96 replies to this topic

[Seelenlos]

Bloodhound Active Probe

https://www.sarna.ne...nd_Active_Probe

The Bloodhound Active Probe was first introduced by ComStar in 3058. After the Clan Invasion they saw a need to improve their already formidable electronic warfare capabilities. Events in the latter half of the thirty-first century overtook them however, and the Bloodhound Active Probe didn't enter large scale production.^[1]
Using the Beagle Active Probe as a baseline, ComStar technicians created a probe that had a range of 240 meters^[2] and could penetrate advanced stealth systems. Testing proved conclusively that a Bloodhound-equipped 'Mech could spot units equipped with Null Signature Systems, Void Signature Systems, Stealth Armor, and ECM Suites.^[1] The Bloodhound can also detect battle armor equipped with ECM systems, Mimetic Armor, or any kind of Stealth Armor.^[1]



Stealth Armor

https://www.sarna.ne...i/Stealth_Armor

Developed in 3063 by the Capellan Confederation^[1], Stealth Armor is a modern day equivalent of the Star League era Null Signature System. Stealth Armor has been used on battle armor and combat vehicles as well.


WHY MUST I ACCEPT THAT I CAN NOT SEE A STEALTH ARMOR LIGHT, WHEN IT SHOULD HAVE NOT HAVE STEALTH ARMOR?

OR WHY DON'T HAVE I ACCESS TO Bloodhound Active Probe WHEN IT SHOULD BE THERE TO BUY?

Really I can accept that the Noobs aren't smart to carry, BUT IF I AM SMART WHY DON'T I HAVE ACCESS TO IT TO COUNTER LIGHTS AND SURVIVE?

Regards

[LordNothing]

wouldn't mind having both gecm and aecm as available options. would have solved the ecm balance issues early on if only the more expensive system could cast a large bubble. then we wouldn't have had to go 3 or 4 passes on the ecm balance. most people would have just run the gecm to cya and then if you were doing a team support build you could put in the bigger heavier aecm.

mwll had a significantly better electronic warfare system. i guess pgi kept the electronic warfare simple, though i never found the mwll way to be overly complex.

[1453 R]

What would the Bloodhound do?

Seriously - beyond allowing detection of stealth armor 'Mechs at very short range, what would the Bloodhound do? Nobody every uses active probes as it stands - how often would someone use an active probe that weighs more and takes up more space? Nobody values electronic warfare and sensory capabilities, beyond Missiles-B-Gone from ECM.

How would you make the Bloodhound worth using?

[pbiggz]

1453 R, on 28 August 2021 - 07:03 PM, said:

What would the Bloodhound do?

Seriously - beyond allowing detection of stealth armor 'Mechs at very short range, what would the Bloodhound do? Nobody every uses active probes as it stands - how often would someone use an active probe that weighs more and takes up more space? Nobody values electronic warfare and sensory capabilities, beyond Missiles-B-Gone from ECM.

How would you make the Bloodhound worth using?

As has been discussed recently, I am all for adding more electronics and non-weapon tech to enhance mechs or make it harder for people to kill you. That said, I think we're probably long overdue for a reevaluation of how Active Probe, ECM, Targetting Computers and Command Console actually work and its probably outside the realm of possibility for the Cauldron to do without an engineer to help them.

As it stands right now, Bloodhound basically has no place to fit in.

Edited by pbiggz, 28 August 2021 - 07:23 PM.

[1453 R]

I'm all for a reboot of how EW works in this game. But until and unless we get that reboot, the Bloodhound is just a fatter Beagle nobody would use, unless you're a dedicated Flea hunter. And if the entire function of your 'Mech is "make Stealth Fleas disappear", A.) I applaud your dedication and wish you luck in your hunts, and B.) you are way overspecializing and need to do better to help your team. Because as much as I detest Stealth Fleas, dedicating entire 'Mech builds to making them extinct is a negatory.

[Wid1046]

1453 R, on 28 August 2021 - 07:03 PM, said:

What would the Bloodhound do?

Seriously - beyond allowing detection of stealth armor 'Mechs at very short range, what would the Bloodhound do? Nobody every uses active probes as it stands - how often would someone use an active probe that weighs more and takes up more space? Nobody values electronic warfare and sensory capabilities, beyond Missiles-B-Gone from ECM.

How would you make the Bloodhound worth using?

It does take up an extra slot and weigh an extra half ton, but can cut through stealth armor and - much more importantly - has double the range. While it still won't be a must have, I can't see someone bothering with the Beagle if the Bloodhound were brought into the game.

They could always nerf the extra range though, there's no reason why PGI would have to go by tabletop rules.

[VeeOt Dragon]

i would like to see more reason to take support equipment other than ECM/AMS. honestly the only time i see anyone carry a TC or Beagle is when they are running LRM and that is usually only on Clan mechs as clan tech doesn't hamper your ability to still carry enough tubes and ammo to be effective.

[w0qj]

Realistically MWO is a BattleTech themed game, follows canon BattleTech closely but not exactly 100%... to be expected from most online games...

As for new equipment, let's think BIG:


MWO Timeline Expansion (the first one since the Civil War timeline expansion)

Omnimechs for Inner Sphere!
New Mech chassis such as Stone Rhino!
IS gets advanced ATM, Lasers

Clan gets advanced MRM, RAC, and PPC! New mech chassis!
Angel ECM! Bloodhound Active Probe!

Premium Combat pets (Elemental, Elemental IIC, Pollux tanks, helicopters, etc.)!

Brand new maps!

Deepened Faction Play experience!

Love to dream big

[The6thMessenger]

I just want LACs.

[Matthew Ace]

Wid1046, on 28 August 2021 - 07:35 PM, said:

It does take up an extra slot and weigh an extra half ton, but can cut through stealth armor and - much more importantly - has double the range. While it still won't be a must have, I can't see someone bothering with the Beagle if the Bloodhound were brought into the game.

They could always nerf the extra range though, there's no reason why PGI would have to go by tabletop rules.

In addition to cancelling Stealth armor, they could also add "penetrative detection" (able to detect enemy without LOS) for Bloodhound Active Probes. Think Seismic but able to detect stationary and you do not need to be stationary. Also give target heat level reading when you press "R" and get target info.

Also add a counter-move vs all Active Probes - getting hit by PPC disables all forms of active probe in addition to ECM for that period of time (depends on what kind of PPC you receive hit from).

Edited by Matthew Ace, 29 August 2021 - 12:44 AM.

[VeeOt Dragon]

w0qj, on 28 August 2021 - 10:10 PM, said:

Premium Combat pets (Elemental, Elemental IIC, Pollux tanks, helicopters, etc.)!

NO just No, the last thing MWO needs are pay to win mechanics of any kind. even pay for advantage. (Hero mechs don't count as most don't give much over the regular variants other than a C-bill bonus and perhaps unique hardpionts.)

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 29 August 2021 - 12:12 AM.

[Castigatus]

Seelenlos, on 28 August 2021 - 06:14 PM, said:

Bloodhound Active Probe

https://www.sarna.ne...nd_Active_Probe

The Bloodhound Active Probe was first introduced by ComStar in 3058. After the Clan Invasion they saw a need to improve their already formidable electronic warfare capabilities. Events in the latter half of the thirty-first century overtook them however, and the Bloodhound Active Probe didn't enter large scale production.^[1]
Using the Beagle Active Probe as a baseline, ComStar technicians created a probe that had a range of 240 meters^[2] and could penetrate advanced stealth systems. Testing proved conclusively that a Bloodhound-equipped 'Mech could spot units equipped with Null Signature Systems, Void Signature Systems, Stealth Armor, and ECM Suites.^[1] The Bloodhound can also detect battle armor equipped with ECM systems, Mimetic Armor, or any kind of Stealth Armor.^[1]



Stealth Armor

https://www.sarna.ne...i/Stealth_Armor

Developed in 3063 by the Capellan Confederation^[1], Stealth Armor is a modern day equivalent of the Star League era Null Signature System. Stealth Armor has been used on battle armor and combat vehicles as well.


WHY MUST I ACCEPT THAT I CAN NOT SEE A STEALTH ARMOR LIGHT, WHEN IT SHOULD HAVE NOT HAVE STEALTH ARMOR?

OR WHY DON'T HAVE I ACCESS TO Bloodhound Active Probe WHEN IT SHOULD BE THERE TO BUY?

Really I can accept that the Noobs aren't smart to carry, BUT IF I AM SMART WHY DON'T I HAVE ACCESS TO IT TO COUNTER LIGHTS AND SURVIVE?

Regards

Because IP lore does not dictate game features or equipment balancing, which is a good thing.

Also, I second everything people have already said about how useless it would be in the game's current state.

[FLG 01]

We should make existing electronic warfare equipment (other than ECM) worth it, before we introduce new stuff.


Regarding lore: 3058 was the date of the first working prototypes. Sarna - a fan project, not an canon source - unfortunately confuses prototypes and regular production model introduction dates rather frequently.

PGI goes with the date of regular production models, which in case of the Bloodhound is 3082.


(Interstellar Operations, p.40)
_

Edited by FLG 01, 29 August 2021 - 03:25 AM.

[Requiemking]

1453 R, on 28 August 2021 - 07:27 PM, said:

I'm all for a reboot of how EW works in this game. But until and unless we get that reboot, the Bloodhound is just a fatter Beagle nobody would use, unless you're a dedicated Flea hunter. And if the entire function of your 'Mech is "make Stealth Fleas disappear", A.) I applaud your dedication and wish you luck in your hunts, and B.) you are way overspecializing and need to do better to help your team. Because as much as I detest Stealth Fleas, dedicating entire 'Mech builds to making them extinct is a negatory.

It's not just EW that needs a reboot. The rewards system badly needs an overhaul, several modes need to either be reworked or removed entirely, and certain past initiatives, such as Rescale and Engine Desync, need to be redone.

[Spheroid]

Requiemking, on 29 August 2021 - 10:48 AM, said:

Engine Desync, need to be redone.

No it doesn't. Nothing about engine resync is desireable. If chassis agility is affected in any noticeable fashion many current viable loadouts that feature smaller engines will cease to be fielded. How is that a win?

If assaults or heavies are too sluggish their agility can be independently adjusted on a per chassis basis. There is zero need to drag engine rating into it.

[FupDup]

Spheroid, on 29 August 2021 - 01:03 PM, said:

No it doesn't. Nothing about engine resync is desireable. If chassis agility is affected in any noticeable fashion many current viable loadouts that feature smaller engines will cease to be fielded. How is that a win?

If assaults or heavies are too sluggish their agility can be independently adjusted on a per chassis basis. There is zero need to drag engine rating into it.

I think by "redone" he means setting better base values, because they're kind of all over the place right now.

If he does mean going back to the old system, then I agree that we should stay far away from that because of the obvious consequences it would create.

[Wildstreak]

Not sure if the Bloodhound could be added but I will say this.

One reason I had wanted to open discussion of differences between MW5 and MWO is ECM. From what I saw and heard from other players, MW5 ECM is not a stealth system, rather somehow modifies shooting abilities. Easy to code for affecting AI shooting yet I never found hard details on how it affects the player.

Quite interested to know what that is and if possible to port over to MWO somehow.

There have always been other options yet consistently never tried or even considered.

[Requiemking]

Spheroid, on 29 August 2021 - 01:03 PM, said:

No it doesn't. Nothing about engine resync is desireable. If chassis agility is affected in any noticeable fashion many current viable loadouts that feature smaller engines will cease to be fielded. How is that a win?

If assaults or heavies are too sluggish their agility can be independently adjusted on a per chassis basis. There is zero need to drag engine rating into it.

Oh, don't misunderstand me. It's not that I think that Heavies and Assaults need to be buffed, rather I personally think that it needs to be redone so that the agility of certain chassis isn't quite as all over the place as it is now. For example, last I checked the Night Gyr was as sluggish as a 100 tonner. Why is this the case? I don't know. Of course, having said that, it's possible that Cauldron has dealt with this issue already, in which case that complaint becomes a moot point.

FupDup, on 29 August 2021 - 01:19 PM, said:

I think by "redone" he means setting better base values, because they're kind of all over the place right now.

This is exactly what I was talking about.

Edited by Requiemking, 29 August 2021 - 03:09 PM.

[FupDup]

Requiemking, on 29 August 2021 - 03:08 PM, said:

Oh, don't misunderstand me. It's not that I think that Heavies and Assaults need to be buffed, rather I personally think that it needs to be redone so that the agility of certain chassis isn't quite as all over the place as it is now. For example, last I checked the Night Gyr was as sluggish as a 100 tonner. Why is this the case? I don't know. Of course, having said that, it's possible that Cauldron has dealt with this issue already, in which case that complaint becomes a moot point.

In that case, the Night Gyr is basically being treated like a 75-ton assault mech because it does pack that kind of firepower.

It did get its agility improved a lot in the mobility patch a while back so it's better than it used to be.

[1453 R]

Briefly on the engine desync tangent: having engines completely and utterly fail to affect your movement in the slightest has resulted in the opposite trend in MWO customization - most 'meta' folks use the smallest, tiniest, teeniest, most miniscule engine they can get away with cramming in their 'mech without being stupid, shaving as much engine weight as humanly possible in order to shove more gear into their machine. High groundspeed - i.e. the only thing larger engines are allowed to do - is almost entirely discarded in favor of MOAR gunz, MOAR ammo, MOAR heat sinks. Any 'Mech going much above sixty klicks an hour is considered a hopelessly over-engined waste of time; if you're moving over a hundred klicks an hour and you're not a twigweight light, you're seen as actively detrimental to the team.

It freaking sucks, I hate the hell out of it, and I would be fine with engine sync coming back in. Choosing to devote weight to one's engine should buy you meaningful amounts of mobility, and clearly it currently does not considering how many people are willing to shave their engines all the hell way down to below 200-rated just to get that last half-ton of autocannon reloads in.

Anyways. On the Bloodhound and EW: again, I'm all for a reboot on it, but we have to remember - this is Piranha Games. We might get one engineer assigned to this game for ten hours a week if the MWO Renaissance is still going strong this time next year. Anything that requires any sort of real edits to the actual game code, and not just XML fixes, is a no-go. Keep that in mind when suggesting things. Which, of course, also means the Bloodhound is an absolute negatory since there's not a chance in Hell Piranha would devote the resources required to implement new 'Mech tech in this game.