261 replies to this topic

[FinnMcKool]

BLOODREDSIN, on 28 June 2021 - 04:28 PM, said:

Just for the record, ( and because i don't actually know myself ) would someone mind naming each and every "cauldron" member, their role in MWO, their position within "cauldron" the group, and who "cauldron" is working with from PGI to apply these changes?

they are all members of the illuminate anyone who knows who they are , are Epsteined I heard that MacAfee was going to disclose just one member

Edited by FinnMcKool, 28 June 2021 - 05:38 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

BLOODREDSIN, on 28 June 2021 - 04:28 PM, said:

Just for the record, ( and because i don't actually know myself ) would someone mind naming each and every "cauldron" member, their role in MWO, their position within "cauldron" the group, and who "cauldron" is working with from PGI to apply these changes?

Some prefer to remain in the background so I'll just list the people commonly at the front/have said as much:
Krasnopesky / bear_cl4w / Sean Lang / Navid A1 / Bows3r / Y E O N N E / Jay Z / dario03 / D A T A / nuttyrat / (myself)

(spelling/spacing might not be exact and I may have forgotten a couple). There are ~25 people in total.

Not sure what you mean by role in MWO other than playing the game, because that is what we all do. Some guys prefer various weight classes, some don't. Some play comp, some don't. Some do QP mainly, some do FP mainly etc etc. Quite varied.

As far as position - The Cauldron is a collective. Nothing makes it into a proposal without a majority concensus. Some people make the spreadsheets as they are wizards, some test the values in custom files to see how they feel (and make videos to show everyone) - however as I said nothing gets put forward as I said without concensus/strong majority agreement.

Cauldron then give the proposals to PGI.

PGI then do as they want with them.

Not everything we have proposed has/does happen. What makes it into patch notes for the applicable month obviously does

After that Cauldron members then monitor the feedback across many mediums (forums, reddits, facebook, discords, streamers etc etc) and continue all the discussions from there as things evolve/settle as each change obviously shakes things up markedly right now.

[Leone]

BLOODREDSIN, on 28 June 2021 - 04:28 PM, said:

Just for the record, ( and because i don't actually know myself ) would someone mind naming each and every "cauldron" member, their role in MWO, their position within "cauldron" the group, and who "cauldron" is working with from PGI to apply these changes?

Uh, no. Why would you need that info? How would it help in any way?

Look, it's fairly simple. A buncha folk got together and asked PGI if'n they could chime in on balance, PGI said sure, Changes happen and everyone-Well, most everyone, has more fun. If you wanna address something, just post in forum. Something like this thread: https://mwomercs.com...mpjet-overhaul/

Then talks will happen, folk'll discuss and if'n it's decided changes'll improve the game and are viable, we may get to see them! No where in this process does knowing each and every member make anything easier.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 28 June 2021 - 05:59 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Leone, on 28 June 2021 - 05:58 PM, said:

Uh, no. Why would you need that info? How would it help in any way?

I'll puy my tinfoil hat on for a change given others never take theirs off

I would not be surprised given the "Cauldron" type of wording that it is one of the negative nancies on an Alt, trying to be nice to get the same information that's already been posted a number of times.

One of the Cauldron members then replies (as I've done) and this person either on their main acc or Alt then proceeds to pick at a tiny edge of anything that is posted up in a GOTCHA type way. To which will make the majority reading eyeroll


Or maybe it is genuinely someone that actually wants to know a bit more information and hasn't seen that posted despite my having done so a few times or via way of other Cauldron members have made themsevles clearly known

I guess we shall wait and see

[Tarl Cabot]

ScrapIron Prime, on 28 June 2021 - 01:27 PM, said:

Okay, here's a question... how does one delete their account? I see no option on the website to do that. Or is that just an exaggerated figure of speech?

Click on Profile . on that page, right below add MC is the following Withdraw Consent, once clicked another page is generated with the following information, and a place to enter your email address and password.

Quote

READ THIS (!)
Enter your email and password to confirm termination of your account. You will have 30 days to reverse this decision.

If you change your mind before 30 days has elapsed, simply login and accept the Terms of Service. Account termination cannot be reversed once the aforementioned 30 days have passed.

Game progress and items including purchased items will be lost after your account has been terminated.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 28 June 2021 - 06:12 PM.

[General Solo]

pattonesque, on 28 June 2021 - 07:42 AM, said:

This is basically word salad ...... word salad snipped

So in your opinion, my quote:

"While your intent may be admirable, the results speak for them selves, what you say is not meta after all.

A better solution would be to put as you call them, the extreme loser's in matches with other extreme loser's and extreme winner's in matches with other extreme winners's


Instead of like now allowing extreme winner's in matches to farm extreme loser's and basically driving them away , reducing the player base.

Now before someone says but we don't have enough players , I will remind you that we don't have enough players because extreme winner's were allowed to farm extreme loser's in matches in the first place, which resulted in the small population.

First it was Faction play extreme winner's were allowed to farm extreme loser's in matches - That Queue Died
Next it was Group play extreme winner's were allowed to farm extreme loser's in matches - That Queue Died

And so on and so forth , Quick plays (Soup Not Solo Que) is next"

Is word salad.
How is it word salad when it happens.
When its true.

And your answer

"Better players will usually beat worse players.

Worse players dramatically increase the chances of their losing to better players by seeing said better players on the other team and IMMEDIATELY GIVING UP."

Well if skillgap management was better and people had a reasonable chance of winning very single match, then people wouldn't give up.


Its not that hard to understand.

If local grade sports teams play other local grade sports teams they have a reasonable chance of winning.

But if If local grade sports teams play1st division their is no reasonable chance of winning and people give up.
Ez Pz


Not very constructive.

Edit: Seems that most obstructionist opinions in this thread have a K/D of 2 or more, obviously they are not affected but this not fun thing, and don't have much clue to the problem.

Edited by General Solo, 28 June 2021 - 08:03 PM.

[General Solo]

FrontlineAssembly, on 28 June 2021 - 10:18 AM, said:

So your saying that improving your skills isn't fun? You don't gain any satisfaction for improvement?

Where did I say that?

Don't gas light me!

I said I will not help kill the game by adding to the skillgap problem.

[Leone]

justcallme A S H, on 28 June 2021 - 06:04 PM, said:

Or maybe it is genuinely someone that actually wants to know a bit more information and hasn't seen that posted despite my having done so a few times or via way of other Cauldron members have made themsevles clearly known

No, no. They explicitly asked for 'each and every' Cauldron member. That's simply information no one needs to have aside from those in Cauldron.

~Leone.

[Khobai]

___, on 28 June 2021 - 02:20 PM, said:

Why are you biased against brawling mechs?

because brawling isnt very good right now. but thats being discussed in other threads.

[Khobai]

General Solo, on 28 June 2021 - 07:56 PM, said:

So in your opinion, my quote:

"While your intent may be admirable, the results speak for them selves, what you say is not meta after all.

A better solution would be to put as you call them, the extreme loser's in matches with other extreme loser's and extreme winner's in matches with other extreme winners's


Instead of like now allowing extreme winner's in matches to farm extreme loser's and basically driving them away , reducing the player base.

Now before someone says but we don't have enough players , I will remind you that we don't have enough players because extreme winner's were allowed to farm extreme loser's in matches in the first place, which resulted in the small population.

First it was Faction play extreme winner's were allowed to farm extreme loser's in matches - That Queue Died
Next it was Group play extreme winner's were allowed to farm extreme loser's in matches - That Queue Died

And so on and so forth , Quick plays (Soup Not Solo Que) is next"

Is word salad.
How is it word salad when it happens.
When its true.

And your answer

"Better players will usually beat worse players.

Worse players dramatically increase the chances of their losing to better players by seeing said better players on the other team and IMMEDIATELY GIVING UP."

Well if skillgap management was better and people had a reasonable chance of winning very single match, then people wouldn't give up.


Its not that hard to understand.

If local grade sports teams play other local grade sports teams they have a reasonable chance of winning.

But if If local grade sports teams play1st division their is no reasonable chance of winning and people give up.
Ez Pz


Not very constructive.

Edit: Seems that most obstructionist opinions in this thread have a K/D of 2 or more, obviously they are not affected but this not fun thing, and don't have much clue to the problem.

agreed it not constructive.

many people have expressed the opinion that the game isnt fun anymore.

Cauldron should be working with the community and listening to why players are saying the game isnt fun anymore and trying to compromise with the players instead of continually denying theres a problem or in many cases flat out attacking people for expressing differing opinions.

which certainly doesnt help with the opinion that Cauldron is ignoring the community and trying to push its own agenda

The common complaints I see are the meta has shifted too much towards poking/sniping, top tier meta mechs keep getting buffed, brawling is significantly weaker as a playstyle, certain lights are evasion tanking more damage than assaults can tank, other mechs die way too fast now, the game no longer feels like battletech and has been turned into a twitch robot shooter, and that skill gap has been increased to such an extent that its made team balance even worse. And teams not being balanced is one of the biggest reasons the game isnt fun right now.

And I do have to agree this game feels more like hawken at the moment than battletech lol.

Edited by Khobai, 29 June 2021 - 03:38 AM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Khobai, on 29 June 2021 - 02:53 AM, said:

Cauldron should be working with the community and listening to why players are saying the game isnt fun anymore and trying to compromise with the players instead of continually denying theres a problem

Guess what, this is exactly what is happening. There's a couple of channels where actual discussion happens. Just because we have a few people on the forum voicing their discontempt (yeah, that's what happens usually, contemt people don't post on forums, because they are mostly busy enjoying the game), doesn't mean there's a whole lot of them. Should these voices be neglected? Hell no, but since you are not part of the feedback gathering organ, you can not see the whole picture. If (making up numbers here) a thousand people are happy with how things are the fifteen unhappy are gonna have to swallow it.

Edited by Aidan Crenshaw, 29 June 2021 - 03:48 AM.

[Khobai]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 29 June 2021 - 03:45 AM, said:

Guess what, this is exactly what is happening. There's a couple of channels where actual discussion happens. Just because we have a few people on the forum voicing their discontempt (yeah, that's what happens usually, contemt people don't post on forums, because they are mostly busy enjoying the game), doesn't mean there's a whole lot of them. Should these voices be neglected? Hell no, but since you are not part of the feedback gathering organ, you can not see the whole picture. If (making up numbers here) a thousand people are happy with how things are the fifteen unhappy are gonna have to swallow it.

I dont see any of the above complaints being addressed by Cauldron though.

[Antares102]

Khobai, on 29 June 2021 - 04:15 AM, said:

I dont see any of the my above complaints being addressed by Cauldron though.

FTFY

Khobai, I really dont understand why you put up soooo much energy into going up against Cauldron all the time.
You will not get the result that you strive for i.e. they all fall in line and do exactly what you want.
Cauldron works with the community to make the game more fun and numbers have shown that it works.
Maybe your misconception is that you are not THE community and all your diffuse claims of "many players agree with me" does not help to improve your case.

Just a question: Are you also as active in the MWO comp discord channel with the name "discussion-to-improve-mwo"?
If I scroll up in that channel I dont see any contributions from you.
Why is that? Why are you fighting it out only in here? Or are you on Reddit?
If your intentions are serious then go there and have a direct chat with them and not fill this forum with endless eloquent versions of "yes it is, no it isnt, yes it is, no it isnt" back and forth discussions with Cauldron members.

And in general to everybody that says "game not fun" and goes against Cauldron.
Have YOU visited the discord channel? Have you tried to directly discuss (maybe even verbally) with them?
If not then your critique of Cauldrons' work falls flat in my eyes.

[justcallme A S H]

Khobai, on 29 June 2021 - 02:44 AM, said:

because brawling isnt very good right now. but thats being discussed in other threads.

Correction: You're not good at it right now.

That doesn't mean it's bad or not good.

[Khobai]

Antares102, on 29 June 2021 - 04:45 AM, said:

Maybe your misconception is that you are not THE community and all your diffuse claims of "many players agree with me" does not help to improve your case.

No thats YOUR misconception.

Because there are other players who agree with me in this same exact forum thread.

justcallme A S H, on 29 June 2021 - 04:47 AM, said:

Correction: You're not good at it right now.

That doesn't mean it's bad or not good.

See this is exactly what I mean about Cauldron not working with players.

Ash continues to prove what Cauldron is all about.

They are 100% uncompromising on everything.

Instead of trying to address why the game is unfun for certain players they constantly attack those players claiming they need to "get good". Meanwhile Cauldron continues to implement changes that worsen the skill gap between bad and good players. They are the ones making the skill gap problem worse.

Nerfing streaks (and ATMs) into oblivion for example. Cauldron blames the problem of lights being too hard to kill on skill gap and players not being able to aim. But theyre the ones that increased the skill gap by nerfing and effectively removing from the game the weapons that killed lights and didnt require aiming. They continually worsen the skill gap while constantly blaming other players for not being good enough. All because they want the increased skill gap so they can prey on weaker players.

So why would I ever want to go on a discord full of like minded people like Ash? Why would you even suggest that? lmao.

The only time cauldron is willing to work with the community is when the community agrees with them. Whenever someone presents a differing opinion they get attacked for it. And Ash proves this over in over in every single thread he posts in.

Edited by Khobai, 29 June 2021 - 05:23 AM.

[GARION26]

Antares102, on 29 June 2021 - 04:45 AM, said:

FTFY

Khobai, I really dont understand why you put up soooo much energy into going up against Cauldron all the time.
You will not get the result that you strive for i.e. they all fall in line and do exactly what you want.
Cauldron works with the community to make the game more fun and numbers have shown that it works.
Maybe your misconception is that you are not THE community and all your diffuse claims of "many players agree with me" does not help to improve your case.

Just a question: Are you also as active in the MWO comp discord channel with the name "discussion-to-improve-mwo"?
If I scroll up in that channel I dont see any contributions from you.
Why is that? Why are you fighting it out only in here? Or are you on Reddit?
If your intentions are serious then go there and have a direct chat with them and not fill this forum with endless eloquent versions of "yes it is, no it isnt, yes it is, no it isnt" back and forth discussions with Cauldron members.

And in general to everybody that says "game not fun" and goes against Cauldron.
Have YOU visited the discord channel? Have you tried to directly discuss (maybe even verbally) with them?
If not then your critique of Cauldrons' work falls flat in my eyes.

While I agree with others that Khobai doesn't appear to be posting in good faith or with as much factual data as one would like. It is fair to say he is sort of engaging here on the forums which is one way to talk to some Cauldron members. I don't think he's engaging in a useful way but I don't think he should have to be on discord to provide some feedback. That being said that's where most of the discussion is happening and if you want to be part of it as opposed to being a keyboard warrior join discord and talk there.

For those convinced changes are ruining the game - just look at the overall player stats for the last 14 months, a good chunk of that is Cauldron some of it predates it (IMO the major factor is an influx of players after mixing of group and solo que despite forum angst about the change.) And look at the trend of player count for the years prior. What was MWO in the past wasn't working (possibly read as "wasn't fun") judging by numbers of people choosing to play the game MWO has made changes to make the game 'more fun' then it was.

https://leaderboard.isengrim.org/stats

Edited by GARION26, 29 June 2021 - 06:55 AM.

[pbiggz]

Khobai, on 29 June 2021 - 04:57 AM, said:

No thats YOUR misconception.

Because there are other players who agree with me in this same exact forum thread.

"there are other players who agree with me" is exactly the same kind of anecdotal trash the split the match maker crew used to somehow justify sabotaging this game.

Like, 4 guys on the forum (including you) don't get to go against the grain and get their way just because. Dissent for its own sake isn't virtuous by definition. Having a "diversity of ideas" useless if your diversity of ideas includes ones that are objectively crap.

Khobai, on 29 June 2021 - 04:57 AM, said:

See this is exactly what I mean about Cauldron not working with players.

Ash continues to prove what Cauldron is all about.

They are 100% uncompromising on everything.

Or perhaps you have an inflated sense of skill and authority that makes it impossible for you to understand the full implications of the things you ask for, and just how badly some of them would jack this game up. Everything these guys are doing is a compromise. A reimagining of the entire game via committee approved XML changes is compromise.

Unless of course your definition of compromise is "doing what khobai wants", because if that's the case, yeah pretty much everyone on earth is uncompromising, and you do not ask for things in good faith. All of your motives are ulterior.

Edited by pbiggz, 29 June 2021 - 05:11 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Khobai, on 29 June 2021 - 04:15 AM, said:

I dont see any of the above complaints being addressed by Cauldron though.

Despite your claims the Cauldron is not listening

May - SNPPC over performs, forums awash with complaints - it gets rebalanced (and is again July, I think). SNPPC is PPFLD, one of the things you have a major issue with with getting addressed.

April / May - SSRM rebalances don't achieve desired outcomes - July will see yet another rebalance for 3rd time, ve told you 4-5 times now it's happening. SSRM is another weapon system you've continually had issues with getting addressed.

Just because you are not getting every, single thing you want in no way means you are not being listened too. Please stop such nonsense statements.

[justcallme A S H]

Khobai, on 29 June 2021 - 04:57 AM, said:

They are 100% uncompromising on everything.

The most patently false thing you've posted this year.



This is probably the last time I'm going to give you friendly advice...

If you want to be listened too. Want to be taken seriously. Stop the nonsense.

[Khobai]

justcallme A S H, on 29 June 2021 - 05:22 AM, said:

The most patently false thing you've posted this year.



This is probably the last time I'm going to give you friendly advice...

If you want to be listened too. Want to be taken seriously. Stop the nonsense.

Its not false at all. You have proven how true it really is.

justcallme A S H, on 29 June 2021 - 05:16 AM, said:

Despite your claims the Cauldron is not listening

April / May - SSRM rebalances don't achieve desired outcomes - July will see yet another rebalance for 3rd time, ve told you 4-5 times now it's happening. SSRM is another weapon system you've continually had issues with getting addressed.

There was no issue with SSRMs in the first place. They were range limited. Lights could easily stay outside the 270m range of mechs with streaks. Streaks were entirely avoidable except when the streak mech and light mech were the only two mechs left in the game and that was just bad luck for the light.

The reason streaks were nerfed was to buff lights so they could facehug/anklebite with impunity and increase skill gap because Cauldron has the same misguided notion as PGI that lights should be equal to assaults at combat. Which is the exact opposite of battletech. The difference is PGI always kept streaks reasonably viable because they understood how many people cant properly aim and why they needed to keep the skill gap tighter.

The existence of powerful streaks forced lights to check mech loadouts before just running in haphazardly knowing nobody can aim. It created counterplay to help prevent lights from constantly being able to facehug and anklebite larger mechs in their blindspots. And it gave players who werent great at aiming a way of actually hitting something like a commando which is now one of the ultimate tanks in the game, which makes no sense at all, its a commando...

Even if Cauldron throws us a bone and buffs streaks, Streaks will still never be as good as they used to be. Thats part of their strategy, nerf streaks so badly, that when it comes time to buff them again the player base will be content with a lesser buff. Thats not Cauldron compromising its them deliberately nerfing streaks by making it seem like theyre buffing them so players are more willing to accept it. PGI did the exact same thing.

Cauldron views streaks as a lowskill weapon. They will never allow streaks to be as good as other weapons for that reason. Because they want the skill gap. And when the streak buffs come people will see that.

Edited by Khobai, 29 June 2021 - 05:51 AM.