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Are We Gonna Talk About This Apology Letter?


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#21 pattonesque

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 04:36 PM

View PostBlood Rose, on 05 October 2021 - 04:32 PM, said:

Anyway, im bad at actually getting my point across in these things, but i hope you understand. I dont care that they are here, but I do care about them demanding change to a perfectly fine setting. Or how long is it until we have our own version of "Orcs being evil is a racist white-centric view point"?


OK I'll ask again -- specifically, what about trans people existing in this space provokes this reaction in you? You provided an answer above but it's not really addressing that question. If you're a fair-minded individual, shouldn't you be happy (or at least neutral) on a formerly-marginalized group of people finally getting some degree of dignity and recognition? You seem to be really upset about "wokeness" but what exactly is the change for you here? The only thing I can see is that sometimes you might have to hear about trans people in this game. Other than that, it's nothing. You're not required to stop doing anything, you're not required to do anything, you can keep playing mechs to your heart's content.

#22 Llyranor

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 04:41 PM

View PostSug, on 05 October 2021 - 04:33 PM, said:


Movin' on up.

Hey, anyone else old enough to remember this PGI debacle?

edit: And that was 2014...

Bringing that up.... You're the bravest mechwarrior I know

#23 Sug

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 04:42 PM

View PostLlyranor, on 05 October 2021 - 04:41 PM, said:

Bringing that up.... You're the bravest mechwarrior I know


lol hey I didn't put "No Trans Allowed" signs in my game.

Turning the comments off was a good move.

Edited by Sug, 05 October 2021 - 04:44 PM.


#24 Blood Rose

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 04:48 PM

View Postpattonesque, on 05 October 2021 - 04:36 PM, said:


OK I'll ask again -- specifically, what about trans people existing in this space provokes this reaction in you? You provided an answer above but it's not really addressing that question. If you're a fair-minded individual, shouldn't you be happy (or at least neutral) on a formerly-marginalized group of people finally getting some degree of dignity and recognition? You seem to be really upset about "wokeness" but what exactly is the change for you here? The only thing I can see is that sometimes you might have to hear about trans people in this game. Other than that, it's nothing. You're not required to stop doing anything, you're not required to do anything, you can keep playing mechs to your heart's content.

I am going to ask you to re-read what I have posted. Its not them getting recognition, its the move, by the company, from a neutral stance to one more in favour of the woke crowd. Games are neutral. No politics, nada. I would say the exact same thing if PGI were siding with the KKK or people who were raging homophobes. But they bent the knee, they accepted that first push, and exactly as we have seen with Wizards of the Coast, with Hollywood, with most of the major video games companies i the past years, with GW of all places now, and with many more, once the knee has been bent it can never be unbent because the demands from the self proclaimed "good guys" will keep on coming.
Why did trans people need recognition in MWO? What does being trans have to do with piloting giant stompy robots? Why should someones identity even matter in the context of the game or the setting? Please, tell me, what am I missing here?

#25 Ash Rose

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 04:55 PM

Dog, I don't need PGI to validate my existence or whatever, I just need them to not block team comp names for having 'trans' in their name. I promise you, we also just want to shoot robot.

#26 Sug

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:00 PM

So far "Dog" is the thing I have the most issues with.

#27 Ash Rose

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:02 PM

View PostSug, on 05 October 2021 - 05:00 PM, said:

So far "Dog" is the thing I have the most issues with.

Don't like my cool-yet-relaxed language meant to engender a chill vibe? smdh.

#28 YueFei

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:06 PM

View PostBlood Rose, on 05 October 2021 - 04:48 PM, said:

I am going to ask you to re-read what I have posted. Its not them getting recognition, its the move, by the company, from a neutral stance to one more in favour of the woke crowd. Games are neutral. No politics, nada. I would say the exact same thing if PGI were siding with the KKK or people who were raging homophobes. But they bent the knee, they accepted that first push, and exactly as we have seen with Wizards of the Coast, with Hollywood, with most of the major video games companies i the past years, with GW of all places now, and with many more, once the knee has been bent it can never be unbent because the demands from the self proclaimed "good guys" will keep on coming.
Why did trans people need recognition in MWO? What does being trans have to do with piloting giant stompy robots? Why should someones identity even matter in the context of the game or the setting? Please, tell me, what am I missing here?


You're so scared that they'll keep demanding "more"? Like, did you think all work on women's rights in the USA was finished the exact moment they got the vote in 1920? Would you have also ranted about "OMG what's next? They gonna want equal pay for equal work, too!?"

If this first step opens the door for more? Good. That's what progress is. I look forward to the day when my own grandchildren find my views backward and appalling, because it will mean that society has been moving forward. I only hope I have the wisdom to stay out of their way, rather than being an old man yelling at clouds. Or, even better, I find a way to altogether transcend the biases that were inculcated into me since childhood!

#29 Sug

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:08 PM

View PostAsh Rose, on 05 October 2021 - 05:02 PM, said:

Don't like my cool-yet-relaxed language meant to engender a chill vibe? smdh.


I mean, as someone that lived through the early 90's, I can appreciate the nostalgia.

#30 The6thMessenger

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:10 PM

View PostBlood Rose, on 05 October 2021 - 04:48 PM, said:

Why should someones identity even matter in the context of the game or the setting? Please, tell me, what am I missing here?


Narcissism, self-centeredness. It's when people demand relatability through chosen identity that somehow circles back to them as a person, instead of just treating said other people as individuals.

It's rather pervasive in our society nowadays really. I blame social media.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 05 October 2021 - 05:14 PM.


#31 pattonesque

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:14 PM

View PostBlood Rose, on 05 October 2021 - 04:48 PM, said:

I am going to ask you to re-read what I have posted. Its not them getting recognition, its the move, by the company, from a neutral stance to one more in favour of the woke crowd. Games are neutral. No politics, nada. I would say the exact same thing if PGI were siding with the KKK or people who were raging homophobes. But they bent the knee, they accepted that first push, and exactly as we have seen with Wizards of the Coast, with Hollywood, with most of the major video games companies i the past years, with GW of all places now, and with many more, once the knee has been bent it can never be unbent because the demands from the self proclaimed "good guys" will keep on coming.
Why did trans people need recognition in MWO? What does being trans have to do with piloting giant stompy robots? Why should someones identity even matter in the context of the game or the setting? Please, tell me, what am I missing here?



What more do you think they'll demand? Again, nothing has been required of or prohibited to you. The only thing that's changed is that two teams have "trans fights" and "trans rights" in their names. What's the next step here, do you think? Be specific.




View PostThe6thMessenger, on 05 October 2021 - 05:10 PM, said:


Narcissism, self-centeredness.

It's rather pervasive in our society nowadays really. I blame social media.


trans folks have had a rough time -- discriminated against both in the law and outside of it, ostracized from family, high rates of suicide as a result of the latter. I don't think allowing "trans fights" and "trans rights" as team names and in chat is the catering you think it is.

#32 Ash Rose

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:17 PM

View PostSug, on 05 October 2021 - 05:08 PM, said:


I mean, as someone that lived through the early 90's, I can appreciate the nostalgia.


80s babies, how we doin'

the actual nefarious woke agenda I have for MWO is that I want all mechs to wear Jncos, I will command the Twitter hivemind, a thing that def exists, to angrily post until this happens.

#33 Sug

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:18 PM

View PostBlood Rose, on 05 October 2021 - 04:48 PM, said:

Why did trans people need recognition in MWO? What does being trans have to do with piloting giant stompy robots? Why should someones identity even matter in the context of the game or the setting? Please, tell me, what am I missing here?


Obviously they're trying use the MWO population to finally get trans issues some mass media exposure.

#34 pattonesque

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:20 PM

View PostSug, on 05 October 2021 - 05:18 PM, said:


Obviously they're trying use the MWO population to finally get trans issues some mass media exposure.


who knew that a 20,000-player game based on a weird 80s tabletop sim populated disproportionately by boomers would be the trans community's trojan horse for total media domination

#35 Sug

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:25 PM

View Postpattonesque, on 05 October 2021 - 05:20 PM, said:

who knew that a 20,000-player game based on a weird 80s tabletop sim populated disproportionately by boomers would be the trans community's trojan horse for total media domination


What a ******* coup.


This is a venue that reaches literally tens of millions of monitor pixels across the world.

Edited by Sug, 05 October 2021 - 05:28 PM.


#36 Ash Rose

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:26 PM

View Postpattonesque, on 05 October 2021 - 05:20 PM, said:


who knew that a 20,000-player game based on a weird 80s tabletop sim populated disproportionately by boomers would be the trans community's trojan horse for total media domination

****, they're onto us.

#37 The6thMessenger

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:27 PM

View Postpattonesque, on 05 October 2021 - 05:14 PM, said:

trans folks have had a rough time -- discriminated against both in the law and outside of it, ostracized from family, high rates of suicide as a result of the latter. I don't think allowing "trans fights" and "trans rights" as team names and in chat is the catering you think it is.


It's not really the catering or lack there-of, and quite frankly I don't care about the name. In fact, such answer is to address the other person's query.

The comment was the bigger picture, end here it's the need of recognition and attention, to make everything about x. This **** is pervasive.

Could you imagine discussing LoTR, and someone pointed out real world politics there? What's the point of the escapist fantasy if we're not going to leave the real world behind? And the sad fact there is that they are actually doing it to LoTR right now.

People just want their stompy robots, likewise elves and dwarves, in their respective spaces. This attempt to add real world politics here is just ruining it for everyone else.

#38 Ash Rose

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:29 PM

Nobody is asking for lore changes over this, you paranoid weirdo.

#39 The6thMessenger

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:31 PM

View PostAsh Rose, on 05 October 2021 - 05:29 PM, said:

Nobody is asking for lore changes over this, you paranoid weirdo.


Misconstrusion is really all too common.

#40 Sug

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:31 PM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 05 October 2021 - 05:27 PM, said:

This attempt to add real world politics here is just ruining it for everyone else.


I can get behind that. I don't need to see teams named Blue Lives Matter or Biden2024. I'm here to escape that ****.





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