266 replies to this topic

[pattonesque]

Ghostrider0067, on 21 August 2021 - 10:47 AM, said:

That's a pretty blanket generalization. You can't back that statement up with conclusive facts, so why do that?

it's the only explanation for looking at a map with oodles of cover and routes to contest snipers and effectively giving up already

[Daeron Katz]

Jon McFuzzy, on 20 August 2021 - 08:20 PM, said:

+ Engine sales please. Lots of poor souls out there with very limited C-billz.

Sounds good to me.

[Daeron Katz]

Navid A1, on 20 August 2021 - 10:22 PM, said:

I wish some screenshots could have been provided around the center close to the ground where a mech usually is so people could understand that this is not going to be a sniper or LRM fest.

The back-end build for me to get screenshots is shut down over the weekend or I would add a couple to illustrate that, maybe I can do that Monday morning. But in the end, everyone's going to find out Tuesday morning anyway

Charon DOC Stock, on 21 August 2021 - 12:41 AM, said:

Can you add the old version of polar, canyon and HPG to the private lobby?

The new versions are just lambda maps for videogames, a tasteless pile of ramps and walls.
It is hard to create scenario in such environement. The older versions were telling a story.

Adding the original versions to private lobbies is something we've discussed and I would say is likely.

[Daeron Katz]

Dogstar, on 21 August 2021 - 01:24 AM, said:

Excellent! I really like the look of the new HPG, like a twisty little maze, I hope there's still some underground elements.

New quirks are excellent too, some strong thematic choices, like really good buffs for light mechs that desperately need them, and tanky buffs for assault mechs

The underground/basement area remains as it was previously.

[Clay Endfield]

Just wanted to ask for Clarification: is the MAD-4A, MAD-5A, and Alpha Hero mech going to retain their structure bonuses to the Legs and Arms? Because if so, we're looking at + 27 EHP on either arm (+15 Armor; +12 Structure) and + 31 EHP ( +15 Armor; +16 Structure) on either Leg, which will make them some pretty damn robust mechs. Given that Lore wise, they rivaled the Atlas in durability, and that they're kinda restricted on Firepower compared to other MWO IS 100 tonners (Hardpoint Counts/Hardpoint locations), I'm not opposed to them being rugged AF; but the MAD-4A got one hell of an offensive quirk in the +1 PPC family HSL quirk; which pretty much means it can Jump-Snipe with 3x Heavy PPCs.

The MAD-5A needs all the help it can get, given it's competing with Annihilators, Fafnirs, and King Crabs in the 100 tonner Energy/Ballistic Direct Damage department (and even with these quirks, its still gonna be undergunned), but the MAD-4A is gonna be a top tier mech with that bulk, that mobility, those JJs, and that Midrange Pinpoint damage on higher than cockpit mounts. It just seems a bit much, even for a Marauder fanboy such as myself.

Edited by Clay Endfield, 21 August 2021 - 02:15 PM.

[Clay Endfield]

crazytimes, on 21 August 2021 - 01:41 AM, said:

Nearly all of my favourite mechs are getting significant quirk boosts. This make me sad.

What excuse am I going to have for being bad after the quirks are Improved?

I like going against the meta with some silly builds, and so many of my favorite non-meta mechs are getting the beejeezus buffed out of them. Now, some are probably gonna become meta, and with them, me...

I am preemptively disgusted with myself.

[Scout Derek]

FLG 01, on 21 August 2021 - 03:02 AM, said:

"more tanky" - you basically doubled the survival quirks, and improved the offensive quirks. Combined with the previous mobility buff, and rather solid geometry, the Shadow Hawk will probably be one of the strongest mediums out there.
Not saying that's a bad thing

The most important quirk it's getting is the LT armor quirk on top of the structure. Now, if it had Crit chance reduction as well, it may as very well have been considered one of the strongest, I predict this change though will just make it blend better into taking more damage in the long run, since the chassis suffers from a rather larger hitbox than some mechs of it's class, which is what it needs; especially when taken into the brawling category, you either need good size and mobility, or quirks that help supplement the skill needed to pilot the mech to allow it to keep up with and against other mechs in quickplay.

In the 1v1 category however, this thing will likely clap most mediums it goes up against in terms of a straight up brawl. Still don't know how it'll fair against an Assassin in terms of SRM vs SRM only, but I know other combos will likely wreck the Assassin in general.

[-Ramrod-]

Ahh good. The Incubus definitely needed some love. So did the Hellspawn.

[C337Skymaster]

Navid A1, on 21 August 2021 - 10:26 AM, said:

Basement is there, same as before

If the basement is exactly the same as before, then what's that fusion reactor in the center of the basement powering, now? Before, it was directly beneath the HPG antenna dish, and was obviously part of the power source for that antenna. Now we're gonna have a power source with nothing above it?

[Navid A1]

C337Skymaster, on 21 August 2021 - 08:14 PM, said:

If the basement is exactly the same as before, then what's that fusion reactor in the center of the basement powering, now? Before, it was directly beneath the HPG antenna dish, and was obviously part of the power source for that antenna. Now we're gonna have a power source with nothing above it?

It's now powering the giant dish through an underground conduit.

[ScrapIron Prime]

C337Skymaster, on 21 August 2021 - 08:14 PM, said:

If the basement is exactly the same as before, then what's that fusion reactor in the center of the basement powering, now? Before, it was directly beneath the HPG antenna dish, and was obviously part of the power source for that antenna. Now we're gonna have a power source with nothing above it?

Perhaps technology has advanced to the point where a power source can be BESIDE something instead of underneath it. Perhaps power can be generated in one place and transmitted to be used someplace else. Boggles the mind, I know.

[Scout Derek]

C337Skymaster, on 21 August 2021 - 08:14 PM, said:

If the basement is exactly the same as before, then what's that fusion reactor in the center of the basement powering, now? Before, it was directly beneath the HPG antenna dish, and was obviously part of the power source for that antenna. Now we're gonna have a power source with nothing above it?

[Temporary Axis]

C337Skymaster, on 21 August 2021 - 08:14 PM, said:

If the basement is exactly the same as before, then what's that fusion reactor in the center of the basement powering, now? Before, it was directly beneath the HPG antenna dish, and was obviously part of the power source for that antenna. Now we're gonna have a power source with nothing above it?

I don't think 'muh immersion' is a large factor in the playability of a map.

Have you heard about MW5? It was designed to catering to all your lore/tabletop needs.

[justcallme A S H]

Navid A1, on 21 August 2021 - 08:18 PM, said:

It's now powering the giant dish through an underground conduit.

Lol.... I can't even.


I wonder if I clip through terrain I'll see this secret conduit you now speak of. It better be there or my inner LORE is gonna have a stern chat with you.

[RickySpanish]

justcallme A S H, on 21 August 2021 - 08:21 PM, said:

Lol.... I can't even.


I wonder if I clip through terrain I'll see this secret conduit you now speak of. It better be there or my inner LORE is gonna have a stern chat with you.

Temporary Axis, on 21 August 2021 - 08:21 PM, said:

I don't think 'muh immersion' is a large factor in the playability of a map.

Have you heard about MW5? It was designed to catering to all your lore/tabletop needs.

You laugh, but believable map design is what separated Half-Life from Quake 2, and every other fps that came before it. "muh immersion" is pretty important, and it needn't force maps to be designed in any particular way. When I first saw the new HPG my immediate reaction was "Where's the dish? Why does the basement exist now?". The dish has been moved, but yes there ought to be some indication that the reactor is powering it. People do tend to make light of these finnicky things, but I have yet to meet a lead designer who didn't take even the finnicky things quite seriously.

Edited by RickySpanish, 21 August 2021 - 08:38 PM.

[Navid A1]

RickySpanish, on 21 August 2021 - 08:28 PM, said:

You laugh, but believable map design is what separated Half-Life from Quake 2, and every other fps that came before it. "muh immersion" is pretty important, and it needn't force maps to be designed in any particular way. When I first saw the new HPG my immediate reaction was "Where's the dish? Why does the basement exist now?".

I'm actually an electrical engineer, specialty being electromagnetics and power generation.

I can comment on realism on this case
You would never build your power loads right on top of the power source... you'd want those in a safe distance from each other, both to allow protective and control gear and to have a physical safe distance (depending on multiple factors, from arc distance to security). Also when it comes to high power antennas, the distance also ensures minimized EM interference.

Also making a reactor underground is a pretty common practice to minimize exposure to the open area around (both from inside perspective and outside), and to maximize security when a military target is involved.


The old HPG map was completely unrealistic both in terms of communication reliability, EM disturbance cause by the reactor, Structural stability with a giant mass being placed over a hollow cavity with physical restraints and supports being located inwards towards the center rather than outwards like a pyramid. Also since this is a military target, it means destroying the antenna from orbit also nukes the power source, making it very costly to unearth the reactor to rebuild



I hope I could bring some immersion into the discussion.

Edited by Navid A1, 21 August 2021 - 08:51 PM.

[John Bronco]

That's going to create some great new scenarios, thanks Navid!

[Temporary Axis]

Navid A1, on 21 August 2021 - 08:43 PM, said:

I'm actually an electrical engineer, specialty being electromagnetics and power generation.

I can comment on realism on this case
You would never build your power loads right on top of the power source... you'd want those in a safe distance from each other, both to allow protective and control gear and to have a physical safe distance (depending on multiple factors, from arc distance to security). Also when it comes to high power antennas, the distance also ensures minimized EM interference.

Also making a reactor underground is a pretty common practice to minimize exposure to the open area around (both from inside perspective and outside), and to maximize security when a military target is involved.


The old HPG map was completely unrealistic both in terms of communication reliability, EM disturbance cause by the reactor, Structural stability with a giant mass being placed over a hollow cavity with physical restraints and supports being located inwards towards the center rather than outwards like a pyramid. Also since this is a military target, it means destroying the antenna from orbit also nukes the power source, making it very costly to unearth the reactor to rebuild



I hope I could bring some immersion into the discussion.

Thank you for taking the time to write this out and preserving game 'immershun' in a make believe universe.

Edited by Temporary Axis, 21 August 2021 - 09:53 PM.

[Trigger the three airstrikes]

Ramps going to the walls that arent out of bounds!? *sniff* thanks for making it easier for my no jumpjet Daishi to get on the wall

[Arkhangel]

Good to see another of one of the worst maps get a nice redo (and honestly most of the complainers are folks who liked taking advantage of WHY they were bad maps in the first place).

Still keeps the spirit of the old map, but it's less "Why the hell are we using weapons fire in the direction of a giant piece of lostech?!"

Mean, the Comguards'll still kill us for being that close to an HPG, but Actively fighting AROUND it was even more moronic (since the entire reason you'd even be there is trying to capture one, and the top brass would skin you alive if you damaged it).

Edited by Arkhangel, 21 August 2021 - 11:38 PM.