449 replies to this topic

[Vite Ramen]

The world's first trans clinic, the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft in Berlin, was destroyed by the {Godwin's Law}. Weird, huh?

[pattonesque]

Llyranor, on 05 October 2021 - 06:07 PM, said:

The world's first trans clinic, the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft in Berlin, was destroyed by the {Godwin's Law}. Weird, huh?

no but don't you understand, they're one and the same according to this brain geniouse

[ccrider]

I admire all of the reasonable people who are pro trans rights and just want everyone to enjoy the same quality of life equally. Unfortunately I've shifted WAY past reasonable and would just like to tell the "I'm not anti-trans, gay or whatever as long as it's silent and hides in a hole" people to STFU and eat a steaming pile of dogshit. You should really ask yourselves this; if we allow society to degrade a few groups so much, when is it your turn to be on the *** end of policies like these? Equal rights for everyone is important. Because the next group that gets **** on might be yours. And with all the friends your making, good luck finding allies.

Again, to those making logical, cogent arguments, my utmost respect. I've just realized I can't debate ******** anymore without getting angry so I apologize for being intolerant of ********* but I'm way past the point of caring if they get hurt feelings.

[Elad]

What is interesting to me is that I've seen this whole "fiasco" play out time and time again since the early days of the internet. People getting mad that they couldn't use derogatory words for black people, people getting mad that they couldn't use derogatory words for Hispanic individuals, couldn't tell people to drink bleach or commit self harm, couldn't use derogatory words for gay individuals, couldn't harass female players, couldn't call people autistic or mentally disabled, et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseam. In none of those instances did the people requesting that they not be treated as something "lesser" harm the game. Yes, some players may have left when they were told they had to be nice, but good riddance - I prefer to play game with people that actually believe in treating others as equals.

Edited by Elad, 05 October 2021 - 06:48 PM.

[RickySpanish]

feeWAIVER, on 05 October 2021 - 03:20 PM, said:

That's a pretty spicy take on trans rights, bro.

Right? I should just be banned.

[Sug]

feeWAIVER, on 05 October 2021 - 03:20 PM, said:

That's a pretty spicy take on trans rights, bro.

The spicy mayo of taking a stand.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Silence helps the oppressor, not the oppressed.

Asking for silence is promoting silence. Asking for the thread to move to Off Topic... that's cool.

[RickySpanish]

Sug, on 05 October 2021 - 06:50 PM, said:

The spicy mayo of taking a stand.

I'm not taking a stand for or against "trans rights", because it is a massively complex issue absolutely not suited to text based discourse on a videogame forum. Wait is that taking a stand? I don't know what should or should not be said on the interwebs anymore. Back in my day we all just played qdm4 on dialup and fragged each other. But apparently now you must also wear your various social allegiances like badges of honour. Kind of like how all those Goth kids wore spikes and dressed the same way to be different.

Shoot. I'm definitely in trouble now. I think I made some awkward comparisons there. Sorry to everyone I offended.

[1453 R]

Man. Are we really doing this a whole second separate time? I felt like the mods gave us all a gift letting us keep the first one, normally they woulda just three-day'd us and deleted the whole thing.

Just gonna share two things here, since this thread doesn't seem to be quite as pistols-at-ten-paces as the other yet. Y'know, before it gets bombed.

1.) A buddy of mine on the DDB forums once put it perfectly: he'd like to be able to tell married-life stories about his husband and himself the same way other men tell married-life stories about their wives and themselves. Without getting the "dude, that's so gay" bit, or that "wow man, this isn't the time or the place to talk about your LGBTQ+ stuff". He's not. He just wants the same basic right that every heterosexual male takes completely for granted to tell stories from his relationship with his significant other without other people accusing him of all the **** half of y'all are accusing everybody of in this thread.

2.) I do not have the freedom to express and present myself the way I desire to within modern United States society. Were I to do so, I would face severe professional and personal repercussions, primarily losing my job and quite possibly losing my whole-*** life. Every cisgender heteronormative individual who says "y'all already got rights, the hell more rights do you need?" has no idea what rights and freedoms LGBTQ+ people do not have. I do not have the freedom to dress and present myself how I wish to do so without losing my employment and risking being beaten on the streets. I do not have the freedom to simply be addressed the way I wish to be addressed without having to fight with people over it and convince them to do so. If I do not present myself as a true blue beer-guzzling football-obsessed spouse-abusing red-blooded Murican male, I don't get to keep earning money and I may not get to keep living. Hell. ten years ago? Even just admitting I do not enjoy or appreciate being taken as male here on the Intarwebs would be enough to get me in serious trouble.

So please. It's not about convincing you you're terrible people for not Being On Our Side. It's about convincing you that the work isn't finished. There's more to do, and it'd be swell if y'all stopped getting in the way, at least?

Edited by 1453 R, 05 October 2021 - 07:07 PM.

[Sug]

ScrapIron Prime, on 05 October 2021 - 06:55 PM, said:

Silence helps the oppressor, not the oppressed.

Asking for silence is promoting silence. Asking for the thread to move to Off Topic... that's cool.

If MWO was somehow analogous to, whatever the kids are watching these days....Dancing With the Stars, and something comparable to this happened I'd be like whoaaaa hey now I don't know about that...

But this is like the equivalent of someone in a D&D group showing up in a political t-shirt and making his character canvas for the the 2024 election. Like ok sure if you want to do that whatever but.... It's a small population. Surely there are better venues for that kind of thing.

RickySpanish, on 05 October 2021 - 07:02 PM, said:

Shoot. I'm definitely in trouble now. I think I made some awkward comparisons there. Sorry to everyone I offended.

Right up there with the highest of crimes you can commit in MWO: Team killing.

I sentence you to a 7 second wait time and a fine of 17,500cb.

1453 R, on 05 October 2021 - 07:05 PM, said:

entire thing

...sounds like you both know ****** people and live/work in **** places.

Edited by Sug, 05 October 2021 - 07:23 PM.

[LordNothing]

Blood Rose, on 05 October 2021 - 05:39 PM, said:

Reminds me of the 'Steps' from another board I frequent, which now has a recognition guide for Wokie infiltration attempts

>We just want X to happen so we feel more comfortable

>Okay, well X has happened but we also think that Y would be good

>Dont worry, Y wont lead to Z or T

>Well, Z happened but isnt it better? Only biggots dont like it

>T is happening and its for the good of the community, only chuds wont like it and they will leave

>Now A is happening and you cant stop it

Along with a list of the usual tactics
>Gaslighting
>Fencesitters wisdom
>Im rubber, your glue
>Only [bad guys] dont like this

their tactics look an awful lot like the very discriminations they are fighting against to begin with. and people who fall prey to these tactics are easily radicalized to the other extreme. sort of how like membership in white supremacist organizations skyrocketed in response to the blm movement. these kind of tactics only stand to make the whole situation worse, and undermine decades of actual progress. i know a simple call to reason is going to look like bigotry to one extreme and capitulation to the other, and thats the problem.

[1453 R]

To all those protesting "this isn't the right venue!" or "this isn't the time or the place!" or "why do you have to do this here?!"

Why not?

Clearly there's a need - Trans Rights and Trans Fights got a name kerfuffle and then everybody started blowing up about how much they hate this subject and how terrible it is for anyone to ever bring up trans rights anywhere people can see it. I dunno. Sounds to me like a place that could do with some awareness, and maybe thinking more about the subject and why it keeps coming up, ne?

[RickySpanish]

"If I do not present myself as a true blue beer-guzzling football-obsessed spouse-abusing red-blooded Murican male, I don't get to keep earning money and I may not get to keep living. Hell. ten years ago? Even just admitting I do not enjoy or appreciate being taken as male here on the Intarwebs would be enough to get me in serious trouble."

A couple of issues with your post here:

First and foremost it is not Football. It is American Rules Rugby and absolutely nobody else calls it Football except the yankies, who apparently do strange things like calling a game where a ball is mostly held or thrown with one's hands "Foot" ball.

Second, are you serious? Beer guzzling Football obsessed spouse abusing etc etc is just a weee bit stereotypical there m'lday don't you think? It sounds like you live in a right old dump though, if every dude there beats his wife. Have you considered joining the civilized world where most people don't do that?

And ten years ago? In 2011, telling people on the interwebs how you prefer to not be addressed as a dude wouldn't have got you in any trouble. Unless you started spamming it in all-chat. Then you'd have fallen afoul of server spam filters...

Sug, on 05 October 2021 - 07:20 PM, said:

If MWO was somehow analogous to, whatever the kids are watching these days....Dancing With the Stars, and something comparable to this happened I'd be like whoaaaa hey now I don't know about that...

But this is like the equivalent of someone in a D&D group showing up in a political t-shirt and making his character canvas for the the 2024 election. Like ok sure if you want to do that whatever but.... It's a small population. Surely there are better venues for that kind of thing.





Right up there with the highest of crimes you can commit in MWO: Team killing.

I sentence you to a 7 second wait time and a fine of 17,500cb.





...sounds like you both know ****** people and live/work in **** places.

soo that 7 second ban inflates to about 5 minutes of naughty corner time if you genuinely pour more than a few rounds into a friendly. Don't ask how I know that, but I will say that HE started it.

1453 R, on 05 October 2021 - 07:25 PM, said:

To all those protesting "this isn't the right venue!" or "this isn't the time or the place!" or "why do you have to do this here?!"

Why not?

Clearly there's a need - Trans Rights and Trans Fights got a name kerfuffle and then everybody started blowing up about how much they hate this subject and how terrible it is for anyone to ever bring up trans rights anywhere people can see it. I dunno. Sounds to me like a place that could do with some awareness, and maybe thinking more about the subject and why it keeps coming up, ne?

I *seriously* doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.

[Sug]

1453 R, on 05 October 2021 - 07:25 PM, said:

Clearly there's a need - Trans Rights and Trans Fights got a name kerfuffle and then everybody started blowing up about how much they hate this subject and how terrible it is for anyone to ever bring up trans rights anywhere people can see it. I dunno. Sounds to me like a place that could do with some awareness, and maybe thinking more about the subject and why it keeps coming up, ne?

Since no one said "What's that?" I guess they're already aware...

Sounds like you would like to debate and educate and I can think of better places for that than MWO.

That would be like trying to bring democracy to Afghanistan. Such an American thing.

Edited by Sug, 05 October 2021 - 07:45 PM.

[Ash Rose]

I kinda feel like you are all missing the forest for the trees here? I don't think MWO is a meaningful platform for education or awareness or whatever, the issue was and is: folks should be able to say trans rights or put trans in their unit names because there is no good reason not to, full stop. after the dust has settled, that seems to be the prevailing rule, so cool. Getting mad about common sense winning out is, as the kids say, cringe.

Like yeah, trans people face oppression and there are reasons why statements of support are important, sure sure, but thats not even the issue here, its completely besides the point.

[1453 R]

On the contrary Sug, Ash Rose: this is the second thread where a bunch of people have protested that Piranha simply talking about the subject at all is a violation of their core ethos that will inevitably destroy MWO and even BattleTech itself forever.

Feels like the kind of place where a little bit of reality check might be necessary, ne? Like a bit of hearing from the other end of the issue, however rare someone willing to admit to being from the other end of the issue might be in this place, might do slightly more good than finding a bunch of people who already agree with the idea and saying "hey, y'all still agree with the idea?"

[RickySpanish]

"Like trying to bring democracy to Afghanistan". Man, I like that phrase. I like it a lot. It's like playing chess with pidgeons but more current.

So what do you think, 1453 R, you going to send us poor folk who were no-shows at the airport some planes to Freedom?

Edited by RickySpanish, 05 October 2021 - 08:00 PM.

[MechWarrior5782621]

Blood Rose, on 05 October 2021 - 05:39 PM, said:

Reminds me of the 'Steps' from another board I frequent, which now has a recognition guide for Wokie infiltration attempts

>We just want X to happen so we feel more comfortable

>Okay, well X has happened but we also think that Y would be good

>Dont worry, Y wont lead to Z or T

>Well, Z happened but isnt it better? Only biggots dont like it

>T is happening and its for the good of the community, only chuds wont like it and they will leave

>Now A is happening and you cant stop it

Along with a list of the usual tactics
>Gaslighting
>Fencesitters wisdom
>Im rubber, your glue
>Only [bad guys] dont like this

This reads as a super-weird post that was left intentionally vague. Can you elaborate?

What, specifically, are the x,y,z,t,a in this scenario? Why use letters instead of just making your point directly?

[Ash Rose]

I genuinely don't think you are going to win hearts and minds on the robot shooting forum, like yeah, some people have some very silly fears about "the SJWs" or whoever destroying everything they know and love, and the jump to compare {Godwin's Law} with the people they literally put into camps is uh... Y I K E S, but I don't think engaging in an argument here is helping anything, speaking from my perspective as a trans fan of the game. Only saw the thread from some folks pointing and laughing at it and I made the mistake of touching the metaphorical poop.

[The6thMessenger]

Fainting Goat, on 05 October 2021 - 08:00 PM, said:

This reads as a super-weird post that was left intentionally vague. Can you elaborate?

What, specifically, are the x,y,z,t,a in this scenario? Why use letters instead of just making your point directly?

That's the point, it's intellectually vague, as we all have our own beliefs and pet causes. Everyone thinks their pet causes is the most important in the world, that's why they hold it. Imagine if everyone else started putting up Save the Amazon Forest, Save the Ughyr Muslims, Save the Animals and be Vegan.

"It's not politics, it's just basic decency" is what they basically said about trans right. Well, I could also say the same for these causes, I could just as well say "you just want to see the forest burn" to everyone that doesn't want to hear anything about the Amazon Forest, or "you just hate muslims" for the Ughyr Muslims.

No one here is saying that those causes aren't important, but this is just not the right place to talk about them so we don't really ******* care. And to frame it as we're just anti to these causes for not wanting it tainting our space for MWO is disingenuous.