that's mostly what we're talking about here.

[CFC Conky]

ScrapIron Prime, on 17 June 2021 - 10:53 AM, said:

...

I will say its a lot easier when the big slow guys get left behind, and I think that's mostly what we're talking about here.

Agreed.