96 replies to this topic

[ScrapIron Prime]

Matthew Ace, on 29 August 2021 - 12:04 AM, said:

In addition to cancelling Stealth armor, they could also add "penetrative detection" (able to detect enemy without LOS) for Bloodhound Active Probes. Think Seismic but able to detect stationary and you do not need to be stationary. Also give target heat level reading when you press "R" and get target info.

Also add a counter-move vs all Active Probes - getting hit by PPC disables all forms of active probe in addition to ECM for that period of time (depends on what kind of PPC you receive hit from).

I’m very much NOT in favor of bypassing and exceeding both seismic skill nodes with a piece of equipment. If you’re going to make it a “super beagle” then you’ll either need to rework electronic warfare as suggested, or just have it give more of the advantages that a beagle gives… more sensor range, counts as two beagles for cancelling out multiple nearby ECM, even faster lock times, etc.

[Saved By The Bell]

After changing sizes of mechs (half year before), its hard to play lights. Before I could do 700-800 damage in non stealth commando (tier 2-3). Now - nope.

So stop crying.

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 29 August 2021 - 08:13 PM.

[FupDup]

ScrapIron Prime, on 29 August 2021 - 07:16 PM, said:

I’m very much NOT in favor of bypassing and exceeding both seismic skill nodes with a piece of equipment.

Paying tonnage and slots should offer better performance than imaginary skill points that take no weight or slots.

[VeeOt Dragon]

if a remember my Lore right even the regular Beagle active Probe allowed the detection of targets outside of LoS. not that MWO follows the Lore very well (wish they would a little bit more than they do especially with mech scale)

[Hauptmann Keg Steiner]

w0qj, on 28 August 2021 - 10:10 PM, said:

Omnimechs for Inner Sphere!

You'd either have to have an IS XL rework (not a terrible idea) or some very sad players (anyone who buys a Templar or Sunder). There's a bunch that either have standard engines or the geometry to make XLs work, but a lot of fan favorites are gonna suffer as the game is now.

Quote

New Mech chassis such as Stone Rhino!

You'd probably have some equally sad players, although this time it's the ones getting shot by 3-4 LB20Xs or 5-6 LB10Xs from a Stone Rhino-4.

[ScrapIron Prime]

FupDup, on 30 August 2021 - 02:40 AM, said:

Paying tonnage and slots should offer better performance than imaginary skill points that take no weight or slots.

Agreed. But unless they’re going to overhaul the whole skill tree system into something that better reflects both pilot skills and tech upgrades, we’re stuck with what we have.

[Seelenlos]

FupDup, on 30 August 2021 - 02:40 AM, said:

Paying tonnage and slots should offer better performance than imaginary skill points that take no weight or slots.

ANY OF YOU EVER SEEN THAT 2X TAG MECH IN YOU ***** MATCHES?
WELL IF SO AND YOU WON THOSE MATCHES, THEN KNOW IT WAS ME, THE PILOT YOU LAUGHGED FIRST WHY 2X TAG.

GUESS WHAT I HAVE ON MY ALL MECHS YOU N OOOOOOOO BS ! (only the ones who don't want BHAP)

AND GUESS WHY I CALL FOR MY BLOODHOUND!

...because not very of you are smart to help the team to carry one LESS weapon, which you could shoot and SELF-DESTRUCT yourself or Install that IMPORTANT thingy"S" to help the team <----- CORRECTION----> THE IDIOT B L I N D TEAM which is gut reaped by guess WHAT (S***** L**** M***) <---- if you know the answer you have STANDARD IQ, Else go to a mirror and ask for help!

Soooo (now calmed) ... I think the noobs would by all means try to avoid BH-AP. As of now - and I have seen that - a stealth Mech can only be seen by 2 BAP, so it seems they get the bonus of ECM and SA !

I leaved the place the moment PGI invented that, but from what I read it seems THAT should not be the way!

So implementing BHAP will only balance the game, without to much tinkering around with things you don't want =
Advantage of SA if you equip it <> Every 10-20 Matches you have the Disadvantage to collide with a smart pilot like me who can reveal and ruin your day.

So any advantage should have its risk or vise versa.

And here the calculation:
(1x Pulse = 6 D + 5 heat) - (beeing able to see the Mech in front of you or aside shredding your left/rihgt arm) + Alpha Strike from Panic when you recognize it = OVERHEAT-SHUTDOWN - Shred in the back by the same Light >> DEATH

I think any mathematician here can make a real logical mat equation, but even then you are blinded to see the necessity of BHAP, as you have your minds set in those ways I am not going to discuss!

For the ones who agreed in the upper posts, thanks, I can not see why it can not be implemented right now, as they also have an algorithm to defy the ECM. They only need to copy that code line and insert " IF BHAP THEN -SA. (no ELSE here) "

Regards

[1453 R]

Show me on the paperdoll where the light 'Mech touched you.

Seriously, duder. Chill. Stealth light 'Mechs are super annoying, yes, but none of them are honest threats. Their armaments are so minor that you're only in danger if you're already mostly crippled, or if you're piloting something stupid like an LRM Atlas. The only time stealth lights are a problem is when you get Conquest and the stealth light decides to go balls-out capping everything under the sun. When a sneeki-breeki light plays the objective, it can be rough, but in a straight up robit fight they're basically nonfactors.

I've said it before, I'll say it again - the dual-Goose stealth Thanatos that parks nine hundred meters away from the battlefield and spikes everyone basically invisibly for free is much scarier than the stealth Fleas or Peanut Butters that have to get up your *** to hurt you and shoot highly visible lasers to do it. The occasional stealth assault 'Mech that gets to somewhere weird before dropping stealth and then suddenly there's a Marauder II or a Fatnir or whatever in your pants - those are scary. Stealth lights are just nuisances.

Edited by 1453 R, 30 August 2021 - 02:36 PM.

[MechNexus]

Hey there's a super secret technique for countering stealth mechs
not many people know about this
you ready for it?
check it out
COMPIES HATE HER! Learn how she countered stealth mechs with this one weird trick

[pattonesque]

yeah so look man, people in this thread are telling you that stealth lights aren't that big of a deal. Just chill when you start getting lit up by one, find it, track it, and shoot it. don't freak out, the amount of damage it can do to you is extremely, extremely limited and it'll heat-cap itself quickly if it leaves stealth armor on

[Seelenlos]

1453 R, on 30 August 2021 - 02:35 PM, said:

Show me on the paperdoll where the light 'Mech touched you.

Seriously, duder. Chill. Stealth light 'Mechs are super annoying, yes, but none of them are honest threats. Their armaments are so minor that you're only in danger if you're already mostly crippled, or if you're piloting something stupid like an LRM Atlas. The only time stealth lights are a problem is when you get Conquest and the stealth light decides to go balls-out capping everything under the sun. When a sneeki-breeki light plays the objective, it can be rough, but in a straight up robit fight they're basically nonfactors.

I've said it before, I'll say it again - the dual-Goose stealth Thanatos that parks nine hundred meters away from the battlefield and spikes everyone basically invisibly for free is much scarier than the stealth Fleas or Peanut Butters that have to get up your *** to hurt you and shoot highly visible lasers to do it. The occasional stealth assault 'Mech that gets to somewhere weird before dropping stealth and then suddenly there's a Marauder II or a Fatnir or whatever in your pants - those are scary. Stealth lights are just nuisances.

HAVE YOU PLAYED MWO IN THE LAST 2 WEEKS!
Over 20 Matches were 2 Lights got from 8-10 to 12-10! Or 2-12 with one Flea!
So you are kidding, or a layer!!!
Or you are not playing the same game!

Like RL ( i wont go in the name) call the treat light and be surprised by its destruction!

So get serious!

[pattonesque]

Seelenlos, on 30 August 2021 - 03:05 PM, said:

HAVE YOU PLAYED MWO IN THE LAST 2 WEEKS!
Over 20 Matches were 2 Lights got from 8-10 to 12-10! Or 2-12 with one Flea!
So you are kidding, or a layer!!!
Or you are not playing the same game!

Like RL ( i wont go in the name) call the treat light and be surprised by its destruction!

So get serious!

stop

you need to trust that your experience, where you see ghosts every time someone puts stealth armor on a flea in the mechlab, is not in any way lining up with the experience of the overwhelming majority of people who play this game.

specifically, what is it about stealth lights that you're having trouble with? is it seeing them before they close? finding them when they engage you? hitting them? I am seriously willing to help you here if you will acknowledge that there are many things you are likely not doing that are giving you such issues with stealth lights.

[1453 R]

Seelenlos, on 30 August 2021 - 03:05 PM, said:

HAVE YOU PLAYED MWO IN THE LAST 2 WEEKS!
Over 20 Matches were 2 Lights got from 8-10 to 12-10! Or 2-12 with one Flea!
So you are kidding, or a layer!!!
Or you are not playing the same game!

Like RL ( i wont go in the name) call the treat light and be surprised by its destruction!

So get serious!

I have played MWO in the last two weeks, actually. I even went up a tier (though we'll see how long that lasts). Until then however, I was playing in Tier 5, where light 'mechs are arguably at their strongest due to the general inability of people in T5 to hit what they shoot at more than one time in five. Fleas are generally not an issue. The stealth Flea is almost always the last enemy 'Mech alive, and it's mostly just a matter of finding the blurdy thing long enough to pump a few shots into it and end it.

Those results are exactly why MWO is not nearly as stompy as people think it is. The kill counter only tells a small portion of the story. An 8-10 split where the last two 'Mechs in the 10 are relatively fresh, fully armed light 'Mechs and all four of the guys in the 8 are badly damaged heavies and assaults missing most of their weapons and very low on ammo is a game where the two light 'mechs have a serious advantage. A "lame 12-(4-0) stomp" can occur wherein everybody left on the winning team is on their last legs gasping for air and thanking the gods they survived, simply fortunate enough that the enemy couldn't quite finish them off.

I'm not kidding at all. Stealth Fleas or Peanut Butters are an irritant. Only when I'm very badly damaged do they typically bother me, because I don't tend to play the sorts of things those 'Mechs try to prey on. When they try their luck against me anyways I just shoot them and they run away, because their stealth armor prevents them from dissipating heat worth a spit so they can't push an engagement and they know it. The stupid dual-Goose stealth Thanatos that can shoot all gorram game without ever turning its stealth off, do so from nine hundred klicks out, and has a nearly invisible signature is way more terrifying than the twigweight lights that give away their position every time they fire. Those things give me hives whenever I figure out there's one in the game, they can absolutely make multiple kills before a team even realizes they exist. Stealth lights I just ignore until they make themselves a target, then I shoot them and they either die or they leave me alone.

I'm assuming 'layer' is short for player. Either that or you're giving me guff about my sex life for some reason.

There's only two PGI-developed BattleTech games, and only one of them has stealth armor in it. I'm reasonably sure I'm playing the same game you are. I just know that the solution to light 'Mech problems is shooting the light 'Mech. Even if you don't shoot it well, even if you only rake a few lasers across it, the fact that you've shot it at all tells that light 'mech that you know exactly where he is and you ain't having his bologna. He'll swiftly find somewhere else to be.

I have no idea whatsoever what the RL line means. Are you telling me stealth lights will destroy me if I don't freak out over them? I mean...they haven't yet. If they start, maybe I'll get more upset, but until then I'll just keep shooting them.

Again - being totally serious here. Stealth lights are not that big an issue. They're reliant on an extremely short-range energy armament, they're weaker than any similar combat light with no stealth, and while their stealth is on they can't dissipate heat. You can track their fire back to them without issue, and they generally have to be well within two hundred meters of you to deal any kind of damage whatsoever.

Would the Bloodhound potentially be neat? Sure. I'd be down to see an EW reboot. But we're not gonna get one, and in the interim your blood pressure will thank you if you can just calm down and Shoot The Bug™.

[Seelenlos]

pattonesque, on 30 August 2021 - 03:11 PM, said:

stop

I can assure you, in those matches I saw capabler players (and i am by no mean bad - me be 5 they be 8) seeing how they got cored in 2-3 shots in the back. I can do it with my light Clanner, but I saw föeas taking out entire teams.

I can not even hit them with my PL they standing nearly still, while the reap me apart.

You can not lock on them, TAG is nearly useless, and Beagle does not work, so no one can help you by missile.

So this is absolutely not ok.A BHAP will at least even thing. The moment the flea notice it is uncovered, he must make a new tactical decision, stay and help the team, surly die, or run and make stealth shoots.

By a simple implementing of Risk or Safty, you give the game another depth -> is it worth to go Meta with 10 Armor and 6 pulse lasers or should i take only 4 lasers and invest in armor. <<<<< this alone that they can relay on Pixel-Hitbox and Lag is now nullified as to survive you must invest TONS as another SMART GUY in this thread already wrote!

So no, I don't need play help, need technical implementation.

[pattonesque]

Seelenlos, on 30 August 2021 - 04:20 PM, said:

I can assure you, in those matches I saw capabler players (and i am by no mean bad - me be 5 they be 8) seeing how they got cored in 2-3 shots in the back. I can do it with my light Clanner, but I saw föeas taking out entire teams.

I can not even hit them with my PL they standing nearly still, while the reap me apart.

You can not lock on them, TAG is nearly useless, and Beagle does not work, so no one can help you by missile.

So this is absolutely not ok.A BHAP will at least even thing. The moment the flea notice it is uncovered, he must make a new tactical decision, stay and help the team, surly die, or run and make stealth shoots.

By a simple implementing of Risk or Safty, you give the game another depth -> is it worth to go Meta with 10 Armor and 6 pulse lasers or should i take only 4 lasers and invest in armor. <<<<< this alone that they can relay on Pixel-Hitbox and Lag is now nullified as to survive you must invest TONS as another SMART GUY in this thread already wrote!

So no, I don't need play help, need technical implementation.

Look, you keep insisting that your play is not the issue. But look at what you're telling me here. You're saying players more capable than you are are getting cored out in 2-3 alphas by stealth fleas in the back. Do you know how bad a player has to be to let a stealth flea with a 20-point non-PPFLD alpha to deliver 60 points of damage directly to their rear CT without being able to do anything about it? Then you're saying you can't hit them with your pulse laser while they're standing still. Anyone who's remotely capable does not have a significant problem doing this. I know because in the past six months I've died to a stealth Flea once.

I'm sorry to say, you do need play help. The things you're describing as insurmountable problems are all solved issues by the majority of the playerbase.

Also, right now, Flea pilots do have to make a choice. Like, check this out. This is more or less a meta non-stealth Flea:

https://mech.nav-alp...c14456db_FLE-17

And here's a more or less standard stealth Flea

https://mech.nav-alp...675d384e_FLE-20

The stealth Flea gets stealth. The non-stealth Flea gets a significantly higher alpha and average DPS higher than the stealth Flea's max DPS. That's to say nothing of the fact that the stealth Flea has to disengage stealth to cool off.

Like, look, I get this specific thing is frustrating. It sucks to get killed by a good light! But I guarantee you that better players have this figured out. Just try some of what we're suggesting.

[ScrapIron Prime]

And if you are the sort of player who gets cored out by piranhas and fleas often, some play style adjustments are helpful.

First… seismic sensors. It’s a bit of investment in the skill tree, but small pulse lasers and micro lasers ALWAYS get close enough to be a blip on your screen before they fire. This gives you enough warning to get a shot out on them or at the very least torso twist HARD to spoil their rear armor shot.

Second… battle buddy. Never fight alone. Pick another mech on the team, communicate s little and glue yourself to them as best you can. A lone mech is flea bait, two is a fight. And medium/light mechs earn bonus match score by escorting heavies or assaults in this manner through the Protected Medium bonus.

Thirdly… direct fire weapons. Every lurm boat should have secondary weapons, and your anti-light weapons should NOT be streak missiles. There’s enough ECM floating about these days that streaks are sometimes totally useless if there are TWO enemy lights close by.

[pbiggz]

Seelenlos, on 30 August 2021 - 04:20 PM, said:

So no, I don't need play help, need technical implementation.

If you're saying this, you pretty much proved you need to up your game. Introspection is the mark of a good player. You're demonstrating an unwillingness to engage in that.

Edited by pbiggz, 31 August 2021 - 07:48 AM.

[Seelenlos]

I am not argumenting with simple single minded people about play style.

It is like RL in our times about arguing on Afghanistan:

I say it was wrong to go in from start because there is no strategy!
You say we achieved a goal but lost we had to change our strategy!

HEH?

I say there is a counter vs Stealth named Bloodhound Beagle as in canon!
You say you should change your play style!

You see: we will never agree, because you want always to be the simple minded, not accepting smartness!

I end it here. If Dev or Coulderan group implement BHAP then some one can PM me.

Noobs!

Thanks to the rest !

[pattonesque]

Seelenlos, on 01 September 2021 - 11:57 AM, said:

I am not argumenting with simple single minded people about play style.

It is like RL in our times about arguing on Afghanistan:

I say it was wrong to go in from start because there is no strategy!
You say we achieved a goal but lost we had to change our strategy!

HEH?

I say there is a counter vs Stealth named Bloodhound Beagle as in canon!
You say you should change your play style!

You see: we will never agree, because you want always to be the simple minded, not accepting smartness!

I end it here. If Dev or Coulderan group implement BHAP then some one can PM me.

Noobs!

Thanks to the rest !

So look, I saw you in game a day or two ago and you were running a Cicada with two medium lasers, one MRM10, one LRM10, and two TAGs. Builds like this are a major reason why you are not performing well, particularly against stealth lights. Two ML/one MRM10 is not remotely enough direct firepower, one LRM10 is not nearly enough indirect firepower, and two TAGs is one TAG too many. This is a build which will lose a straight-up fight to every other competently built mech in the entire game with the sole exception, perhaps, of that one Spider which is just a cap-bot.

Is this the kind of mech that you're bringing to fights on a regular basis? It's no wonder why you keep getting killed by stealth mechs.

I do not own an X-5, but here are two suggestions from grimmechs which could help:

https://mech.nav-alp...7f05550d_CDA-X5

https://mech.nav-alp...38f48aa6_CDA-X5

The first is more of a skirmisher, the second more of a brawler. If you *absolutely must* bring LRMs on a medium, try this one:

https://mech.nav-alp...f0793a1d_TBT-7M

Edited by pattonesque, 01 September 2021 - 12:07 PM.

[Commoners]

He's losing coming out of the mechlab and is projecting blame for his incompetency on stealth lights. I've been seeing double tag mechs every now and then and I usually end up saying in voice chat "What the **** is that?" to the rest of the team. That should provide important context about how much of a nonanswer slamming tags on your mech instead of literally anything else is, and it also happens to be the reason why none of the good players are doing it.

You don't need to be able to lock something to be able to shoot it to death, and denying locks is the only thing that stealth gives a light.

If you're hitting it with a tag you could've been hitting it with any other weapon, including a ppc that would be knocking its stealth off and also disabling its ecm.

That all being said, information warfare is also pretty much useless in MWO.

Edited by Commoners, 01 September 2021 - 12:34 PM.