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Too Many Snipers


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#41 ScrapIron Prime

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Posted 09 September 2021 - 05:17 AM

View Postpbiggz, on 09 September 2021 - 04:48 AM, said:

A bad team will get picked off by a roomba with a kitchen knife taped to the top.


I totally want to see that now. Posted Image

#42 Scout Derek

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Posted 09 September 2021 - 07:09 AM

View PostDont LRM me please, on 08 September 2021 - 12:42 AM, said:

Every game it's the same story. Either a night gyr, mad cat II or direwolf is on top of HPG or really far away on any other map, does his 40-50 pinpoint alpha and no one except other ppc/gauss builds can retaliate. I don't want to hear "just take cover" yeah you take cover and they slowly surround you and your team from all angles and snipe them to death. Or you hide forever while the entire team dies one by one. You got poptarters, you got peek and 40 point pintpoint alpha, I just can't take it anymore it's not fun anymore it's infuriating it's frustrating and it's the same **** every night. I've never been in such a hot streak of losing than I have in the last week with all these night gyrs, timberwolf and mad cat II's poptarting every ways, up down and sideways. Every game I play in it's just another loss another loss another loss nonstop never ceasing. Unless you hide behind a massive rock or in the deepest recess of a pit, you lose a side torso in 2 volleys from anyone 700 meters away. It's time for this **** to stop, honestly WHO IS HAVING FUN? Who enjoys this?

I do, but that's likely because I know what to do 99.99% of the time, just becomes clockwork at that point.

#43 Rkshz

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Posted 09 September 2021 - 08:12 AM

View PostDont LRM me please, on 08 September 2021 - 12:42 AM, said:

Every game it's the same story. Either a night gyr, mad cat II or direwolf is on top of HPG or really far away on any other map, does his 40-50 pinpoint alpha and no one except other ppc/gauss builds can retaliate. I don't want to hear "just take cover" yeah you take cover and they slowly surround you and your team from all angles and snipe them to death. Or you hide forever while the entire team dies one by one. You got poptarters, you got peek and 40 point pintpoint alpha, I just can't take it anymore it's not fun anymore it's infuriating it's frustrating and it's the same **** every night. I've never been in such a hot streak of losing than I have in the last week with all these night gyrs, timberwolf and mad cat II's poptarting every ways, up down and sideways. Every game I play in it's just another loss another loss another loss nonstop never ceasing. Unless you hide behind a massive rock or in the deepest recess of a pit, you lose a side torso in 2 volleys from anyone 700 meters away. It's time for this **** to stop, honestly WHO IS HAVING FUN? Who enjoys this?

I understand your pain dude, I can only advise you two things:
1. Take a break, play something relaxing, or read a book, do yoga, meditate.
2. Take a counter sniper, for example a piranha, and run and kill snipers in the back with one alpha, it's easy.

but snipers are part of this game, they always were and always will be

#44 Angus McFife VI

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Posted 10 September 2021 - 07:08 AM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 08 September 2021 - 11:36 AM, said:

I think to help validate these claims which seem overly sensationalist... You should record and upload 10 games in a row.

I suspect that what you are saying won't eventuate in said videos.
Or
We'll see gaping issues in your gameplay which isn't an issue with snipers.

View PostBamboozle Gold, on 08 September 2021 - 02:01 PM, said:

Just upload it on YouTube, link it here and it'll be a learning experience for everyone.


https://youtu.be/WFq0v6FyhO0

Ok I want all the prodigies super high k/d and winrate people to harshly judge my gameplay. I tried to compile some of my worst games in there but there are some good games there (because we were fighting lrm boats and it was easy pickings). Either way when I recorded these, there actually wasn't much snipers but I believe on 2 of the matches the snipers ruined me.
Thanks for taking the time to review my (probably horrible) gameplay.

Edited by Dont LRM me please, 10 September 2021 - 07:09 AM.


#45 pbiggz

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Posted 10 September 2021 - 07:34 AM

View PostDont LRM me please, on 10 September 2021 - 07:08 AM, said:


https://youtu.be/WFq0v6FyhO0

Ok I want all the prodigies super high k/d and winrate people to harshly judge my gameplay. I tried to compile some of my worst games in there but there are some good games there (because we were fighting lrm boats and it was easy pickings). Either way when I recorded these, there actually wasn't much snipers but I believe on 2 of the matches the snipers ruined me.
Thanks for taking the time to review my (probably horrible) gameplay.


Just watching your first match now. It actually looks like you did pretty well, the only misplays were you rounding the central feature and walking up the far side when you knew there were snipers on the rocks that could hit your back. They weren't good snipers though, cause it seems like they barely grazed you. The other misplay was when you started to brawl the enemy team and ended up giving facetime to about 2 thirds of the enemy team.

#46 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 10 September 2021 - 07:46 AM

View PostMechNexus, on 08 September 2021 - 09:01 AM, said:


Also consider that brawling isn't the only way to deal with snipers - UAC10s have far superior DPS (burst and sustained) to light gauss for only a ton more each. You can hang at midrange and out-trade them, or at the very least distract them long enough for your team to move up.

If you want to beat snipers, Don't play on their terms. Don't give them easy angles. Don't give them free shots. Continually mix up where you peek from and where you emerge out of cover. Present your least damaged side to them if you're expecting to be shot as you make a move. Don't make it easy for them.


Even standard run of the mill Clan laser vomit easily outtrades snipers, you just have to find a way to close to 500-600m.

The second paragraph is really the crux of it. Don't make it easy for them.

#47 R Valentine

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Posted 10 September 2021 - 08:23 AM

View PostDont LRM me please, on 08 September 2021 - 12:42 AM, said:

Every game it's the same story. Either a night gyr, mad cat II or direwolf is on top of HPG or really far away on any other map, does his 40-50 pinpoint alpha and no one except other ppc/gauss builds can retaliate. I don't want to hear "just take cover" yeah you take cover and they slowly surround you and your team from all angles and snipe them to death. Or you hide forever while the entire team dies one by one. You got poptarters, you got peek and 40 point pintpoint alpha, I just can't take it anymore it's not fun anymore it's infuriating it's frustrating and it's the same **** every night. I've never been in such a hot streak of losing than I have in the last week with all these night gyrs, timberwolf and mad cat II's poptarting every ways, up down and sideways. Every game I play in it's just another loss another loss another loss nonstop never ceasing. Unless you hide behind a massive rock or in the deepest recess of a pit, you lose a side torso in 2 volleys from anyone 700 meters away. It's time for this **** to stop, honestly WHO IS HAVING FUN? Who enjoys this?


So stop being so predictable and rotating in a constant left handed circle. Snipers take up positions to cover your nascar lanes, because you ALWAYS go there, no matter the circumstance. So don't do it. Play differently. Take different routes. Find different cover. Choose different options. You can beat them, but it means utilizing more than just a small fraction of the map.

#48 justcallme A S H

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Posted 10 September 2021 - 06:14 PM

View PostDont LRM me please, on 10 September 2021 - 07:08 AM, said:


https://youtu.be/WFq0v6FyhO0

Ok I want all the prodigies super high k/d and winrate people to harshly judge my gameplay. I tried to compile some of my worst games in there but there are some good games there (because we were fighting lrm boats and it was easy pickings). Either way when I recorded these, there actually wasn't much snipers but I believe on 2 of the matches the snipers ruined me.
Thanks for taking the time to review my (probably horrible) gameplay.



Game 1 - You rotated into a a midrange player or two in early stage when there was no need and had to turn back. Probably should have hugged the right ridge more in the main section of battle. Would have avoided 2-3 mechs peaking you at once.

Game 2 - Similar story. You rotated ahead of your team again, into the worst spot on that map and ate free damage. Then chasing the GHP put you into the next worst place. If you stayed the high ground C3-ish around the middle at least, you would have had more options. Don't have to YOLO over the centre, but you have 400m of useable range so try use it.

Game 3 - NARC is rough but your approach was in the clear open ground costing you 25% armour. Could have walked up a bit closer to the middle and found cover easier/faster. Otherwise straightforward game. You got greedy diving the GHP, probably should have just blapped him 1-2 times and then found cover, Centurion would not have taken you out then.

Game 4 - High ground is tough for Brawl++ Atlas. Use the deep trenches more it is what suits Atlas better than high ground where poptarts are just gonna vertical slam you over the shorter rocks on high ground. You again got ahead/away from the team like previous games.

Game 5 - You took the higher ground vs G2, but, you were in nomans land. Take points from G2 and apply to this you would have gone far better.

Game 6 - Similar to others with the over rotation. Worked out in the end that time.

Game 7 - This game you actually did the high ground/mid and worked out nicely. You are ridiculously lucky you did not have your rear completely chewed out, just gotta use the little spire and dont walk up completely into the middle, that'll cover your back. The B-ASP should have sent you to mech-heaven.

Game 8 - No need to move right, you did, snipers were waiting. You started using the middle cover areas, just need to do that more/practice. Your team did let themselves get enveloped on from 270degrees, so just one of those games.

Game 9 - You saw red cookies and went for them. You know why you ballsed up there so thats good. Just needed patience.

Game 10 - Bow3r my man haha... Next time walk more to the right in the lower ground and THEM come up. It will stop a lot of the angle/access enemies will have on you. Coming outta basement, just needed more patience and wait/work out where everyone is first. You again got surprised by a Centurion. Also when in the midground you ended up in a 3-angle sandwich again. Just find a wall and hug when moving across cover. Much less chance you get seen and take damage.


So a few things...
  • Minimap - watch it more. Have patience, pick your 'time to go' better.
  • Don't out-rotate your team.
  • Snipers are waiting for the rotation. You are super predictable and with #3 just leaving yourself open.
  • You torso twist and do all that jazz so that's good.

Good on you for putting up the video. It definitely reaffirms what I've been saying about how many snipers are actually in matches - it 1-3 most games max.

#49 Angus McFife VI

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Posted 10 September 2021 - 08:29 PM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 10 September 2021 - 06:14 PM, said:

Game 1 - You rotated into a a midrange player or two in early stage when there was no need and had to turn back. Probably should have hugged the right ridge more in the main section of battle. Would have avoided 2-3 mechs peaking you at once.


What does rotate mean, to move forward? What was I supposed to do, just go left instead and stand still with the team until something interesting popped up? Not being sarcastic. I understand the rest of your critique.

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 10 September 2021 - 06:14 PM, said:

Game 2 [color=#959595]- Similar story. You rotated ahead of your team again, into the worst spot on that map and ate free damage. Then chasing the GHP put you into the next worst place. If you stayed the high ground C3-ish around the middle at least, you would have had more options. Don't have to YOLO over the centre, but you have 400m of useable range so try use it. [/color]


Do you mean the high-ground near the radar dish or the high ground away from the dish, just before the canyon lower path? I feel like if I went near the dish I would have been laser vomit peaked/ppc'd to death.

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 10 September 2021 - 06:14 PM, said:

Game 3[/b - NARC is rough but your approach was in the clear open ground costing you 25% armour. Could have walked up a bit closer to the middle and found cover easier/faster. Otherwise straightforward game. You got greedy diving the GHP, probably should have just blapped him 1-2 times and then found cover, Centurion would not have taken you out then.


Fair enough, I was out in the open. Where should I have gone instead, the middle, around C5ish to D4ish? Also I rushed the grasshopper because I saw my team moving up to the left so I didn't want to leave them hanging. But they went all the way left and didn't bother looking to the side I went up.

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 10 September 2021 - 06:14 PM, said:

Game 4 - High ground is tough for Brawl++ Atlas. Use the deep trenches more it is what suits Atlas better than high ground where poptarts are just gonna vertical slam you over the shorter rocks on high ground. You again got ahead/away from the team like previous games.


I don't understand, because in game 2 the high ground was the advantage you said, but now you're saying it's a disadvantage. Then on game 5 at least to me it feels like you're implying it's an advantage to stay on the high ground.

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 10 September 2021 - 06:14 PM, said:

Game 5 - You took the higher ground vs G2, but, you were in nomans land. Take points from G2 and apply to this you would have gone far better.


I feel like if I had stayed on C3 high ground I would've been sniped to death from my left and my right.

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 10 September 2021 - 06:14 PM, said:

Game 6 - Similar to others with the over rotation. Worked out in the end that time.


At which moment did I over rotate?

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 10 September 2021 - 06:14 PM, said:

Game 7 - This game you actually did the high ground/mid and worked out nicely. You are ridiculously lucky you did not have your rear completely chewed out, just gotta use the little spire and dont walk up completely into the middle, that'll cover your back. The B-ASP should have sent you to mech-heaven.


Ok so you're definitely talking about the radar dish area. At what timestamp did I expose myself to being rear-armor cored?

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 10 September 2021 - 06:14 PM, said:

Game 8 - No need to move right, you did, snipers were waiting. You started using the middle cover areas, just need to do that more/practice. Your team did let themselves get enveloped on from 270degrees, so just one of those games.


So at 39:02 was the moment I ****** up and moved right unnecessarily right? I noticed the strategy here is very similar to the one in Hibernal Rift. Unless I'm wrong...?

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 10 September 2021 - 06:14 PM, said:

Game 9 - You saw red cookies and went for them. You know why you ballsed up there so thats good. Just needed patience.


Why did I need patience? I killed a lot of people and did a load of damage, and broke through for my team who cleaned up.... At least from my perspective. Or maybe I went full throttle too hard on that executioner in the end?

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 10 September 2021 - 06:14 PM, said:

Bow3r my man haha... Next time walk more to the right in the lower ground and THEM come up. It will stop a lot of the angle/access enemies will have on you.


I understand this completely... I don't know why it didn't occur to me but that's common sense. If I went up the further right-side ramps I would've been ok.

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 10 September 2021 - 06:14 PM, said:

Coming outta basement, just needed more patience and wait/work out where everyone is first.[/font][/color]


What does this mean in practical application in that moment I fell down and saw my team there too?

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 10 September 2021 - 06:14 PM, said:

Also when in the midground you ended up in a 3-angle sandwich again. Just find a wall and hug when moving across cover. Much less chance you get seen and take damage


Midground where? If it isn't too much trouble, can you provide a timestamp?

[b]MISC and Extra Questions:


Should I peek with my Atlas like I do sometimes in the video? Sometimes I feel like I'm slow and just tanking damage, but at the same time it feel useless to just do nothing. Of course if only 1 mech is there or I have a majority behind me I'll peek and push but when it's about even I feel like I take more damage than I dish out, and idk what to do. Sometimes I just guard a position slightly further up so I can punish peekers.

Also when you say snipers are waiting for the rotation does that mean they're waiting for people to move up? If that's the case, what am I supposed to do, not move at all? Just hang around in the deathball until something happens? Not being sarcastic, I just I don't see any other option.

Also you say don't out rotate your team, but sometimes they just do nothing and I get bored or frustrated. Or I can tell they're dying and they need to do something else.

Is high ground or low ground bad for an Atlas with my loadout?

Also I want to thank you so much for providing your insight. I'm already going to incorporate the HPG-walk-further-low-right-for-cover maneuver along with clinging to walls around mid on both Hibernal and HPG. Is there any other map where this is the strat? Also what do you think is a general strat for me on Mining Collective? Oftentimes there if we don't take mid where I can be a guard bully on mid, I'm just ******* lost at that point, I'll wander around and most likely die being sniped.

Edited by Dont LRM me please, 10 September 2021 - 08:36 PM.


#50 Bamboozle Gold

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Posted 10 September 2021 - 11:37 PM

Thank you for posting your video Dont LRM, takes real courage to have other people look you play! I really appreciate this. I will watch it in full so I can learn as well.

Getting bored / anxious for something to happen is an insidious killer in brawling. Makes you push when you shouldn't because you feel like you should do /something/. Like ASH said you have 400 metres range. You can peek when you have a fairly good idea that you'll get a favourable trade. But if you're peeking into an area where you haven't got any friendlies then you don't know if there are looking range snipers covering that.

For example at 1:50 your entire team is on your left. You look up the steps in E6 and get a blue laser from a light in D6. If that blue laser had been dual gauss you would have a very bad start to your match already. You then rejoin your team and have a good brawl. It's a bit awkward since your UAC20 is on your right and you keep twisting that way to pull back into cover. This happens because the enemy team rotated around the central feature, and it's on your right / their left. Your lance also had an Assault that ran from D6 - D5 - E5. I'm not sure if it would have been right move to follow him (NASCAR) or to find a better position in the low ground.

Again, thanks for posting the video, it's an interesting conversation!

#51 Dogstar

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Posted 10 September 2021 - 11:58 PM

View PostScrapIron Prime, on 09 September 2021 - 05:17 AM, said:

I totally want to see that now. Posted Image


A roomba is basically an urbanmech, right?

#52 Bamboozle Gold

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Posted 11 September 2021 - 01:22 AM

View PostDont LRM me please, on 10 September 2021 - 08:29 PM, said:

Game 4
I don't understand, because in game 2 the high ground was the advantage you said, but now you're saying it's a disadvantage. Then on game 5 at least to me it feels like you're implying it's an advantage to stay on the high ground.

If I understood ASH's comment right here the bad high ground is trying to peek across the valley in polar when you don't have range to make effective trades across the distance. Here you would need wait for them to push and counter rotate. Getting away from your team has consequences at around 20:30 when you get pushed by an Annihilator. This Anni is what effectively kills you, not their snipers. Your damage is very bursty so you could out trade that Anni but you would need to make sure you have better cover to peek from.

By this point you're in effectively a straight corridor with one ally behind you and another to your left. You cannot retreat the way you came from because you would get shot by their entire team so you eat up the RACs from the Anni while you're backing to the ally behind you. Then you peek that same Anni later but he's watching the corridor and with no other friendlies pushing at that moment you get chunked. An arti might have forced him to retreat so you can blap him and retreat back but I think the mistake was crossing that corridor initially.

#53 ScrapIron Prime

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Posted 11 September 2021 - 03:39 AM

View PostDogstar, on 10 September 2021 - 11:58 PM, said:


A roomba is basically an urbanmech, right?

With a Solaris chainsaw bolt-on. Posted Image

#54 PocketYoda

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Posted 12 September 2021 - 10:21 PM

Clan weapons are far far too long.. they need to make the weapons even.

#55 pbiggz

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Posted 13 September 2021 - 06:06 AM

View PostMechaGnome, on 12 September 2021 - 10:21 PM, said:

Clan weapons are far far too long.. they need to make the weapons even.


Without fail, any time Clan weapons have an advantage due to range, they have a drawback that comes in the form of heat, or damage. You cant boil this game down to everyone having pool noodles of exactly the same length and width to batter each other with.

#56 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 16 September 2021 - 08:47 AM

As per your comments in game, OP, sniping isn't useful.

So it isn't useful, or it's so oppressive that you can't figure out a way to combat it? It can't be both, please explain.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 16 September 2021 - 08:48 AM.


#57 Shaitan Kerensky

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Posted 16 September 2021 - 03:32 PM

Personally love playing the new HPG Map with my 8 srm6 arctic wolf. The center always turns into a brawl and the winner of the brawl is almost always the games eventual winner. There is plenty of cover as long as you don't try to nascar

#58 Novakaine

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Posted 16 September 2021 - 03:44 PM

The truly dumb part is trying to get some of those 12 mechs to deal with the snipers.
I've seen mechs do everything else but, and then complain about the snipers.
All it takes is a few mechs to stop it.

Edited by Novakaine, 16 September 2021 - 03:45 PM.


#59 Aidan Crenshaw

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Posted 16 September 2021 - 09:35 PM

View PostNovakaine, on 16 September 2021 - 03:44 PM, said:

The truly dumb part is trying to get some of those 12 mechs to deal with the snipers.
I've seen mechs do everything else but, and then complain about the snipers.
All it takes is a few mechs to stop it.

You mean like, putting oneself in harm's way, taking the initiative? Posted Image

#60 MW Waldorf Statler

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Posted 17 September 2021 - 02:00 AM

To many Brawlers...to many Snipers ...to many LRM Boats...to many lights ...to many Assaults =Solution =plays MW5 without each human Enemy





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