53 replies to this topic

[Wulverado]

Title pretty much says it all.

Im running NOVA with 3 AMS (Laser version) is this overkill?

Does the laser -AMS and ammo-AMS work the same way ?

I tend to run with the assaults and other who have to expose longer and provide them with AMS services, while trying to not block their retreat ;D

ANSWER:

PS. Read the posts good info there this is just tldr:


THERE CAN NEWER BE TOO MUCH DAKKA.

THINK OF AMS AS DAKKA ! NEWER ENOUGH DAKKA!

Edited by Wulverado, 02 August 2021 - 08:54 AM.

[pattonesque]

the COR-7A runs four AMS and no one considers that overkill, if there are LRMs on the enemy team then AMS boats can help quite a bit

[Bud Crue]

As to the laser vs ammo. Laser is far more effective now that they tapped the heat output down, but I don't know that I'd be comfortable running all three as laser, on an all energy build like the Nova. As to over kill, I typically play a laser vomit or MPL Jester with 2 A-AMS and rarely run out of ammo even with only a ton and a half of ammo. Others I know who also favor the Jester switched to 2 L-AMS and have reported no problems with excess heat.

[w0qj]

Tier 1/2 uses much less missiles as players actively negate using tactics...
Tier 4/5 uses a lot more missiles...

2x/3x/4x AMS is quite effective, especially when you also skill out the 2x AMS Overload skill nodes in Survival Skill Tree...

1x/2x AMS is about protecting yourself...
2x/3x/4x AMS you can protect your teammates too!

Clan Laser-AMS is OK at 1 ton each...
But for IS Laser-AMS @1.5ton for IS adds up very quickly when you are deploying multiple AMS... some IS players use regular AMS and shared ammo... (my general rule of thumb is 0.5ton of AMS ammo per AMS deployed on your mech... it's enough for most games...)

By the way, AMS ammo does not explode anymore when enemy crit your AMS ammo...

Finally, whenever an Event requiring missile damage grind, there will be a lot of missiles ingame for 1+ week!
Like we are about to get our upcoming August free mech Event, likely will need missile damage

Edited by w0qj, 02 August 2021 - 07:11 AM.

[1453 R]

Most typical BattleMechs easily have enough cooling to overcome the heat onus of laser AMS. While the systems are active your cooling is rather drastically affected, but LAMS isn't going to push you over the limit.

Generally? I say that a 'Mech team has enough AMS if and when someone shoots missiles at that 'Mech and the AMS systems shoot down every one before they reach armor. That is generally held to be impossible, so much like dakka, there is never 'enough' AMS. Or enuf AMS, depending on your lexicon. Regardless, triple overloaded AMS can do quite a bit to blunt the worst excess of enemy missile monsters. On Clan 'Mechs especially, where cLAMS is a one-slot, one-ton minor investment, I try to cram one onto every 'Mech I can.

Every AMS that can take a bite out of a missile barrage is damage somebody doesn't take; if you're one of those folks that constantly carps about how unfair LRMs are (spoilers: you're wrong) and you don't take AMS whenever possible? You should really reconsider your choices.

[VeeOt Dragon]

as someone who uses a number of LRM boats i say yes 3 is overkill but that is only joking. honestly though no its just tactically sound. hell i run my quad AMS Corsair-7A from time to time (i run 2 ammo (with one tone each) and 2 LAMS with 2 RAC/5 and 4 ML). i also agree that if you have an AMS slot and don't use it then don;t complain when you get pelted by missiles. LRM have so many counters that i honestly can't understand why people ***** about them so much. they aren't even all that easy to use as things sit right now even if i do think stat wise they are well balanced at the moment (could use an increase to the lock area but thats about it)

AMS is a support system just like ECM, TAG, and NARC (odd that all 4 of these systems that support not only yourself but your allies have a large effect on locking weapons.). if absolutely nothing else its extra C-bills and match score with less damage taken. makes them worth taking in and of that if you ask me.

[Wulverado]

Thanks for all good and informative posts about the matter.

I shall bring my umbrella on for many games to come , also there were good insights i didnt know!

I will update first post so lazy poeples dont have to read ;D

[R Valentine]

It only takes 2 dedicated LRM mechs to overcome the 4 AMS of a Corsair. The Corsair absolutely folds under the pressure of 3, especially if it's IS LRMs that strike in clusters instead of streams. 3 is nowhere near overkill. In fact, I'd say it's the bare minimum. If a mech can't fit 3 AMS, I won't fit any at all barring the inability to fit any other useful equipment.

[1453 R]

That's always struck me as such a bizarre, nonsensical policy. "I can't fit enough AMS, so I'm not gonna bother with any at all."

Why?

If three 'Mechs each take one AMS unit, then when they're together they each benefit from triple AMS. People murderball and clump up like dodgy cat litter as it is; if everybody on the team had one AMS unit, enemy missile spam would be almost entirely ineffective. Yes, your own personal survival is usually better served by maxing out Radar Derp, but nothing says you can't do both. OmniMechs often don't get a choice because Piranha loves putting AMS on the most useless pointless worthless pods it can find, but everything else not named X-5 has at least one AMS. if more people used it, they'd complain about missiles less.

If you decide not to bother taking any precautions or countermeasures to deal with enemy missile fire, why do you think it's okay to screech and caterwaul about enemy missile fire violating you?

Edited by 1453 R, 02 August 2021 - 11:25 AM.

[HammerMaster]

1453 R, on 02 August 2021 - 11:24 AM, said:

That's always struck me as such a bizarre, nonsensical policy. "I can't fit enough AMS, so I'm not gonna bother with any at all."

Why?

If three 'Mechs each take one AMS unit, then when they're together they each benefit from triple AMS. People murderball and clump up like dodgy cat litter as it is; if everybody on the team had one AMS unit, enemy missile spam would be almost entirely ineffective. Yes, your own personal survival is usually better served by maxing out Radar Derp, but nothing says you can't do both. OmniMechs often don't get a choice because Piranha loves putting AMS on the most useless pointless worthless pods it can find, but everything else not named X-5 has at least one AMS. if more people used it, they'd complain about missiles less.

If you decide not to bother taking any precautions or countermeasures to deal with enemy missile fire, why do you think it's okay to screech and caterwaul about enemy missile fire violating you?

Anecdotal but I "FEEL" like when there is 3 single ams mechs vs 1 3x ams mech. I worry more about being ineffective missile wise vs the 3AMS user. I'd love for someone to truly test it. It seems like the the 3xAMS mech is a MONSTER to overcome.

[pattonesque]

HammerMaster, on 02 August 2021 - 01:31 PM, said:

Anecdotal but I "FEEL" like when there is 3 single ams mechs vs 1 3x ams mech. I worry more about being ineffective missile wise vs the 3AMS user. I'd love for someone to truly test it. It seems like the the 3xAMS mech is a MONSTER to overcome.

well, those 3 AMS from one mech are gonna be coming from exactly the same spot, so if you fire anywhere near that spot you're getting 100 percent covered.

Three AMS from three different mechs means they'll be in slightly different locations most of the time. So it's more like 80% effectiveness

[HammerMaster]

pattonesque, on 02 August 2021 - 01:34 PM, said:

well, those 3 AMS from one mech are gonna be coming from exactly the same spot, so if you fire anywhere near that spot you're getting 100 percent covered.

Three AMS from three different mechs means they'll be in slightly different locations most of the time. So it's more like 80% effectiveness

Agreed. I'd like to see someone do a spreadsheet and a test. I don't have the gumption to get involved.

[w0qj]

As an avid LRM user (read: MAD-4HP with LRM100):

3x AMS on one mech does make it harder/longer to take it out, you definitely need to LRM sandblast it for longer (and expend more LRM ammo) to weaken/kill it.

For 3x or 4x AMS mechs, even with no coordination, I tend to mark out the COR-7A (with 4x AMS usually) and only hit it after I see another LRM boat is already hitting COR-7A. Keep LRMing it until it dies, or your team mates close in on it to finish it off.
It can be done.

HammerMaster, on 02 August 2021 - 01:31 PM, said:

Anecdotal but I "FEEL" like when there is 3 single ams mechs vs 1 3x ams mech. I worry more about being ineffective missile wise vs the 3AMS user. I'd love for someone to truly test it. It seems like the the 3xAMS mech is a MONSTER to overcome.

Edited by w0qj, 02 August 2021 - 06:25 PM.

[Nerokar]

For me it is a hit or miss.

There are matches where my 3xAMS kitfox feels like wasted tonnage because of after the match I got 250 shots of 6000 fired.
On other matches I do not stop hearing the AMS sound up to the moment the ammo is depleted. Meaning 1000-1100 Rockets shot down. In this case a regret stripping the 3rd tonn of ammo for an other erML.

As for AMS overkill: There can not be a thing like this. I was in a match on the old polar highlands with 3xAMS KFX and teamed up with an KGC and an 4xAMS COR. The KGC tried to peek and was lurmed. To the moment he was back to cover he was under 70%.

Ok... It was a Crab, slow and huge. And he ate some direct hits. But still, it was kinda impressive to see all the LRM hits on him despite 7 AMS support (at least 3 of them skilled).

[w0qj]

Perhaps team support AMS protection is not quite as effective as we all presume?

1) AMS self-protection:
MWO server checks LRM distance vs your mech, and makes direct calculations on how many missiles gets shot down in real time.
(hence AMS shoots through buildings, and tunnels--just look at distance only).

2) AMS team protection:
Perhaps we are approaching MWO server limits here, as MWO server has to check for each and every enemy missile the missile/mech distance for everyone else in your team, and do real time calculations on how many missiles gets shot down in real time.

Perhaps MWO did a shortcut, check only 50% of the time or even 25% of the time in such AMS team protection situation, to help lighten up the MWO server load? Net effect: AMS shoots much less often when doing AMS team protection?

Just my own wild guess.

Edited by w0qj, 03 August 2021 - 02:33 AM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

outside of events OR specific roles for faction warfare, I'd never take more than 1 AMS, and often not that single 1.

ams is great if you have tons AND critspace left - and NOTHING sensible to fill it up with.
example: the rac-marauder with arm-lasers. I put an ams on it.


if you can take anything else, like a weapon that compliments your build, an additional heatsink or 2 - take that.

you win QP by killing mechs;
ams don't kill mechs, shooting them does.

[Storming Angel]

just need a 5xams mech call it the Sky Master

[1453 R]

What's always hilarious is watching someone try to use the quad AMS Piranha as a quad AMS Piranha. It's all "son, do you...do you realize how little payload space there is in a Piranha? Even the best possible payload I can think of for that little sucker is the next best thing to unarmed after cramming four AMS in there. What do you think you're doing, you adorable little nitwit?"

[HauptmanT]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 03 August 2021 - 03:58 AM, said:

outside of events OR specific roles for faction warfare, I'd never take more than 1 AMS, and often not that single 1.

ams is great if you have tons AND critspace left - and NOTHING sensible to fill it up with.
example: the rac-marauder with arm-lasers. I put an ams on it.


if you can take anything else, like a weapon that compliments your build, an additional heatsink or 2 - take that.

you win QP by killing mechs;
ams don't kill mechs, shooting them does.

I like people like you. It's folk like you that allow me to outshoot my enemies.

You do your cute little hill hump in between shots, for your 50pt laser burn every 10 seconds or so.
My 60 tubes will be raining on you non stop, and I will out DPS you easily.

Every AMS in the group I am firing into greatly affects my overall damage. Never leave home without it if you know what's good for you, when I'm around.

[pattonesque]

HauptmanT, on 03 August 2021 - 11:32 AM, said:

I like people like you. It's folk like you that allow me to outshoot my enemies.

You do your cute little hill hump in between shots, for your 50pt laser burn every 10 seconds or so.
My 60 tubes will be raining on you non stop, and I will out DPS you easily.

Every AMS in the group I am firing into greatly affects my overall damage. Never leave home without it if you know what's good for you, when I'm around.

yeah but if he knows what he's doing he'll just go behind a wall or something