85 replies to this topic

[JC Daxion]

ScrapIron Prime, on 31 August 2021 - 10:59 AM, said:

So you're saying that a brawler being a speed bump on the way to someone earning their Ace of Spades is good game play, but a sniper making someone stop advancing and instead take cover for a few seconds isn't? That doesn't seem like a fair comparison.

that is not what i said at all.. I said,, If a brawler or someone else gets killed in quick fashion at least they made the team do something.. A sniper that does 100 damage and most of it at the very end after everyone dead is totally useless. At least the useless speed bump might give me some help, the guy trying to snipe that isn't even in a spot to help for 3/4 of the match not so much.

For example i had a match earlier,, I screwed up, got cored from behind from an assault that i didn't realize were it was. I was one of the first people dead so i got to spectate. I moved around until i found an awesome that was up on the wall in HPG shooting LRM's.

The problem was he was never attacking a single mech that the team was fighting, He spent the whole match lobbing random LRM's at all sorts of targets that ended up in the open, but they got to cover more than fast enough to do anything. Even if he had been PPC sniping it wouldn't have been much better because he barely had line of site on anything.

Again most of his damage came as their team came out looking for the last light, He did get a kill of something that was already cherry and decided to trade some fire.. when the LRM boat was the last one left.. He could of easily hid. In the end the guy had a lot of damage, on all sorts of mechs, only killed one, and nearly all of it was after most of the team was dead.

Sure you could blame me for getting out of position, or not knowing the new HPG as well.. I didn't realize i had a tunnel right behind me.. But instead the team was down 2 people right from the start one on accident, the other on purpose. I was actually in a sniper build myself.

If that person wanted to do that, why didn't they say hey pull um to X location, Or call out a target or what ever.. instead they sit and wait for sometimes 2 full mins and not take a single shot and never move.

What was even more maddening was the guy actually knew how to play. He used cover, had tag, ext.. he could of easily moved up to the group and helped for that match even if he didn't get to sit on the wall and snipe.

I'm certainly not a top pro in this game, but i try. Sometimes it just feels like others go out of their way not to try and work together. Snipers and LRM folks can get a bad rap for sure, but sometimes it's also for a reason you know?

Edited by JC Daxion, 31 August 2021 - 07:28 PM.

[Saved By The Bell]

Leave him alone, he was not afc. He was trying.

When bunch of potato group together, calling this "share armor, cooperation", its not better. Yesterday played lights. When I shoot and tried to go back, every time some idiot standing just behind me and my light got a full alfa from hellbringer, etc. Thats you call "share the armor".

[RoadToDohWhere]

Some one mentioned sharing attention is the spirit of sharing armor.
If a pilot uses terrain masking and trades very well and never gets hit
, they will be at 100% armor even if they draw/share attention.

You could say that someone who is sharing armor is sharing attention badly.
That's what it sounds like to me.

Edited by RoadToDohWhere, 02 September 2021 - 01:55 AM.

[Hierarch]

I've seen too many lurm boats sitting on the low ground of Canyon trying to lock light mechs to count. Problem is, is that once everyone is dead the eyes will be on that sniper at the end of the game. Everyone has watched that sucky dude at the end of the game who can't even turn his screen to fire his medium laser. That's the rap you're working with, meanwhile the much much larger problem with the game is the crazy light pilot that kamikazes into 10 enemies at the start of the match and no one bats an eye because you can't really watch that happen.

[Wildstreak]

HermesFenix, on 30 August 2021 - 03:39 PM, said:

But even if I performed bad. It's no reason to treat people bad. Let people play how they like as long as the don't abuse anyone.

Except some players are being abusive based on how they play.
1 - The streamers / creators who intentionally build and play badly recording the rage of both friend and foe for 'viewer entertainment.'
2 - The players playing drunk / high / in a bad mood thinking playing makes it better but it doesn't.
3 - The players who DGAF. Seen creators / streamers who do this, at match start they state they don't care about anyone else on their team thus not playing as if on a team, some flat out mute people match start despite no one being hostile. Then these players play a team game as a solo Rambo game. Personally I think the Battle Royale craze and conditioning made this worse in 2018, it existed to a lesser degree earlier than that.

There are many different types of players out there and some honestly should not be playing.

HermesFenix, on 30 August 2021 - 03:39 PM, said:

I get that people get frustrated when they lose, but first, this is just a game, you lose all the time. Second, frustration is not an excuse to behave violently. And third, respect other players and their playstyles.

Some of the time, not all.
Other than TK'ing or making RL threats as seen in 2 B33f videos of a different player doing that to B33f, really not possible. BTW you are not factoring in that some people TK not for frustration but because they think it is amusing. MWO has had rare times for this yet it does happen, other shooters have it worse.
Some playstyles like examples I gave cannot be respected.

Edited by Wildstreak, 02 September 2021 - 01:05 PM.

[caravann]

The main reason why is because there are A LOT of sniper variety :

"AC2,UAC2,AC5,UAC5,UAC5,AC10,UAC10,AC20,UAC20,LBX2,LBX5,LBX10,LBX20,Light PPC,PPC,ER PPC, ER Large Laser, Large laser,Light Gauss, Gauss, Heavy Gauss"

And them all "just work" together in any combination you want.

You can not example combine LRM with SRM or make MRM work with either SRM or LRM at their optimal range

[D V Devnull]

caravann, on 04 September 2021 - 07:57 AM, said:

The main reason why is because there are A LOT of sniper variety :

"AC2,UAC2,AC5,UAC5,UAC5,AC10,UAC10,AC20,UAC20,LBX2,LBX5,LBX10,LBX20,Light PPC,PPC,ER PPC, ER Large Laser, Large laser,Light Gauss, Gauss, Heavy Gauss"

And them all "just work" together in any combination you want.

You can not example combine LRM with SRM or make MRM work with either SRM or LRM at their optimal range

Unfortunate, but true. And that entire Ballistic Weapons Class and part of the Energy Class are literally the ONLY ones in MWO to provide that kind of capability to players at this time. Even trying to mix LRM/ATM/SSRM on the Clan side is an absolute roll of the dice, along with your mention of LRM/MRM/SSRM on the Inner Sphere side of things, and far too feast-or-famine as MWO's environment currently stands. All of those Lock-On Weapons need to be made more able to compete against all of the Sniper-type Ballistic & Energy Weapons which you have mentioned, particularly in the Indirect (But also definitely in the Direct Style as well... oh wait, that wouldn't match what a real Missile is like, would it?) Fire forms of attack, seeing as using a Lock-On Weapon literally forbids & denies any Torso Twisting to the user while they're shooting.

Heck, pardon my getting into a little release of mental anger (It's not aimed at you, 'caravann'... Sorry in advance!)... I've personally been forced to reduce my active play time and number of Match plays per Month/Season due to not really having Indirect-Style Lock-On Weapons to fall back on when feeling exhausted. (And in all seriousness, I would not be surprised if there are a fair bunch of people experiencing something reminiscent to the same issue as myself. This is made even worse when one has either a slow computer and/or suffers from some form of physical disability that restrains their capability. Like someone said to me, "The mind is willing, but the body is weak.", and the current Game Balance leaves no solace for anyone who is not in great shape.) That actually aggravates me, as I literally loathe & hate to leave the MatchMaking System shorted on population present in the Queue for making game rounds which all of us play. How are we supposed to have MWO last well into the future anyway if we are unable to have enough people online and playing at any given time in order to attract even more people?

And just in case anyone is wondering, I don't have a want to turn the whole game into some kind of insane Lock-On-ageddon either. But, it does happen that I would definitely like to recover all the people we lost when the first Anti-Lock-On Changes landed several years ago, all the way back at around the December 2015 time period. And that goes with also wanting to recover people lost around the time of Faction Warfare 3.0 being released into the game about a few months after that, somewhere around the April 2016 Changes happening, if I remember correctly. (At least all we need to do for Faction Warfare is to return to the tug-of-war format, and bring back Scouting too... Oh, and stop doing what I heard about trying to lock people into a single side only during a conflict cycle happening, in order to allow the population potentially balancing itself... That would at least allow getting some nice Events going once again in Faction Warfare for everyone without any real hassle.)

~D. V. "some thoughts from one who saw the first Lock-On Nerfs and how the population first crashed" Devnull

[R Valentine]

LordNothing, on 29 August 2021 - 06:35 PM, said:

snipers are fine if they function as part of a team. the snipers nobody likes are the ones left alive at the end of the game with full armor and usually no kills. usually in a build with a very weak alpha. they effectively deprive the team of a mech slot that could have been put to better use. a pro sniper stacks enough damage to be useful and can get kills at range.

You can say that about literally every mech and build. It's QP. No one plays as a team. Sometimes you happen to be going the same way, shooting the same thing. There are tons of brawlers who are a complete waste of space.

[1453 R]

caravann, on 04 September 2021 - 07:57 AM, said:

The main reason why is because there are A LOT of sniper variety :

"AC2,UAC2,AC5,UAC5,UAC5,AC10,UAC10,AC20,UAC20,LBX2,LBX5,LBX10,LBX20,Light PPC,PPC,ER PPC, ER Large Laser, Large laser,Light Gauss, Gauss, Heavy Gauss"

And them all "just work" together in any combination you want.

You can not example combine LRM with SRM or make MRM work with either SRM or LRM at their optimal range

Ummmmmm....

Am I the only one asking questions, here?

[D V Devnull]

1453 R, on 04 September 2021 - 07:24 PM, said:

Ummmmmm....

Am I the only one asking questions, here?

You might be... That entire subset of those Weapons which you happened to underline have a bit of reach beyond Optimal Range on the battlefields. They also have a fair bit of Cockpit Shake happening, a bit of Visual Blinding occurring for all but the Heavy Gauss in that subset, and some definite Scare Factor involved for the entire subset as well. This unfortunately gives Ballistics the effect of having greater power on the battlefields even when someone would think that it does not, as that trio of effects usually messes with a person's mind and causes them to pull their Mech back into a nearby hiding spot.

~D. V. "Ballistics have far more impact within MWO than some people would unfairly have others believe." Devnull

[1453 R]

I'm not arguing that ballistics have impact. Given how fat and bulky they are, they'd better. I'm mostly just saying that maybe we want to reconsider whether we want to consider things like AC-Frickin'-Twenties or Heavy freaking Goose to be "sniper" weapon. Whether or not they can reach effectively beyond their nominal range, there's still some dilution of terminology happening there.

[FupDup]

I'm gonna go snipe people with my SRMs now.




...I actually saw somebody try that once.

[caravann]

The difference between direct and indirect is that many indirect are hard capped in range. They do not gain disadvantages for the range but sync with weapons who do not deal 100% damage is still the meta in the game. How many times isn't there an ac2 shooting beyond optimal range because it's hard to bleed that stone on how optimal your damage would or wouldn't be. In most cases those LBX deal damage over a large area at range but the closer you get to the target the higher the snipery your shots become until it is a single press delete-this button. It is sniper gun because you use an AC20 to accurately hit a single box.

[VeeOt Dragon]

yeah anything under say 500m optimal should not be used for sniping, its just a waste of ammo that could be used for closer in damage dealing. then again i am someone who rarely uses shorter range weapons (under 270 or so, i forget the stock range of the AC/20 and other similar range weapons) as anything other than secondaries or "back-up" weapons

Edit; typo put 370 instead of 270. i fixed it

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 05 September 2021 - 09:59 AM.

[LordNothing]

Kiran Yagami, on 04 September 2021 - 05:36 PM, said:

You can say that about literally every mech and build. It's QP. No one plays as a team. Sometimes you happen to be going the same way, shooting the same thing. There are tons of brawlers who are a complete waste of space.

well yea. ultimately this thread is complaining about potatoes that prefer to camp. there are other potatoes.

[VeeOt Dragon]

would still rather have an entire team of potatoes over even one single top 10%-er that wont stop bitching that people aren't using ultra "meta" builds or mechs. most them are also the same "if your not in a Brawl mech your doing it wrong" (well that or a stealth light) sorts of toxic folks that i want nothing to do with. potatoes at least try new things and just try to have fun for the most part. it can be frustrating and i can be vocal about stupid. (mostly it boils down to a "well if we weren't scattered to the winds we wouldn't have lost so bad" or "well thats what happens when no one shoots at the enemy" comment at the end of a match. hell some times just a "saw that coming". i used to try and shot call or attempt to herd the cats but no one listens. i guess it doesn't help that even though i am a large 36 year old man i sound like i am 12 over coms. (i don't know why it just seems that any sort of recording device pitches my voice up or takes any of the base out of it. don't get me started on the **** i used to get when i was in the U.S. Army and used coms. i don't have a deep voice in person but its not that high either, sort of average honestly.)) still its more fun when people are just enjoying the game instead of trying to force everyone into one tiny little box of a play style. yeah i would like folks to use some sense and actually use their mini map but it is what it is.

i guess i am stuck in one of those odd places where i want some team play and actual fun but i don't want the toxicity of FP, comp, or group drop. (not that those last two matter anymore since they merged everything, your stuck with them till we get a LOT more players)

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 05 September 2021 - 08:40 AM.

[pattonesque]

VeeOt Dragon, on 05 September 2021 - 08:32 AM, said:

would still rather have an entire team of potatoes over even one single top 10%-er that wont stop bitching that people aren't using ultra "meta" builds or mechs. most them are also the same "if your not in a Brawl mech your doing it wrong" (well that or a stealth light) sorts of toxic folks that i want nothing to do with.

sorry, you're saying people who are top 10% get annoyed if you're not playing a brawl mech or a stealth light?

[VeeOt Dragon]

most of the ones that claim to be and use coms seem to. if its not Brawl its some other boring meta nonsense (don't get me started on how most treat LRMs). i know there will always be meta in games but come on it isn't be all end all. hell if your that good challenge yourself and use oddball or stock Lore builds, then come back and brag about being good. i'm tired of the toxicity around meta this and meta that or high alpha brawl is the only way to go. screw meta and just have fun. (ok that sounded more angry than i meant it. i love MWO but sometimes the way the very vocal top tier treat people bothers me. it just seems the higher in Tier you get the less fun the game gets and i'm not the only one that has made that sentiment. you do have ones that say nothing or just shot call)

every once in a great while i run into someone who claims the top 10% or so that is actually constructive. might look at your build and instead of bitching will give you small tweaks to make it better but still be what you are going for. (i did have someone over in the Mech Builds section point something out i missed on my Centurion that let me improve it a bit and still be what i wanted (my Cent is a mid range fighter and i hadn't actually used it a quite some time). though i don't remember their Tier and don't feel like checking right now). but it seems rare.

actually your top players rarely seem to use coms at all.

as long as you try i don't care what you are running on what mech.

[pattonesque]

I'm just saying it's surprising that you think top players focus on brawling. if anything there's probably a slight bias toward mid-long range trading

[VeeOt Dragon]

honestly i think it could be because i play exclusively IS mechs. so the comments i get are on IS builds. i do seem to remember many times having a mid range or long range build and having people tell me i should be playing such and such on a clan mech instead. (I'm a bit of a Lore Hound and an FRR loyalist from my old TT days so my head cannon is the clan mechs i have are either stolen of battlefield salvage, almost all of them are from free mech events after all) i just like IS mechs better

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 05 September 2021 - 10:16 AM.