117 replies to this topic

[The Basilisk]

Heavy Money, on 30 July 2021 - 11:07 PM, said:

LRMs are very impressive when:
- Used with support/team cohesion
- Used against bad players

LRMs are unimpressive when:
- Used against good players
- Used without support/team cohesion.

LRMs are basically irrelevant in quickplay in higher tiers unless used by a coordinated group, but are effective when used by noobs against noobs. If you want to play LRMs and didn't bring a group who will support it, they are crap.

So basically, they can't ever be improved on average without breaking them in one bracket or another. Which means they'll remain a tilted weapon that is simultaneously whined about by part of the player base (t5) and isn't really used by other parts (t1 except groups.)

This isn't really a fun or ideal situation. It'd be nice if LRMs could be changed in some way that'd even this out and make them more viable unsupported and against skilled players, without making them more powerful in the other areas. IE, raise skill ceiling but also skill floor.

Now that is a blanced and well stated opinion

[HauptmanT]

Thorqemada, on 30 July 2021 - 01:55 PM, said:

Stuff

What you describes is NOT playing them smart.

Everything you described is the absolute wrong thing to do with them. Of course he had a bad time. I wouldnt watch that guy again, unless as a lolcow.

[LGBTQIAplus Ally]

The player using LRMS should be the one to have to get LOS for a lock. Then velocity etc can be buffed. People who like getting big damage numbers by sitting in the back and hitting one button should L2P.

[Saved By The Bell]

Guy in video even doesn't see the targets directly. Such style doesn't work on most maps and high tiers.

[Bud Crue]

Dogstar, on 01 August 2021 - 01:04 AM, said:

No one is asking for damage buffs, the damage output is in a good place, but it's the lock-on mechanics that are unfun, and the same applies to streaks too.

Honestly, I'd give lock on weapons their bigger targeting window back if for no other reason than to quite down some of the whinging.

[TELEFORCE]

I think the missiles are fine. I've been running missile boats (specifically ATM boats) for the entire Atlas challenge.

To be fair, ATMs weren't allowed to use indirect fire on tabletop. Clan Coyote's iATMs in the home worlds could, though, but I doubt we're ever going to see those unless we get a home worlds edition of MW5 or something...

[VeeOt Dragon]

as someone who plays a number of LRM boats i would like to add my bit here. (do keep in mind that i play almost exclusively IS mechs)

honestly as far as weapon stats go i think LRM are in a good place right now. the balance pass that gave a different flight path for LOS and IDF was a huge benefit to them without being a true buff (as many things were actually nerfed in that pass). if i were to change anything i would return the lock range back to before that pass. i would make it so that as long as the center of your crosshair is in that box the lock will function. at minimum make it so that once you get a lock it doesn't break unless the center of your crosshair leaves the target box.

now for all the Haters out there i say that its not always possible to get your own locks. i do most of the time but i won't turn down any lock i can get. also even with Tag and LOS it takes a couple seconds to get a lock. with the current pinpoint damage meta (honestly that has always been true). in that time a single mech can completely destroy you or leave you with half a mech and you aren't even ensured a lock let alone a hit. even if you do get a lock and fire the second you twist to spread damage you lose that lock. this is why so many just use IDF even though the spread is greater and the lock time longer. add to that ECM as well as skill nodes and you can see why most would prefer IDF.

i personally almost never us Tag on my LRM boats because its only useful less than half the time. i do use Active Probe or TC from time to time those still help. NARC is not worth the tonnage on an LRM boat. (i do have one mech that is a light that i have both on just for fun)

so if you want to encourage more folks to use LOS then you need to shorten the LOS lock time in addition to my previous suggestion. (leave the IDF where it is now)

as for ATM i never did like them as the range where they do max damage is relatively tiny, so i never really use them.

[PocketYoda]

Not needed ... they need to be removed imo.

Edited by MechaGnome, 01 August 2021 - 09:13 PM.

[Dogstar]

MechaGnome, on 01 August 2021 - 09:12 PM, said:

Not needed ... they need to be removed imo.

Good grief. Maybe you should play another game if you want to remove one of the signature features of a Battletech/Mechwarrior game.

[VeeOt Dragon]

yeah i don't feed stupid trolls

[R Valentine]

LRMs need no buff. They're already incredibly frustrating to play against, especially for the lower tiers. If anything, ATMs were a bit over-nerfed, but LRMs perform just fine. Any weapon system that does not require marksmanship or exposure to return fire needs to have significant drawbacks. The drawback to LRMs is your inability to trade damage with direct fire weapons, the inability to fight at close range, and the inability to select which components on the enemy you damage. Even provided all of that, LRMs with even a bit of coordination in a QP group can decimate a team. Even if you don't just outright farm them, you can pin them down in poor positions on the map and let your teammates surround them while they cower from missile fire. Sure, it works both ways, they can pin you down if they can find adequate cover that still allows them to shoot you, but that's the game for any weapon in MWO.

[Battlemaster56]

Personally want the stupid min. range to go on the atm so it can open some room to play other than pop on a veagle and f all, it give heavies and assaults some fight back from a random jumping in your face, or better yet make them medium and long range stronger so those ranges can be used more.

[Nightcrept]

I'm amazed after all these years the devs haven't gotten LRM's balanced yet. Does anyone know what the current stats are on LRM's?

[D V Devnull]

Nightcrept, on 02 August 2021 - 03:02 PM, said:

I'm amazed after all these years the devs haven't gotten LRM's balanced yet. Does anyone know what the current stats are on LRM's?

Two words sum them up... "Regrettably Underpowered" ...and they will probably stay that way even when they seriously should not.

Put simply, there is no good way to Balance LRMs in MWO's scope (and no good way to Balance Lock-Ons in general) due to too many people in the player base with varying opinions and mentalities. If you make Lock-Ons good enough to work like a 'Tier 5' PSR player with physical disabilities who is worn out from a long day at work and needs something enjoyable requires them to be, then it ends up making them way too freaking Overpowered at the 'Tier 1' PSR range and end up with backlash from those people. Sadly, that has resulted in Lock-Ons being left in many undesirable states, which has caused a shrinkage of the Player Base from those who can not do without them, and reduced play time for many people who can not constantly operate with only Ballistics/Energy/Non-Locking-Missiles as their weapons choices.

About all it would take now to finish destroying Lock-Ons would be to increase the Armor/Structure Limits to 3x TableTop's levels, but without requiring extra Tonnage for the added Armor that all Mechs would be allowed, and Lock-Ons would then simply be incapable of ever putting out honestly deadly damage until such time as serious buffs were applied.

~D. V. "Lock-Ons simply are not possible to Balance in a PvP environment with players of varying skill levels..." Devnull





(p.s.: Strangely, my memory from 5 years ago is pinging me after typing all of this... It is asking how the Lock-Ons were in some semblance of Balance back then... Maybe it was a Team willing to work together without regard to play style that was the key? Who knows... And unfortunately, that leaves me wondering who cares anymore about the answer to that...)

[VeeOt Dragon]

honestly i just wish people would use the damn R key more often. not just because of LRM mechs but also the help it gives you in targeting. pressing are gives you a paper doll that shows where the enemy is weak. even if you don't consider locking weapons the R key is of great strategic value. hell it also tells you what an enemy is armed with, look at the readout and see "oh they have all short range weapons so i will try to keep further back" or "oh they have all LRM/ATM with no backup weapons, time to get in close". i don't know how many times i have sat in a match cycling through other players after i died and never see one person use the R key.

i do agree that in the 4 or so years i have played MWO i have seen a reduction in actual team play meaning that weapons that benefit from it are reduced in effectiveness. nothing you can do really to fix that. (though honestly in solo, (even before the Soup Que i rarely played anything but QP) it seems the higher Tier you gt the the less likely people are to play as a team.

[Nightbird]

VeeOt Dragon, on 02 August 2021 - 07:24 PM, said:

honestly i just wish people would use the damn R key more often. not just because of LRM mechs but also the help it gives you in targeting. pressing are gives you a paper doll that shows where the enemy is weak. even if you don't consider locking weapons the R key is of great strategic value. hell it also tells you what an enemy is armed with, look at the readout and see "oh they have all short range weapons so i will try to keep further back" or "oh they have all LRM/ATM with no backup weapons, time to get in close". i don't know how many times i have sat in a match cycling through other players after i died and never see one person use the R key.

i do agree that in the 4 or so years i have played MWO i have seen a reduction in actual team play meaning that weapons that benefit from it are reduced in effectiveness. nothing you can do really to fix that. (though honestly in solo, (even before the Soup Que i rarely played anything but QP) it seems the higher Tier you gt the the less likely people are to play as a team.

I can explain why people don't hit R. When people use poking mechs, both for the laser vomit and PPFLD variety, they fire/twist/retreat on the order of 2 seconds or less. That is not enough time to get target info or anything else for that matter, and so they don't press R. A lock is usually only practical when you have someone's flank/ear and they don't see you or don't have the angle to shoot at you. Other builds, like face tankers (RACs, AC2s) or brawlers can hold a lock but they usually don't last long as they are trading armor at a fast rate. Most locks in a QP match comes from UAVs.

[Leone]

I often find myself hitting 'R' sos I can then 'enemy spotted' my target so as to know if they're displacing or waiting to get shot again. Of course, it's shoot first, target second.

~Leone

Edited by Leone, 02 August 2021 - 09:32 PM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

It'd be way easier to 'balance' Lrms if they handle just like every other weapon:
no locks from others, just self-locks.

but .. yeah, you can hear the IDF-crew typing right now..



"You get the locks, and I'll make it rain.."

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 03 August 2021 - 03:38 AM.

[Dogstar]

Leone, on 02 August 2021 - 09:31 PM, said:

I often find myself hitting 'R' sos I can then 'enemy spotted' my target so as to know if they're displacing or waiting to get shot again. Of course, it's shoot first, target second.

~Leone

I don't think you actually need a lock to use 'enemy spotted', do you? (confused now)

[MyriadDigits]

Dogstar, on 03 August 2021 - 07:48 AM, said:

I don't think you actually need a lock to use 'enemy spotted', do you? (confused now)

You do not need a lock to use the target spotted command, but afaik you do need the reticle on the mech you intend to spot.