180 replies to this topic

[El Cid]

pattonesque, on 30 June 2021 - 03:22 PM, said:

I would penalize people for stuff lol

every time they have the opportunity to fire at someone but do not and it's not because of heat it's a FIFTY DKP MINUS or the like

maybe we need an option to keep back seat drivers from riding along in our mechs (If we want)

don't you just love it when 11 people are all yelling in you ear what and how to do it?

[pattonesque]

El Cid, on 30 June 2021 - 06:14 PM, said:

maybe we need an option to keep back seat drivers from riding along in our mechs (If we want)

don't you just love it when 11 people are all yelling in you ear what and how to do it?

that can be annoying! but I think you do get useful information sometimes -- folks feeding you their last known targeting data and the like

you know what's weird? so many people fire at mechs without targeting them. hit R, people!

[w0qj]

Time to buy the Dire Wolf DWF-Prime(I) then, with the +30% CBills bonus, and the CT Armour quirk!!

http://mwomercs.com/clans

Vindicated, on 30 June 2021 - 10:47 AM, said:

The quirk the DWF needs most is to give some non-prime CT the armor quirk of the prime. Lots of people have basic UV without the prime CT. People running the 8AC2 UV without prime CT are technically suboptimal. This should be addressed via the same CT quirk or possibly some other buff that makes the UV CT desirable to run other than C-bill bonus and paintjob/name.

[Zordicron]

LOL, oh where has this thread gone now?
BUFF the DWF? hahahahahaha
Besides, DWF is still in bad boy timeout time because when clans launched you could put quad UAC10's on it and not ghost heat yourself into oblivion. So, even if by some wild imagination anecdotal story did it seem to need a buff, no way will PGI do it.

Know what needs a buff? The freeking Pretty baby. Not a DWF.....bwahahha, I am still chuckling over this!

And it seems the reasoning is.... players want to play mech assault and gotta go fast, so obviously the slower mechs should go fast too so the nascar players don;t lose their game through horrible situational awareness as often.... I guess?

Want to fix the game? Reward good team play. Personal glory through PSR and otherwise does not get along well with a team based game where mechs have rolls, weight classes have rolls, etc. So instead of pushing for the Esport PSR glory for me angle, maybe the game as a whole would be better if damage wasn't king for match score and players had tactical reasons to want to play their roles and win.
What the game is now, is basically a variant of the Military FPS games. Sure you have a team, but they are just other players that aren;t supposed to shoot you and provide distraction while you try to get the top spot on the match list for K/D right?
If invasion mode/faction warfare had been designed as a tactical match(and not designed with like 20,000 players online at once for the matchmaker) then there would be a place for both style of play.

But it isn;t, and it wasn;t, and it won;t be. You know, people in founders mechs still escort their fatty team mates. People in the (I) mechs do to, same with the other old players. They remember. I wish that would sink in for the newer crowd, but it conflicts with the Esports message from the dev team itself so...... here we are. I look forward to my 60kph DWF hahahahaha

[w0qj]

WOW, so you are saying that even in PSR T1 there are players who do not rotate/NASCAR?
There is hope in MWO after all!

(I hate NASCAR).

justcallme A S H, on 30 June 2021 - 01:51 PM, said:

My WLR Grouped is 6.0-9.0. I was not talking about that.

Prior to SoupQ I played some 7,000+ games SoloQ. That is where I had a 2.0-3.0 WLR. I maintain that dropping Solo currently in the SoupQ and every match I sure enough, don't NASCAR. I mark power positions on the map and the team holds them.

Running a slow Assault isn't an issue and I can categorically state that there are plenty of players who don't rotate. To claim everyone does it, is false.


Slightly off topic - I play around 80 / 20 - Grouped vs Solo. Be that 2-4 players, it varies.
When grouped lately I've even had brand new players joining my groups who come past my stream/discord wanting to learn/improve. I find that despite claims that there are no new players - the last 3 months, I've seen heaps and heaps of them.

[justcallme A S H]

Absolutely there it. I dubbed it the 'Aussie Toilet' manouver - reversing the NASCAR and flush the enemies down the loo.

It's pretty hilarious and gets a LOT of laughs on comms in game when it's explained what is happening. People even type it in chat now it's become that well known and a running laugh.

If only more people caught onto the strength of holding strong positions

[Snoopy]

An increase in the engine cap would only benefit non-onmi mechs. I'm also not sure whether a general increase in speed will reduce the problem described. In the DWF example mentioned, 4 kph is not much. The mech would still stay behind in the NASCAR, but it could possibly take a desired position more quickly, this could help.

An assault should IMHO not try to play the role of medium / heavy, he will always be second class or fail completely. It might be more helpful to reinforce the actual role of the assaults, absorbing damage for the team.

I'm really looking forward to the quirk rework and what it will adapt.
Thanks for this!

[Monkey Lover]

Snoopy, on 01 July 2021 - 12:02 AM, said:

An increase in the engine cap would only benefit non-onmi mechs. I'm also not sure whether a general increase in speed will reduce the problem described. In the DWF example mentioned, 4 kph is not much. The mech would still stay behind in the NASCAR, but it could possibly take a desired position more quickly, this could help.

An assault should IMHO not try to play the role of medium / heavy, he will always be second class or fail completely. It might be more helpful to reinforce the actual role of the assaults, absorbing damage for the team.

I'm really looking forward to the quirk rework and what it will adapt.
Thanks for this!

Maybe change speed tweak from a percentage to a set number. Other than 1.5% do 1.5 kph per speed tweak.


I really like to see this change to most skills when you can, armor for example. Percentage based skills rewards quirks way to much.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 01 July 2021 - 01:40 AM.

[Khobai]

Leone, on 30 June 2021 - 11:55 AM, said:

Okay, but the the Daishi should be put on the back burner for this as there're slower mechs that need more love. The entire urbanmech list often goes 32 kph, which I would point out is far slower than the Direwolf. Also, I've shadowhawks, hunchbacks and... A cataphract I believe that all go 48kph or a under. We should buff those mechs first, since they don't even have the durability of a direwolf. By that logic at least.

And that's just the ones I remember offa the top of my head. After using the direwolf and realizing that their slow speed keeps me from outrunning the pack in quickplay, I ended up under-engineing alotta my mechs for quickplay to keep me from engaging alone.

Wait.. in that case, wouldn't a speed increase nerf my mechs as I'd then be engaging sooner without my team as backup? I see what you're doing here, and I disapprove.

I've changed my stance, mech speeds are fine as is.

~Leone.

there arnt any mechs slower than the daishi. the daishi is stuck going 48kph.

none of the mechs you mentioned are speed capped at 48kph. they all have the option to take bigger engines to go faster.

if you make a slow urbie for example thats your choice. but you cant choose to make a daishi go faster.

Snoopy, on 01 July 2021 - 12:02 AM, said:

An increase in the engine cap would only benefit non-onmi mechs. I'm also not sure whether a general increase in speed will reduce the problem described. In the DWF example mentioned, 4 kph is not much. The mech would still stay behind in the NASCAR, but it could possibly take a desired position more quickly, this could help.

An assault should IMHO not try to play the role of medium / heavy, he will always be second class or fail completely. It might be more helpful to reinforce the actual role of the assaults, absorbing damage for the team.

I'm really looking forward to the quirk rework and what it will adapt.
Thanks for this!

the only omnimech that goes 48kph is the direwolf

thats the only omnimech you would need to give a max speed quirk too

every other omnimech goes 64kph or faster

the daishi is a unique case because its the only omnimech that goes less than 64kph thats why it should get a max speed quirk.

Zordicron, on 30 June 2021 - 07:04 PM, said:

Know what needs a buff? The freeking Pretty baby. Not a DWF.....bwahahha, I am still chuckling over this!

The direwolf absolutely needs a speed buff. So do all the assaults that cant go faster than 48kph like the annihilator. Because 48kph is too slow for quickplay. Everybody knows that.

Thats not to say the pretty baby doesnt need buffs too. But it doesnt need speed buffs

Edited by Khobai, 01 July 2021 - 03:13 AM.

[denAirwalkerrr]

Khobai, on 01 July 2021 - 02:59 AM, said:

there arnt any mechs slower than the daishi. the daishi is stuck going 48kph.

none of the mechs you mentioned are speed capped at 48kph. they all have the option to take bigger engines to go faster.

if you make a slow urbie for example thats your choice. but you cant choose to make a daishi go faster.



the only omnimech that goes 48kph is the direwolf

thats the only omnimech you would need to give a max speed quirk too

every other omnimech goes 64kph or faster

the daishi is a unique case because its the only omnimech that goes less than 64kph thats why it should get a max speed quirk.



The direwolf absolutely needs a speed buff. So do all the assaults that cant go faster than 48kph like the annihilator. Because 48kph is too slow for quickplay. Everybody knows that.

Thats not to say the pretty baby doesnt need buffs too. But it doesnt need speed buffs

The only clan assault that can mount more then 4 ballistics is Dire Wolf, the only mech in the entire game that can mount 2xUAC10+3xUAC5 is Dire Wolf, the only mech in the entire game that can mount 2xGauss+2xLPL+6xERML is Dire Wolf and again the only mech in the entire game that can mount 8xAC/UAC2 is Dire Wolf. Is doesn't need any buffs at the moment after agility buffs that fixed it complete inability to spread damage with torso speed buff and yaw angle buff from 60 to 85. It gets into power position on any map and sits there until either enemy team dies when trying to fight it or its' team leaves it and it gets eaten by 2-3 fast enemy mechs.

If you think 3 kph will make a huge difference feel free to invest into full speedtweak while any player who knows what 'assault mech' means will invest into maximum armor and firepower.

Edited by denAirwalkerrr, 01 July 2021 - 04:59 AM.

[McGoat]

Khobai, on 30 June 2021 - 07:16 AM, said:

one screenshot doesnt prove anything. for every screenshot you post there are probably hundreds of examples of players dying in direwolves with less than 200 match score because they couldnt keep up with their teams.


thanks

Fine, here's one that isn't from 2019 and isn't in an AC2 boat farming.
This was last night, literally playing as big 100t mek shoving myself into enemy positions. Also note that there's two DWF doing a fair bit more than the rest of the team




48kph is fine. You 100% should have to grasp positioning and awareness to be rewarded with using the loadout these mechs carry. For example, this was 2 UAC10 | 2 cLPL | 6 cERML.. For a 105 double tap there had better be some balance required in getting it to the fight.
(Build here for you to try yourself: https://mech.nav-alp...88de0_DWF-PRIME)

The next match IIRC was HPG and we spawned in B spawn T1, which is in the bottom of a crater annnnd it went as expected with ~500dmg coming out of each of us.
That does **not** mean the dire needs to be faster, it was/is sometimes an unfortunate by product of the map/spawns and often times player behavior.

Edited by McGoat, 01 July 2021 - 04:49 AM.

[The Basilisk]

MechaGnome, on 30 June 2021 - 05:05 AM, said:

Assault mechs have one roll.... Assaulting the opposition.. if you aren't breaking through the enemies front and getting at least one kill (preferably more) you aren't assaulting right.

They are designed to smash the enemy so the rest can roll over them.

No...realy not the way most assaults work...or should work in MWO...in BATTLETECH maybe ... some assaults but just maybe.
Since MWO basicaly aims to give all mech classes even viability in terms of the QP main goal i.e. "make enemy dead" no mech class realy has a class only role.
Realy .... its like the old "assaults should use their armor and tank" bs.
It has been shown over and over again that "ASSAULTS" at general are not sturdier than any medium or light when they get piloted by an equaly skilled player at chassis and class.
However there are single chassis that are better suited to do certain things.

So do Assaults somehow influence the pilots IQ (f.e. blood rushing down somewhere it has more fun than in the brain): No this is not the case but there are a lot of realy cool chassis in the assault class...more than in medium or light branch me thinks so the choice of weapon may more often be unwise...

Edited by The Basilisk, 01 July 2021 - 07:00 AM.

[The Basilisk]

Khobai, on 01 July 2021 - 02:59 AM, said:

there arnt any mechs slower than the daishi. the daishi is stuck going 48kph.

none of the mechs you mentioned are speed capped at 48kph. they all have the option to take bigger engines to go faster.

if you make a slow urbie for example thats your choice. but you cant choose to make a daishi go faster.



the only omnimech that goes 48kph is the direwolf

thats the only omnimech you would need to give a max speed quirk too

every other omnimech goes 64kph or faster

the daishi is a unique case because its the only omnimech that goes less than 64kph thats why it should get a max speed quirk.



The direwolf absolutely needs a speed buff. So do all the assaults that cant go faster than 48kph like the annihilator. Because 48kph is too slow for quickplay. Everybody knows that.

Thats not to say the pretty baby doesnt need buffs too. But it doesnt need speed buffs

Dear Khobai sometimes you want something and everyone trys to break a simple truth to you:

NO

[Khobai]

denAirwalkerrr, on 01 July 2021 - 04:33 AM, said:

The only clan assault that can mount more then 4 ballistics is Dire Wolf, the only mech in the entire game that can mount 2xUAC10+3xUAC5 is Dire Wolf, the only mech in the entire game that can mount 2xGauss+2xLPL+6xERML is Dire Wolf and again the only mech in the entire game that can mount 8xAC/UAC2 is Dire Wolf. Is doesn't need any buffs at the moment after agility buffs that fixed it complete inability to spread damage with torso speed buff and yaw angle buff from 60 to 85. It gets into power position on any map and sits there until either enemy team dies when trying to fight it or its' team leaves it and it gets eaten by 2-3 fast enemy mechs.

the direwolf is not the only clan assault that can mount more than 4 ballistics. theres the blood asp. theres also clan heavies that can run more than 4 ballistics like the night gyr. they all go 64kph.

Also in my opinion the madcat mk2 with x2 CUAC10 and x2 CUAC5 is far superior to the direwolf with x2 CUAC10 and x3 CUAC5. Even though it gets one less CUAC5, its autocannons are entirely arm mounted instead of torso mounted and it goes 64kph instead of 48kph. The madcat mK2 has generally better hitboxes too.

The direwolf is also not the only clan assault that can dual gauss + laser vomit. deathstrike is also extremely good at it (x2 gauss, x2 LPL or x2 CHLL, and x4 CERML) while still going at least 63kph. Again I find deathstrike is superior because of the faster speed and better hitboxes are more valuable to me than the slightly bigger alpha.

I do agree that the direwolf is the only mech that can run x8 CUAC2s though.

Theres also the fact the madcat MK2 can take both endo and ferro while the direwolf has neither. So the madcat MK2 is actually pretty close to the direwolf in available tonnage. which is a strong argument for why the direwolf should get a max speed quirk.

denAirwalkerrr, on 01 July 2021 - 04:33 AM, said:

If you think 3 kph will make a huge difference feel free to invest into full speedtweak while any player who knows what 'assault mech' means will invest into maximum armor and firepower.

if 3 kph makes doesnt make a huge difference then why are you so against giving the direwolf an extra 3 kph?

we both know speed tweak isnt worth the skill points so why would you even suggest that?

if you wanted to suggest a revamp to the mobility skill tree to make speed tweak more accessible for assaults that would be one thing. but your suggestion is entirely unhelpful.

The Basilisk, on 01 July 2021 - 05:22 AM, said:

Dear Khobai sometimes you want something and everyone trys to break a simple truth to you:

NO

yeah but these are the same people making factually untrue statements like "the direwolf is the only clan assault that can mount more than 4 ballistics".

if they cant fact check something as basic as that, why would I believe their "simple truths"? just saying.

Edited by Khobai, 01 July 2021 - 07:26 AM.

[Captain Caveman DE]

yeah.. direwolf-quirks of equal importance would be:

+5 RoF for MGs
+10%Range on Flamers
-1% heat on small lasers

dude, you should type less and play more. maybe some obvious gameplay-basics would be .. more obvious, then.

[Khobai]

Captain Caveman DE, on 01 July 2021 - 06:10 AM, said:

yeah.. direwolf-quirks of equal importance would be:

+5 RoF for MGs
+10%Range on Flamers
-1% heat on small lasers

dude, you should type less and play more. maybe some obvious gameplay-basics would be .. more obvious, then.

ive played more games than you. especially recently.

if playing games is what makes gameplay-basics obvious then it stands to reason your grasp of gameplay basics is worse than mine.

[Captain Caveman DE]

srsly not getting the point. entirely.

now, I could mention ... but:

Edited by Captain Caveman DE, 01 July 2021 - 07:15 AM.

[Khobai]

Youre right I dont understand your point. Because I firmly believe the direwolf is still inferior to other clan assaults like deathstrike.

And I dont see how your machine gun or flamer quirks or small laser heat buff elevates the direwolf at all to the same level as deathstrike.

The direwolf with a x2 gauss, x2 LPL, x6 CERML has an alpha of 95 but only goes 48kph. the direwolf has better armor/structure but thats entirely nullified by its worse hitboxes and worse agility and its worse performance stats which lead to it being exposed longer.

a deathstrike with x2 gauss, x2 CHLL, and x4 CERML has an alpha of 92 (with an admittedly longer beam duration on the heavy larges) but it also goes at least 63kph (and potentially faster) with better hitboxes and better agility and much better arm weapon articulation.

again FF and ES also give the deathstrike very close to the same available tonnage as the direwolf. so the fact the direwolf weighs 10 tons more means nothing it doesnt even get to enjoy that tonnage advantage. it gets kicked in the mechnuts by being an omnimech as opposed to a battlemech.

I believe people have been disingenuous about comparing the direwolf to other clan assaults to make the direwolf look better than it actually is. when in reality its far from the best clan assault.

Giving the direwolf a max speed quirk (+7.5%, enough to increase its max speed to 52) would help put it on better footing with other clan assaults like deathstrike. But it also works towards the larger purpose of speeding up all of the slowest mechs in the game so they get left behind less by their teams in quickplay.

Edited by Khobai, 01 July 2021 - 07:51 AM.

[McGoat]

Khobai, on 01 July 2021 - 07:30 AM, said:

Snip

Please share this 100% viable build with an XL350 (63kph, or faster) that doesn't get heatcapped stupidly fast.

[Khobai]

McGoat, on 01 July 2021 - 07:55 AM, said:

Please share this 100% viable build with an XL350 (63kph, or faster) that doesn't get heatcapped stupidly fast.

it only has 2 less DHS than the direwolf so it doesnt really get heat capped any faster than the direwolf does

it can easily have the same cooling as the direwolf if you drop the engine size down and get rid of FF to make room for extra DHS instead. I prefer the extra speed though thats my preference. But even with the smaller engine size youre still going considerably faster than the direwolf.

deathstrike has so many more customization options because its a battlemech.

The deathstrike build is x2 gauss, x2 clan heavy larges, x4 CERML, x5 tons of ammo, x17 DHS, 350 engine, and uses both endo and ferro.

Edited by Khobai, 01 July 2021 - 08:25 AM.