282 replies to this topic

[Angus McFife VI]

BLOODREDSIN, on 18 September 2021 - 02:56 PM, said:

Give it up dude, no one has any legitimate lore as of yet proving lights are also intended to take on mechs heavier than themselves solo and dominate. Also your sad attempts to "get at me" will not work. Spare yourself from looking any more foolish. There was nothing innocuous about this thread or the way you are behaving in it.

Are you usually losing to light mechs 1v1? Unless you're an Atlas in a tight room it shouldn't be a problem.... You know 1 or 2 shots from an AC/20 pretty much ruins them, right? A good srm blast... Half a laser burn from a laser vomit... Any gauss rifle?

https://youtu.be/gmX6sTNu2Wo

https://youtu.be/gmX6sTNu2Wo

Edited by Dont LRM me please, 18 September 2021 - 03:21 PM.

[pattonesque]

BLOODREDSIN, on 18 September 2021 - 02:56 PM, said:

Give it up dude, no one has any legitimate lore as of yet proving lights are also intended to take on mechs heavier than themselves solo and dominate. Also your sad attempts to "get at me" will not work. Spare yourself from looking any more foolish. There was nothing innocuous about this thread or the way you are behaving in it.

You know what’s interesting, is that if you have a properly built medium, heavy, or assault mech and you’re using it properly, you will very easily be able to take on any light mech that steps to you one on one, outside of LRM boats who trade that for the ability to indirectly fire

You don’t seem to have this experience when playing larger mechs. Why?

[denAirwalkerrr]

BLOODREDSIN, on 18 September 2021 - 02:56 PM, said:

Give it up dude, no one has any legitimate lore as of yet proving lights are also intended to take on mechs heavier than themselves solo and dominate. Also your sad attempts to "get at me" will not work. Spare yourself from looking any more foolish. There was nothing innocuous about this thread or the way you are behaving in it.

Just because you have clueless opnion about how lights should be unplayable doesn't mean they shouldn't pose thread to heavier mechs.

[Escef]

Brauer, on 18 September 2021 - 07:35 AM, said:

TBF a decent streak-boat will still often halve a PIR in one-shot

Fresh? Probably not. Pre-nerf, I plowed a full spread of 36 Streaks from a Mad Dog into the face of a fresh Locust on two separate occasions, and watched the little bugger tank it and run... Don't get me wrong, those Locusts were in no condition to mess with anyone after that, and I know Locusts are tougher than Piranhas.

I think you are overestimating the power of Streaks and underestimating how much damage it takes to down a light mech.

[BLOODREDSIN]

MechNexus, on 18 September 2021 - 02:35 PM, said:

Me and Patton have made posts in other threads busting the "lights are scouts" myth.

As for the Panther, there's this from Sarna:
"Their first large-scale use by Kurita warriors came during the First Succession War in the battle for Quentin, when the 2nd Legion of Vega used their Panthers to severely maul the slower, heavier 'Mechs of the 42nd Avalon Hussars while avoiding return fire." - Sarna cites Technical Readouts 3039, 3025 revised, and 3050 upgrade for the paragraph this was taken from.

Correct me if i am wrong but i see the word Panthers .... Plural - scenario depicts them sitting back and ppc sniping as a group. This scenario is not even comparable to anything we are talking about.

MechNexus, on 18 September 2021 - 02:35 PM, said:

And for the Jenner - while it's true that the example I cited was about a wolfpack, it's still not impossible for a good light pilot to beat out an assault in lore. The JR7-D, using tabletop damage values, has an alpha of 28 points. The Atlas' default back armour in tabletop (MWO doubles armour values compare to tabletop) is 10 on a side torso, 14 on the CT. 21 and 31 for the underlying structure respectively. Before crits, you can easily open up a stock AS7-D in a stock JR7-D from the rear, and if you don't hit the CT you're definitely cooking off some of their ammo.

Again, this is another poor example. Its not impossible? Maybe not but it is for sure a suicide mission at best approaching an enemy Atlas in a Jenner. Especially when the radar detection systems work properly.

MechNexus, on 18 September 2021 - 02:35 PM, said:

Honestly, though? That's besides the point. MWO is fundamentally an arena shooter with mechs, and every option available to the player should be a viable pick with strengths and weaknesses. The way MWO is set up, "assaults win everything" wouldn't lead to a good experience. Lights have to be viable and enjoyable to play, regardless of lore.

Agreed, lights must be viable. But there are cases where it goes way beyond the line. There has been such a push to coddle lights in this game that they literally have received buff after buff after buff continuing to this day and beyond with the next patch. Interesting no one in any real mech game that came before this doppelganger was crying how under powered lights were or calling for light buffs all the time. It just was what it was.

[Angus McFife VI]

BLOODREDSIN, on 18 September 2021 - 03:19 PM, said:

Correct me if i am wrong but i see the word Panthers .... Plural - scenario depicts them sitting back and ppc sniping as a group. This scenario is not even comparable to anything we are talking about.



Again, this is another poor example. Its not impossible? Maybe not but it is for sure a suicide mission at best approaching an enemy Atlas in a Jenner. Especially when the radar detection systems work properly.




Agreed, lights must be viable. But there are cases where it goes way beyond the line. There has been such a push to coddle lights in this game that they literally have received buff after buff after buff continuing to this day and beyond with the next patch. Interesting no one in any real mech game that came before this doppelganger was crying how under powered lights were or calling for light buffs all the time. It just was what it was.

It's ok to admit that you're wrong, we're not going to make fun of you or anything. As a matter of fact, we can help you deal with lights better.

[pattonesque]

Repeated: if you are in a properly built and utilized heavier mech you should have no problem taking on a light 1-on-1.

Bloodredsin, you have problems taking on a light 1-on-1. Is this because PGI/The Cauldron/evil competitive players have made it so, or is it because you are the problem?

Please, the next time you find yourself in this situation, ignore the rising panic, take a deep breath, and just shoot the light. You'll see a dramatic improvement.

Edited by pattonesque, 18 September 2021 - 03:24 PM.

[MechNexus]

pattonesque, on 18 September 2021 - 03:23 PM, said:

Repeated: if you are in a properly built and utilized heavier mech you should have no problem taking on a light 1-on-1.

Bloodredsin, you have problems taking on a light 1-on-1. Is this because PGI/The Cauldron/evil competitive players have made it so, or is it because you are the problem?

Please, the next time you find yourself in this situation, ignore the rising panic, take a deep breath, and just shoot the light. You'll see a dramatic improvement.

can confirm, getting shot at is rather unpleasant when you're piloting a light

Legit, just leg them. Makes everything tons easier.

Edited by MechNexus, 18 September 2021 - 03:30 PM.

[Gagis]

This thread is going places!

[Kurlon]

BLOODREDSIN, on 18 September 2021 - 02:56 PM, said:

Give it up dude, no one has any legitimate lore as of yet proving lights are also intended to take on mechs heavier than themselves solo and dominate.

Doesn't need to be a 'lore' reason. MWO is it's own game that uses Battletech as a thematic starting point, but that's it. This isn't tabletop translated to real time, it's not a sim, it's a rapid fire first person shooter with deeper mechanics than Call of Duty. All balancing, etc should be focused on making that experience as fun as possible, full stop, 'lore' be damned if it gets in the way.

[BLOODREDSIN]

pattonesque, on 18 September 2021 - 02:45 PM, said:

I posted a thread about the Piranha’s main strength being that people are scared of it and showing them they don’t need to be

You responded to it with some bonkers stuff my dude

Logical conclusion is that you have a problem with lights and got upset when offered a way to deal with this

Dont try to spin this man, lol you know good and well you posted that false narrative concealed in a joke attempt - but also subtlety concealed in that was you trying to convey to all of us that you are so good you are so elite that you have no problems ever at all. Do you know why people are scared of that thing? I know you know. Don't act like you don't.


That is not a logical conclusion, that was a dumb assumption. I do however recognize there is a problem and i am not afraid to speak up about it especially when i keep seeing these threads and posts trying to convince everyone " hey its ok - you just suck - just aim - just shoot them" ect... its complete BS and each of you know it.

[Brauer]

Escef, on 18 September 2021 - 03:11 PM, said:

Fresh? Probably not. Pre-nerf, I plowed a full spread of 36 Streaks from a Mad Dog into the face of a fresh Locust on two separate occasions, and watched the little bugger tank it and run... Don't get me wrong, those Locusts were in no condition to mess with anyone after that, and I know Locusts are tougher than Piranhas.

I think you are overestimating the power of Streaks and underestimating how much damage it takes to down a light mech.

I play Piranhas a fair bit, among a wide range of other mechs including very slow assaults, and I know from personal experience a decent streak boat can instantly halve or maim a Piranha in one volley.

BLOODREDSIN, on 18 September 2021 - 01:48 PM, said:

HSR is a complete joke but here is one ever funnier - all you people that think PGI programed this new system known as host state rewind and it solves all lag issues in multiplay. Its so good every other game company is just itching to get it in their game! That is freaking HILARIOUS!! Look at the state of this game, look at its population, look at the people in charge, the history of this game and the company that runs it. And you think these guys somehow invented a flawless foolproof way to circumvent the lag?

HSR is not a joke. For MWO it generally works quite well. It sounds to me like you have a particularly shoddy internet connection (possibly a PC that struggles to run MWO as well).

Edited by Brauer, 18 September 2021 - 03:59 PM.

[pattonesque]

BLOODREDSIN, on 18 September 2021 - 03:44 PM, said:

Dont try to spin this man, lol you know good and well you posted that false narrative concealed in a joke attempt - but also subtlety concealed in that was you trying to convey to all of us that you are so good you are so elite that you have no problems ever at all. Do you know why people are scared of that thing? I know you know. Don't act like you don't.


That is not a logical conclusion, that was a dumb assumption. I do however recognize there is a problem and i am not afraid to speak up about it especially when i keep seeing these threads and posts trying to convince everyone " hey its ok - you just suck - just aim - just shoot them" ect... its complete BS and each of you know it.

I'm not a competitive player. I'd say I'm a good quickplay player. People way worse than I am do not have this problem with Piranhas because it is just that simple. It's just math, dude. A Piranha does not have a lot of armor. You can blow through its CT with one dual-heavy gauss volley, not even counting backup lasers. You can burn through a leg with one good laservomit alpha. The Piranha is also not particularly small and not particularly agile, so it's not like it's going to be doing Flea-level jukes.

You're the exact kind of player the original post was aimed at, not because I want to make fun of you but because this specific approach, which again does not require elite aim, will dramatically improve your gameplay against lights. You can indulge in this useless rage and paranoia and continue to panic whenever a Piranha gets near you, or you can keep this all in mind and just shoot them.

Basically I don't enjoy this game when my teammates freak out against a Piranha, and playing a Piranha myself isn't super satisfying when I happen upon someone who panics and freaks out and alt-tabs rather than actually fights me. I want folks to know what to do in these situations because it's better for everyone.

[LordNothing]

justcallme A S H, on 17 September 2021 - 06:39 PM, said:

Want a foolproof guide for anti-PIR?


SHOOT THEM.

to be specific for the potatoes, you have to shoot the mech, not the ground behind the mech. lead your target, a mech width or two is usually enough depending on range and lag.

also if you find yourself in a situation where 5 guys are trying to kill one fish, you just make the thing harder to kill by crowding in at best, and doing more damage to eachother than the fish is at worst. so unless your mech is specifically built to kill squirrels or has good anti squirrel weapons, or you bring god like aiming skills, you might want to leave it to the others. go help the other guys in your team who are abandoned on the front left to hold off the enemy while everyone else is distracted.

also you do not need to chase squirrels at all unless you are some kind of medium light intercepter or streak boat or another squirrel. most weapons have enough range to hit a squirrel in machine gun/small laser range. halting your movement will make aiming a lot easier. squirrel wants to cause chaos, and if you dont act chaotically then the squirrel loses a small victory.

Edited by LordNothing, 18 September 2021 - 04:53 PM.

[Brauer]

LordNothing, on 18 September 2021 - 04:02 PM, said:

to be specific for the potatoes, you have to shoot the mech, not the ground behind the mech. lead your target, a mech width or two is usually enough depending on range and lag.

also if you find yourself in a situation where 5 guys are trying to kill one fish, you just make the thing harder to kill by crowding in at best, and doing more damage to eachother than the fish is at worst. so unless your mech is specifically built to kill squirrels or has good anti squirrel weapons, or you bring god like aiming skills, you might want to leave it to the others. go help the other guys in your team who are abandoned on the front left to hold off the enemy while everyone else is distracted.

Due to HSR you do not need to lead with hitscan, so encouraging people to lead is not necessarily helpful. It's not lag that causes the need to lead a shot, it's projectile velocity.

[Alexander of Macedon]

justcallme A S H, on 17 September 2021 - 06:39 PM, said:

Want a foolproof guide for anti-PIR?


SHOOT THEM.

Hey ASH, thanks for making the post I came here to make.

[ForkTheSpoonWrecker]

BLOODREDSIN, please tell us more of how you feel in tier 5.

[J a y]

BLOODREDSIN, on 18 September 2021 - 01:15 PM, said:

That mech should not be in the game whatsoever. We have ZERO infantry running around. It does not belong. That mech was never for facing off against or killing other mechs. In fact, none of these lights that enjoy greifing other players in MWO are supposed to stand a snowballs chance in hell against anything heavier.Lights are scouts and fire support - THATS IT! That is how it has always been. Here we have lights soloing heavier opposition with ease. Many times before the victim can't even react. That is a major f#%@ing problem. And when they pack up? Game over. PGI has skewed the entire franchise with the moves they have pulled. PGI duped the whole community with a bait and switch(one of many used against the playerbase) they came up with while looking at new chassis to add to the game. First they sold you on the 6 Mgun cheetah, then next was the 8 Mgun Lynx, then the coup de grace... Piranha 12 Mguns. It was all planned like clockwork and executed to great monetary gain for PGI. So many of you fools fell for it. Some of you suckers may not even realize what happened but you got set up and swindled in the name of $$$. Meanwhile game balance, for all, takes a major hit. Just like it does with PGI custom radar bullsh#t that deviates from all other real mechwarrior titles. Allowing people in mechs weighing up to 100 TONS or lances of many hundreds of tons sneak up on you with this pseudo stealth garbage they implemented. The radar is wrong, size of mechs is wrong, the electronics functions are wrong, light mech function is wrong.... hell i can keep going to infinity.

[redacted]

Sir, this is a Triple F Burger drive through.

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 20 September 2021 - 10:21 PM.
quote clean-up

[LordNothing]

Brauer, on 18 September 2021 - 04:04 PM, said:

Due to HSR you do not need to lead with hitscan, so encouraging people to lead is not necessarily helpful. It's not lag that causes the need to lead a shot, it's projectile velocity.

that might be true if you are packing lasers or machine guns. but if you find yourself with an ac20 or ppc you are going to need to lead. even with hitscan you still need to lead a little bit to make up for human reaction time and input latency as well as display latency. these numbers are small but they add up to something perceptible. i mean were talking the difference between hitting an st and an arm and it doesnt take much error to turn a lethal shot into merely an annoying one.

Edited by LordNothing, 18 September 2021 - 04:56 PM.

[Brauer]

LordNothing, on 18 September 2021 - 04:49 PM, said:

that might be true if you are packing lasers or machine guns. but if you find yourself with an ac20 or ppc you are going to need to lead. even with hitscan you still need to lead a little bit to make up for human reaction time and input latency as well as display latency. these numbers are small but they add up to something perceptible. i mean were talking the difference between hitting an st and an arm and it doesnt take much error to turn a lethal shot into merely an annoying one.

No, you are overthinking this for hitscan weapons. Hitscan weapons are pretty simple. You aim where you want the damage applied, the damage gets applied. Input latency is a thing, but I don't find it to matter in any appreciable way here.

As I already said any weapon with a projectile you may need to lead depending on velocity and range.