34 replies to this topic

[AjerWerklWerkl]

I really appreciate the work that PGI (particularly François) and others are putting into improving maps!

But there is a much simpler, cheaper way to give people new gameplay experiences on the existing maps: rotate the spawn points!!!

Put the domination circle/bases in a few different spots. Spawn both teams off to the sides but just on the edge of being able to see each other so they don't automatically run to the middle of the map...

Domination circle rotation happens sometimes on Alpine Peaks, and it would be perfect on lots of other big maps too, including the new Polar Highlands and Grim Plexus. It's so silly to have giant maps where ~8 tiles in the middle are used for the gameplay and the rest are all used for... WALKING!

Surely this has been explored, but even if there are details to sort out, it seems much easier to do that than to redo entire maps, after which the community ends up split on whether the improvements are even good!

People seem to like this idea, so if you do, please reply to the thread with a "+1" so that the folks at PGI will see it and hopefully implement this instead of burning all their time and $ on recreating maps where we will all go to the center AGAIN each game.

Thoughts? Tx!

Edited by AjerWerklWerkl, 04 October 2021 - 08:54 PM.

[Mark Yore]

AjerWerklWerkl, on 23 September 2021 - 06:16 AM, said:

I really appreciate the work that PGI (particularly Fran[color=#4D5156]ç[/color]ois) and others are putting into improving maps!

But there is a much simpler, cheaper way to give people new gameplay experiences on the existing maps: rotate the spawn points!!! Put the domination circle in a few different spots. Spawn both teams off to the sides but just on the edge of visibility so they don't automatically run to the middle of the map...

This happens sometimes on Alpine Peaks, and it would be perfect on lots of other big maps too, including the new Polar Highlands and Grim Plexus.

Surely this has been explored, but even if there are details to sort out, it seems much easier to do that than to redo entire maps, after which the community ends up split on the maps!

Thoughts? Tx!

YES. I've been saying this for ages.

[pbiggz]

AjerWerklWerkl, on 23 September 2021 - 06:16 AM, said:

I really appreciate the work that PGI (particularly Fran[color=#4D5156]ç[/color]ois) and others are putting into improving maps!

But there is a much simpler, cheaper way to give people new gameplay experiences on the existing maps: rotate the spawn points!!! Put the domination circle in a few different spots. Spawn both teams off to the sides but just on the edge of visibility so they don't automatically run to the middle of the map...

This happens sometimes on Alpine Peaks, and it would be perfect on lots of other big maps too, including the new Polar Highlands and Grim Plexus.

Surely this has been explored, but even if there are details to sort out, it seems much easier to do that than to redo entire maps, after which the community ends up split on the maps!

Thoughts? Tx!

There have been a few threads on this, my own included. Absolutely this is correct.

[martian]

AjerWerklWerkl, on 23 September 2021 - 06:16 AM, said:

But there is a much simpler, cheaper way to give people new gameplay experiences on the existing maps: rotate the spawn points!!!

I would like to remind you that PGI needed literally a decade to adjust spawn points on some MWO maps ...

... and you ask them to do something more difficult?

[ScrapIron Prime]

Not only that, but having more than one location on a map for the Domination circle to be located would vary games as well. Keep on suggesting!

[Saved By The Bell]

Nice idea.

[pbiggz]

martian, on 23 September 2021 - 07:47 AM, said:

I would like to remind you that PGI needed literally a decade to adjust spawn points on some MWO maps ...

... and you ask them to do something more difficult?

Its a good idea. We really aren't talking about why its unlikely here.

[Papaspud]

I have always thought the same thing- on the big maps especially. Not sure how hard it would be to implement.

[AjerWerklWerkl]

Papaspud, on 23 September 2021 - 10:38 AM, said:

I have always thought the same thing- on the big maps especially. Not sure how hard it would be to implement.

It would be pretty insane if redoing maps is easier than moving spawn points!!!

Several maps already have multiple sets of spawn points, but they are always symmetric with respect to the center, which is the problem.

[LordNothing]

been there done that.

the best way to fix the map problem is make more maps.

Edited by LordNothing, 24 September 2021 - 01:08 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Im thinking its a hars problem and No Coders and Programmers for the Cry 3 Engine...

1.Clear definition of Spawnpoints
2.Writing of Algorithmas for a selection of the Spawnpoints without Problems (impassable Terarin -assaults to near to enemy lights ...and all by asymetrical Maps

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 24 September 2021 - 01:46 AM.

[Wildstreak]

LordNothing, on 24 September 2021 - 01:08 AM, said:

been there done that.

the best way to fix the map problem is make more maps.

Nope.

Personally I would rather they did what some other games did, have several fixed spawn points and players could choose which one they spawned at. Just because a 4 man lance is typical IS formation does not mean you have to spawn with 3 other people at the same spot.

Domination could be fixed by having 2-3 circles per map based on size count the same for the timer. Lately so tired of seeing Domination picked only for:
1 - 1 guy makes it in, 23 other people fight outside the circle and 12 lose due to leaving it while that 1 guy gets punished for winning.
2 - No one makes it in at match start because people are now bringing ranged builds so no one rushes to circle.
3 - 3-4 Lights make it in while the other team only has 1 and he gets chased out, his slow friends never make it in so instant loss with almost no damage done, everyone but a few Lights lose under broken PSR / Tier system.

[pbiggz]

LordNothing, on 24 September 2021 - 01:08 AM, said:

been there done that.

the best way to fix the map problem is make more maps.

Literally we have never done what's been proposed in this thread. What the hell are you going on about?

Edited by pbiggz, 24 September 2021 - 06:30 AM.

[Mark Yore]

Wildstreak, on 24 September 2021 - 02:49 AM, said:

Domination could be fixed by having 2-3 circles per map based on size count the same for the timer. Lately so tired of seeing Domination picked only for:
1 - 1 guy makes it in, 23 other people fight outside the circle and 12 lose due to leaving it while that 1 guy gets punished for winning.
2 - No one makes it in at match start because people are now bringing ranged builds so no one rushes to circle.
3 - 3-4 Lights make it in while the other team only has 1 and he gets chased out, his slow friends never make it in so instant loss with almost no damage done, everyone but a few Lights lose under broken PSR / Tier system.

River City is probably the worst for this behaviour. This is how it normally plays out ...
1) I head towards the centre. Normally I get there first, even if I'm in an Assault and we have four lights on the team.
2) Because of this we're at the sub-45 second mark.
3) I wait patiently for the rest of my team.
4) I get LRMed and randomly shot to oblivion, while everyone else has found a nice spot with cover - except for the Lights.
5) The Lights are off on an adventure, probably pointlessly trying to shoot an enemy base or dropping a UAV well outside any actual fighting going on.
6) We lose. My personal worst game is running out of time (after I'd been killed, of course) with 10 team members still alive.

[Vellron2005]

I'm just saying.. if you're gonna redesign an old map to the point of it no longer being recognizable, might as well make a NEW map altogether.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Mark Yore, on 24 September 2021 - 07:04 AM, said:

River City is probably the worst for this behaviour. This is how it normally plays out ...
1) I head towards the centre. Normally I get there first, even if I'm in an Assault and we have four lights on the team.
2) Because of this we're at the sub-45 second mark.
3) I wait patiently for the rest of my team.
4) I get LRMed and randomly shot to oblivion, while everyone else has found a nice spot with cover - except for the Lights.
5) The Lights are off on an adventure, probably pointlessly trying to shoot an enemy base or dropping a UAV well outside any actual fighting going on.
6) We lose. My personal worst game is running out of time (after I'd been killed, of course) with 10 team members still alive.

You can mitigate number four with more skill buys on the Sensor tree. 100% radar deprivation keeps the rain off and does a pretty good job of deterring any sniper except one who already had you in his gunsights.

[Moldur]

I agree with OP. Alpine Peaks domination does this to an extent. I'm not saying it's great, but it does force fairly close ranged matches in a different part of the map.

[Blood Rose]

Mark Yore, on 24 September 2021 - 07:04 AM, said:

River City is probably the worst for this behaviour. This is how it normally plays out ...
1) I head towards the centre. Normally I get there first, even if I'm in an Assault and we have four lights on the team.
2) Because of this we're at the sub-45 second mark.
3) I wait patiently for the rest of my team.
4) I get LRMed and randomly shot to oblivion, while everyone else has found a nice spot with cover - except for the Lights.
5) The Lights are off on an adventure, probably pointlessly trying to shoot an enemy base or dropping a UAV well outside any actual fighting going on.
6) We lose. My personal worst game is running out of time (after I'd been killed, of course) with 10 team members still alive.

River Cities main problem is that its a trenchline with heavy industry either side of the river and a gigantic open area of no mans land running between them. Re-routing the river to run off to one side or splitting it to form an island in the river would change a lot, as would adding in a few more focus points along the length, rather than just the Citadel, and maybe the Airport.

[pbiggz]

Blood Rose, on 25 September 2021 - 06:02 PM, said:

River Cities main problem is that its a trenchline with heavy industry either side of the river and a gigantic open area of no mans land running between them. Re-routing the river to run off to one side or splitting it to form an island in the river would change a lot, as would adding in a few more focus points along the length, rather than just the Citadel, and maybe the Airport.

Actually its not a particularly small map, and there's lots of places fights could be interesting so, again it's one map that dies for the sins of the game modes, which encourage people to gravitate towards the ocean and/or orbit the citadel. Its the same sad old story for alot of maps that are actually very big and varied, but thanks to the placement of their spawns and objectives, always ends up resulting in players nascarring some arbitrary center point that makes it easier to toilet bowl into the enemy team.

That's why mixing up spawn points and objective locations would be interesting. Imagine what a fight would be like on Terra Therma if the domination circle was in the north east corner of the map and everyone spawned on the south and west sides and had to fight on the fringes.

Even better, imagine if the domination point moved. There's lots of options to explore but at the heart of it we have to admit that the game modes are beta quality at best, and they've been that way since, well, beta.

[Kanil]

pbiggz, on 26 September 2021 - 08:12 AM, said:

That's why mixing up spawn points and objective locations would be interesting. Imagine what a fight would be like on Terra Therma if the domination circle was in the north east corner of the map and everyone spawned on the south and west sides and had to fight on the fringes.

Yeah, this I never understood. Why does PGI create a "you have to fight near this circle or you lose" mode, then just slap the circle where everyone fights anyway, instead of plopping it down somewhere people don't usually fight.

Same thing with the "you have to fight over these squares or you lose" mode, again the squares are mostly where people fight anyway.

You could totally slap down the circle on the east side of River City, have one team spawn NE, one SE. Then for Conquest, plop all 5 points on the west side of the river, and one team NW, one team SW. These two modes would instantly provide completely different experiences using existing assets... and if you really wanted to, you could then revamp the map a little to fix any odd imbalances that show up as a result.