59 replies to this topic

[pbiggz]

Curccu, on 08 September 2021 - 08:21 AM, said:

just saying new map designs seems to favor long range builds more compared to their old versions.

ding ding ding we have a winner.

The new maps have room for long range builds that the old maps (outliers aside) didn't have at all. Its not that the new maps are pro-sniper, its that you can snipe on them. Combined with the great un-nerfing of most weapons (so that you can actually reliably do damage) we have a situation in which snipers are a viable strategy again, in a way they have not been in years.

They aren't overpowered, people just aren't used to seeing them and a small vocal group of people appears unwilling to accept that they a: exist, and b: require counterplay to defeat. They'd rather see them nerfed to the point of irrelevance again and that's simply not a defensible opinion.

[Angus McFife VI]

pattonesque, on 08 September 2021 - 07:39 AM, said:

that's the whole point! if you win the positioning/movement game as a sniper against a brawler you get to mess them up enough so that they lose if they get close. If you win the same game as a brawler against a sniper you get to blow them up easily while they're melting internally.

This is fiction. You're acting like sniping and poptarters are always alone on top of a large platform just waiting to be flanked. Wrong. Very wrong. They walk around in groups of 3-4, often with 1-2 clan assaults with forty gauss rifles and ppcs. The instant you get near them you wiLl get punished for showing even 1 ******* inch of your mech, with 35-50 pinpoint alphas to your precious side torsos. Unless you have your own ppc/gauss you LITERALLY cannot do anything about it except suicide charge, and good luck doing that because 90% of the time TEAM TIMID DULLY NOTES YOUR CONTRIBUTION

Edited by Dont LRM me please, 08 September 2021 - 08:35 AM.

[pattonesque]

Dont LRM me please, on 08 September 2021 - 08:29 AM, said:

This is fiction. You're acting like sniping and poptarters are always alone on top of a large platform just waiting to be flanked. Wrong. Very wrong. They walk around in groups of 3-4, often with 1-2 clan assaults with forty gauss rifles and ppcs. The instant you get near them you wiLl get punished for showing even 1 ******* inch of your mech, with 35-50 pinpoint alphas to your precious side torsos. Unless you have your own ppc/gauss you LITERALLY cannot do anything about it except suicide charge, and good luck doing that because 90% of the time TEAM TIMID DULLY NOTES YOUR CONTRIBUTION

"hey guys, I'm gonna push their snipers, if one or two of you come with me we can beat them up" works way more than you'd think. also stop yelling at me dude. also Atlases have armor quirks now so you can get a new sig lol

Edited by pattonesque, 08 September 2021 - 08:40 AM.

[Brom96]

Games have become more static and boring, with map features that impede movement of most mechs without JJs. As someone said here, it is the way Cauldron likes.

As for reaching the snipers, sure if you have cover provided, and support, which most times does not work. Also, the sniping in this form, with laser vomit, multiple PPCs, quadruple Gauss, simply nets enough points that nobody cares if they loose the match. In the end they are likely to end up with most points gained/kills done. Personally, I take a point of at least obstructing such enemy players, drawing the attention on me, so the team can try something. If you can haras them, even if you cannot kill them.

[MechNexus]

pattonesque, on 08 September 2021 - 08:40 AM, said:

"hey guys, I'm gonna push their snipers, if one or two of you come with me we can beat them up" works way more than you'd think. also stop yelling at me dude. also Atlases have armor quirks now so you can get a new sig lol

Also consider that brawling isn't the only way to deal with snipers - UAC10s have far superior DPS (burst and sustained) to light gauss for only a ton more each. You can hang at midrange and out-trade them, or at the very least distract them long enough for your team to move up.

If you want to beat snipers, Don't play on their terms. Don't give them easy angles. Don't give them free shots. Continually mix up where you peek from and where you emerge out of cover. Present your least damaged side to them if you're expecting to be shot as you make a move. Don't make it easy for them.

This is coming from someone who plays the PPC panther and other long range mechs a lot, by the way. Whether i'm in that, my adder, my 2gauss 2ERLL night gyr, or my 2ERPPC 1LGauss champion, the biggest problems for me are people who minimise their exposure to me by sticking to cover or avoiding where i'm watching, lighter mechs flanking and diving me, and midrange mechs who can out-DPS me. Try the things people have suggested, and you'll have much better results.

Edited by MechNexus, 08 September 2021 - 09:06 AM.

[Curccu]

pbiggz, on 08 September 2021 - 08:27 AM, said:

ding ding ding we have a winner.

The new maps have room for long range builds that the old maps (outliers aside) didn't have at all. Its not that the new maps are pro-sniper, its that you can snipe on them. Combined with the great un-nerfing of most weapons (so that you can actually reliably do damage) we have a situation in which snipers are a viable strategy again, in a way they have not been in years.

They aren't overpowered, people just aren't used to seeing them and a small vocal group of people appears unwilling to accept that they a: exist, and b: require counterplay to defeat. They'd rather see them nerfed to the point of irrelevance again and that's simply not a defensible opinion.

What do you mean snipers (gauss erppc erll?) haven't been viable?

[Damnedtroll]

Modified a bunch of my srm build... trying new stuff a lot and made myself an easy target this month because of that. Lots of laser vomiting builds and snipers these days, diversity of builds got messed up.

[pattonesque]

Damnedtroll, on 08 September 2021 - 09:56 AM, said:

Modified a bunch of my srm build... trying new stuff a lot and made myself an easy target this month because of that. Lots of laser vomiting builds and snipers these days, diversity of builds got messed up.

ok, what typically are you doing that's causing this to happen to you? I can give you some tips to mitigate it because I brawl all the time and it does not usually happen to me.

[Damnedtroll]

pattonesque, on 08 September 2021 - 10:25 AM, said:

ok, what typically are you doing that's causing this to happen to you? I can give you some tips to mitigate it because I brawl all the time and it does not usually happen to me.

Dropping solo and finding myself in camping teams ? I'm more highly aggressive and mobile .. and i'm pretty bad at sniping, never achieved something reliable with ppc.

Testing new builds is always a mess .

Edited by Damnedtroll, 08 September 2021 - 10:57 AM.

[pattonesque]

What kind of builds are you using that you're having trouble with?

[justcallme A S H]

Dont LRM me please, on 08 September 2021 - 08:29 AM, said:

This is fiction. You're acting like sniping and poptarters are always alone on top of a large platform just waiting to be flanked. Wrong. Very wrong. They walk around in groups of 3-4, often with 1-2 clan assaults with forty gauss rifles and ppcs. The instant you get near them you wiLl get punished for showing even 1 ******* inch of your mech, with 35-50 pinpoint alphas to your precious side torsos. Unless you have your own ppc/gauss you LITERALLY cannot do anything about it except suicide charge, and good luck doing that because 90% of the time TEAM TIMID DULLY NOTES YOUR CONTRIBUTION

I think to help validate these claims which seem overly sensationalist... You should record and upload 10 games in a row.

I suspect that what you are saying won't eventuate in said videos.
Or
We'll see gaping issues in your gameplay which isn't an issue with snipers.

[Angus McFife VI]

pattonesque, on 08 September 2021 - 11:05 AM, said:

What kind of builds are you using that you're having trouble with?

Dual hgauss and medium pulse annihilator. 3 ac2 + 3 rac2 annihilator. MRM60 + AC20 and/or UAC20 Atlas with or without ECM.

Now that I've regained my sanity , I'm willing to buy a very good player some MC or prem time they can watch me play and tell me what I'm doing wrong. PM me if you're interested.

Edited by Dont LRM me please, 08 September 2021 - 01:55 PM.

[Bamboozle Gold]

Just upload it on YouTube, link it here and it'll be a learning experience for everyone.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Seriously, if there are a few snipers on the other team and your team stands around or otherwise does not deal with them, then yes you're going to get sniped. A lot.

My usual tactic on that map when I play something with some mobility is to hunt snipers. get up on the wall and pressure them. And if I don't have mobility, then I better have range. And that goes for any map, really.

[Angus McFife VI]

justcallme A S H, on 08 September 2021 - 11:36 AM, said:

I think to help validate these claims which seem overly sensationalist... You should record and upload 10 games in a row.

I suspect that what you are saying won't eventuate in said videos.
Or
We'll see gaping issues in your gameplay which isn't an issue with snipers.

Ok. Maybe you're right. I'll get some footage soon. Give me like 6 hrs.

Edited by Dont LRM me please, 08 September 2021 - 02:08 PM.

[VeeOt Dragon]

highly mobile or quick mechs do well against snipers (at least they do against me at times). also try to vary your speed. if you don't move at a constant speed its easy for a sniper to miss you (at least with anything other than lasers). slower mechs make easier targets so big slow assaults might feel the sting of longe range fire more than smaller faster mechs. as with all things positioning is key as in all things.

on a side note the new focus of hate on Sniper builds makes me smile because it takes some of the constant forum hate off of LRM for a while. oh it will be back, there always seems to be room for LRM hate.

i don't mind snipers even when on the receiving end. its just nice to see new builds and tactics on the field other than the endless nascar brawl.

(you could always just annoy the **** out of them with my 3 LPPC, 3 MG Annoyance Urbie. just rin from cover to cover popping shots, even if they miss you are keeping their heads down. also when you chain fire it often makes then think you are shooting something nastier than LPPC)

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 08 September 2021 - 02:59 PM.

[Angus McFife VI]

I will upload videod tomorrow. They are taking longer than I expected.

[Hiten Bongz]

Boating cERLL is way, way too easy now, and a lot of the maps favor range. Especially the new HPG. So many wall campers...it gets old fast.

It's kind of disgusting how often I'm seeing clan mechs boat anywhere from 4-8 cERLL these days, and a big reason is because you can quite easily shoot 3+ at a time now. The buffs to cERLL in particular were a bit too much, I don't understand why they needed even more range than they did before, and less heat to boot. Almost every comp match and quite a few QP matches have cERLL boats in them, and a noticeable majority of all matches now boils down to "which team has more ranged firepower and advanced zoom."

I'm not saying you can't brawl at all anymore but it's definitely taken a backseat to ranged snipey play, this much is obvious, and taking a brawly mech that isn't a light or fast medium puts you at a huge disadvantage most of the time against boated ranged weapons. Some of it is map design, some of it is heavy handed buffs to cERLL and the like. Both of these elements have lead us into the new ranged meta. Which is boring, IMO.

Edited by Hiten Bongz, 08 September 2021 - 11:07 PM.

[Elizander]

pbiggz, on 08 September 2021 - 07:12 AM, said:

I'm really really really not trying to be snarky here, but this is exactly how you don't brawl. Brawling is 90% positioning. If you're sitting in the back field because you're too scared to make your way to the enemy you're doing it wrong

So 80% of my team hangs back and there are 2 lights near the enemy. You're saying I, by myself, make my way there in a 62 kph mech and roll the dice in a pug game where I have absolutely no backup, no support and a big chance of running into a 1v3? No thanks. That's not how my games go. My Scorch can only alpha thrice before reverting to LBX spam and that's not enough if I get caught out.

I'll take my guaranteed 500-700 damage in the second half of the game instead of blowing up with 200 at the start because of gambling and utterly uncoordinated pug teams.

Edited by Elizander, 09 September 2021 - 12:15 AM.

[pbiggz]

Elizander, on 09 September 2021 - 12:13 AM, said:

So 80% of my team hangs back and there are 2 lights near the enemy. You're saying I, by myself, make my way there in a 62 kph mech and roll the dice in a pug game where I have absolutely no backup, no support and a big chance of running into a 1v3? No thanks. That's not how my games go. My Scorch can only alpha thrice before reverting to LBX spam and that's not enough if I get caught out.

I'll take my guaranteed 500-700 damage in the second half of the game instead of blowing up with 200 at the start because of gambling and utterly uncoordinated pug teams.

If you refuse to cooperate with your team that is entirely your own fault. If your team dithers off and dies that's their own fault.

In both cases, this has nothing to do with snipers being overrepresented. A bad team will get picked off by a roomba with a kitchen knife taped to the top.