51 replies to this topic

[Lifeblight]

These patches give IS mechs a massive advantage. You see strong IS mechs that everyone already plays getting stronger while most of the Clan mechs that are getting buffed are terrible to begin with. You can really feel the difference in how the matches go.

I understand there is a bias within the cauldron to make the comp mechs they play better but to pretend that it's somehow becoming more balanced is a fallacy.

Just one example, look at the armor difference between the two Hunchbacks now. Why such a disparity?

I'm also curious why there is still a tonnage difference between the factions? What purpose does this serve if both sides are now more even.

[John Bronco]

lmao

Complain a bit harder when cERLL is currently the strongest weapon in the game and you can bring 2 million of them.

[Curccu]

John Snow you know nothing.



You know cauldron isn't just comp players?

and I have managed well on both sides in FP, dunno really what you are talking about.

Look at how many u/lb/AC20s, gauss rifles erppcs (adequate amount of heatsinks) those hunchbacks can fit

PS. John B managed to post between me and OP while I was writing this, you are not the John I'm talking about.

Edited by Curccu, 22 September 2021 - 05:40 AM.

[Spheroid]

I don’t agree with premise of thread. The Cauldron is buffing under performing mechs, of which the Hunchback most clearly was. The patch has been less than a day and you are already claiming huge swings in meta?

[feeWAIVER]

Hunchbacks are just a bad example, because IS has always had more armor/quirks and the IIC has always had way more firepower.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Lifeblight, on 22 September 2021 - 04:40 AM, said:

Just one example, look at the armor difference between the two Hunchbacks now. Why such a disparity?

The Hunchback IIC always had low armor in lore and in game. The whole concept of the Hunchback IIC was a suicidal mech that brings tremendous firepower for a clan medium mech. The Hunchback IIC has really high hardpoints and is a fantastic hill peaker, but the trade off is low armor. The IS Hunchback is supposed to the the tankier counterpart as is the theme with most IS mechs.

[Lifeblight]

John Bronco, on 22 September 2021 - 05:36 AM, said:

lmao

Complain a bit harder when cERLL is currently the strongest weapon in the game and you can bring 2 million of them.

I'd argue Gauss/PPC meta is stronger the cERLL. That's some serious pinpoint damage with a higher rate of projectile speed. I'd also argue the mechs who can boat ERL for IS are better mechs. What's better than a Stalker, Atlas, BM or Annihilator for ERL on clan side? The Supernova is the only comparable mech with good high mounts. A dire wolf? Possibly, but you have to expose the entire mech to be effective.

I don't agree with your assessment.

[pattonesque]

Lifeblight, on 22 September 2021 - 04:40 AM, said:

These patches give IS mechs a massive advantage. You see

Just one example, look at the armor difference between the two Hunchbacks now. Why such a disparity?

Man, come on. The HBK-IIC mounts incredible firepower compared to the IS HBK. Why even make this point if you’re not paying attention?

[Lifeblight]

Spheroid, on 22 September 2021 - 05:55 AM, said:

I don’t agree with premise of thread. The Cauldron is buffing under performing mechs, of which the Hunchback most clearly was. The patch has been less than a day and you are already claiming huge swings in meta?

The Atlas D, Victor, Cyclops needed a buff? I feel like you see a lot of those mechs already. The Storm Crow, Sun Spider and Kit Fox didn't need any either to be fair.

I'm looking at all of the patches that have come out recently, not just this one. I respectfully disagree with you that this has improved fairness for FP. For QP, doesn't matter of course.

If there's not a balance issue why do you predominantly see IS mechs in Solaris and Comp?

feeWAIVER, on 22 September 2021 - 06:11 AM, said:

Hunchbacks are just a bad example, because IS has always had more armor/quirks and the IIC has always had way more firepower.

Agreed, not the best example but one of the few mechs that's similar for both sides in what it can do. The IIC isn't really viable right now with the high pin point damage and those massive torsos.

Valdarion Silarius, on 22 September 2021 - 06:18 AM, said:

The Hunchback IIC always had low armor in lore and in game. The whole concept of the Hunchback IIC was a suicidal mech that brings tremendous firepower for a clan medium mech. The Hunchback IIC has really high hardpoints and is a fantastic hill peaker, but the trade off is low armor. The IS Hunchback is supposed to the the tankier counterpart as is the theme with most IS mechs.

Are we following lore when these decisions because there are a lot of issues with many mechs on both sides if that's the case. I don't think that's how a video game should be based on at any rate.

Excellent hill humper certainly, one of the best. With the current meta of PPC/Gauss however, those torsos are gone instantly when a good player fires at you. Not a great example, but one mech that is similar in size and ability was why I used it.

[Curccu]

Lifeblight, on 22 September 2021 - 06:35 AM, said:

Agreed, not the best example but one of the few mechs that's similar for both sides in what it can do. The IIC isn't really viable right now with the high pin point damage and those massive torsos.

You are doing it wrong... If you are exposing more than just your cockpit.
with ERLL do peek and half duration burn and hide, need stupid good opponent to pop you with gauss/ppc combo in that peek 500+ meters away preferable 800+ meters away which is your optimal.
And we can take another example, vapor eagle. What mechs IS have with same tonnage that are as good as VGL?

[Lifeblight]

Curccu, on 22 September 2021 - 11:02 AM, said:

You are doing it wrong... If you are exposing more than just your cockpit.
with ERLL do peek and half duration burn and hide, need stupid good opponent to pop you with gauss/ppc combo in that peek 500+ meters away preferable 800+ meters away which is your optimal.
And we can take another example, vapor eagle. What mechs IS have with same tonnage that are as good as VGL?

The VGL is a great mech. Clan has AW, VGL and Storm Crow for medium mechs. How many does IS have that are excellent? We can go on endlessly about what mech matches up to "this mech" or that mech. It gets us no where. IS is currently the stronger faction in FP.

[Monkey Lover]

Maybe the 10 of you playing this mode should talk about it In the cw forum. Lol

[LordNothing]

i think what happened is all the normal players don't know how to parse the huge amount of quirk changes to adapt to and as a result are playing very cautiously, that means camping from range and being way too passive.

meanwhile high skill players who follow the cauldron closely have probibly already built new metamechs to make best use of the cauldron changes, and to exploit the general apathy lower skill players have about the new situation.

just give it time to sort itself out. rethink your builds if you have to. if you instead respond with camping with more camping you are going to end up in the same level of attrition play that has made fp boring the last year or so. but if you look at other changes there are new counters to camping on the table, more ballistic lights for example can out dps and out cool the sniper competition. there is another thread complaining about squirrels after the patch, so its already started. i expect tomorrow somoni else will complain because they figured out how to use something in the cauldron patch to counter the wolfpacks.

[justcallme A S H]

Lifeblight, on 22 September 2021 - 04:40 AM, said:

I understand there is a bias within the cauldron to make the comp mechs they play better but to pretend that it's somehow becoming more balanced is a fallacy.

So why did the Cauldron buff the Nightstar and not some of the strongest clan mechs - VGL, BASP, NTG, MC MKII?

Right there I have just shown your argument to be the actual fallacy here. There is no bias, the worst mechs are being brought up - end of story.


Perhaps you and your unit wanna try something other than just Linebacker rushing PUG teams all night, try some actually strong clan mechs. Try to shoot rather than just Zerg.

I've played a fair chunk of clan the last month, I've been doing the same as always.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 22 September 2021 - 07:36 PM.

[Nightbird]

DSX player that never plays IS complaining about IS OP is just par for course...

The reality is that many clan mechs that were UP before were buffed, like the piranha, myst lynx, cheeta, adder, cougar, hunchback iic, ice ferret, stormcrow, timberwolf, ebon jaguar, gargoyle, super nova, highlander IIC, and dire wolf.

Next time, will it be complaining that attacking on siege is OP?

Edited by Nightbird, 22 September 2021 - 08:01 PM.

[John Bronco]

To say nothing of the best heavy in the game - the Gyr.

[TheCallandor]

I haven't seen where the IS is over powered in FP, most of the competitive units playing FP on the clan side (GN-X, CSPS, BTDN, etc...) run a lot of C-LP, C-ERmed builds which out alpha IS mech and for the most part out DPS them. Plus, there seems to an even more growing of pop-tarting again.

[pbiggz]

Lifeblight, on 22 September 2021 - 04:40 AM, said:

These patches give IS mechs a massive advantage. You see strong IS mechs that everyone already plays getting stronger while most of the Clan mechs that are getting buffed are terrible to begin with. You can really feel the difference in how the matches go.

I understand there is a bias within the cauldron to make the comp mechs they play better but to pretend that it's somehow becoming more balanced is a fallacy.

Just one example, look at the armor difference between the two Hunchbacks now. Why such a disparity?

I'm also curious why there is still a tonnage difference between the factions? What purpose does this serve if both sides are now more even.

No, this is not a valid complaint.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

that's the first time I read of an underperforming HunchieIIC in FW. It's a staple in many decks of mine.
as well as a lot of other stuff.. what the actual heck?

[Lifeblight]

LordNothing, on 22 September 2021 - 05:59 PM, said:

i think what happened is all the normal players don't know how to parse the huge amount of quirk changes to adapt to and as a result are playing very cautiously, that means camping from range and being way too passive.

meanwhile high skill players who follow the cauldron closely have probibly already built new metamechs to make best use of the cauldron changes, and to exploit the general apathy lower skill players have about the new situation.

just give it time to sort itself out. rethink your builds if you have to. if you instead respond with camping with more camping you are going to end up in the same level of attrition play that has made fp boring the last year or so. but if you look at other changes there are new counters to camping on the table, more ballistic lights for example can out dps and out cool the sniper competition. there is another thread complaining about squirrels after the patch, so its already started. i expect tomorrow somoni else will complain because they figured out how to use something in the cauldron patch to counter the wolfpacks.

Something positive on a forum? That's nice advice.

justcallme A S H, on 22 September 2021 - 06:54 PM, said:

So why did the Cauldron buff the Nightstar and not some of the strongest clan mechs - VGL, BASP, NTG, MC MKII?

Right there I have just shown your argument to be the actual fallacy here. There is no bias, the worst mechs are being brought up - end of story.


Perhaps you and your unit wanna try something other than just Linebacker rushing PUG teams all night, try some actually strong clan mechs. Try to shoot rather than just Zerg.

I've played a fair chunk of clan the last month, I've been doing the same as always.

You started out really well Ash. I thought we were going to have a discussion that was productive. Then... you went all Ash...