125 replies to this topic

[Temporary Axis]

Groups of more than two should never have been put into the solo queue.

PGI had just fixed the group queue to 8v8, it was being actually used again and then they did this.

The competitive scene asked for the ability for a single player to opt into the group queue and PGI flipped the idea to ask for feedback on groups in the solo queue.

We shouted from the rooftops not to do it but the player base wanted the ability to have groups in there.

And now we get revisionist history lessons from mechdads about how competitive players wanted this.

You aren't happy about how high tier players play fine, but don't sit there and blame us for using the game the way you picked for us all.

YOU CHOSE THIS and if you didn't, you certainly stayed silent on it.

Now excuse me whilst I load up a mech with the ability to shoot beyond 270 meters and get called a 'sniper' for being able to aim with it /s

Edited by Temporary Axis, 22 October 2021 - 09:31 PM.

[Thorqemada]

Well, i can not think of one solo-q player that wanted that so i dont understand what your rant is about whom to blame...

[caravann]

It gets a little tedious to block a whole lance only to keep them shut up.

It's irrelevant to know how great they're at the game while shrug at defeat in annoying ways.

[Temporary Axis]

Thorqemada, on 22 October 2021 - 10:02 PM, said:

Well, i can not think of one solo-q player that wanted that so i dont understand what your rant is about whom to blame...

Here you go - https://cdn.discorda...082/unknown.png

And my 'rant' isn't hard to follow.

Competitive players are being blamed for the decisions of the greater player base.

live with your decision

Edited by Temporary Axis, 22 October 2021 - 10:20 PM.

[PocketYoda]

justcallme A S H, on 22 October 2021 - 05:08 AM, said:

As I said in the very post you quoted - go see for yourself. Go watch 200-300hrs+ a month of low tier streamers. What you are talking about simply is not accurate. It is a very, very rare occurrence and only happens in a specific situation. It is not remotely common and grossly misleading to try and claim so.

You should should know this Samial. But then you do have a history of posting a lot of things that are incredibly inaccurate/sensationalist. This is most certainly another one of those examples.

Bull.

[justcallme A S H]

Thorqemada, on 22 October 2021 - 10:02 PM, said:

Well, i can not think of one solo-q player that wanted that so i dont understand what your rant is about whom to blame...

Go back and read the original posts by Paul.

You can see how many people supported it and whom it was.

It was not the high skill players. It was a pile of casual guys who, 2-3 months later, stopped playing.

[denAirwalkerrr]

Thorqemada, on 22 October 2021 - 10:02 PM, said:

Well, i can not think of one solo-q player that wanted that so i dont understand what your rant is about whom to blame...

Newsflash: every single comp player feedback prior to this change was "well we'll just be stomping QP and people will whine so don't do that" while quite a lot of casuals were hyping Russ on twitter and forum thread about how good this change is gonna be for the game. Now it's pretty clear who was right.

Edited by denAirwalkerrr, 22 October 2021 - 10:56 PM.

[Thorqemada]

Some potato finishing lesson from a ppc - pin them down, use all edges, make it allways count:
Fast Potato Peeling 101 - YouTube

And listen wisely about the fun factor b4 in the uptalk to it...



PS: Well, at least ASH has a post critical about the merge but other Players who count themself as comp players applaud the move and MWO Comp twitters:

MWO Comp
@russ_bullock
Good to seem some positive action on MWO

Sp probably it is about the selection of quotes and to what part you make a player belong who applauded the merge and who not.

I strongly disagree that even a major minority of the Solo-Q Players wanted this happen - at best it was the part that played both Qs and that confuses the picture.

Edited by Thorqemada, 23 October 2021 - 02:16 AM.

[Davegt27]

Temporary Axis, on 22 October 2021 - 09:29 PM, said:

Groups of more than two should never have been put into the solo queue.

PGI had just fixed the group queue to 8v8, it was being actually used again and then they did this.

The competitive scene asked for the ability for a single player to opt into the group queue and PGI flipped the idea to ask for feedback on groups in the solo queue.

We shouted from the rooftops not to do it but the player base wanted the ability to have groups in there.

And now we get revisionist history lessons from mechdads about how competitive players wanted this.

You aren't happy about how high tier players play fine, but don't sit there and blame us for using the game the way you picked for us all.

YOU CHOSE THIS and if you didn't, you certainly stayed silent on it.

Now excuse me whilst I load up a mech with the ability to shoot beyond 270 meters and get called a 'sniper' for being able to aim with it /s

I was for the group of 4 being added to QP (even if I did not say anything)

some of the reasons

I world rather have a group of 4 then a bunch of sync droppers (if your going to do something be upfront about it)

my observation is the people that play together are the ones that spend money on the game (they get together and one person says hey I am buying so-n-so mech pack and the rest will most likely buy the pack also)

A group of highly skilled players dropping together hurts but its good for the game (i learned a lot from these skilled players like hit R for example)

MWO is a highly controlled game, I try not to think about it but my win loss and all my other stats are about the same as they where when I was T1 (now I am lower T4) in fact my guess is things are pretty much the same as 2014

I would say tone down the pug hate (you can't be good unless there are a lot of targets lets not chase them off)

GLHF

[Mochyn Pupur]

I have no issue whatsoever regarding 4 man+ (taking into account sync dropping) - it's great to drop with friends, chat and have a reasonable degree of coordinated fights.

Big issue is that there are more likely than not, plenty of 4 mans etc. that could drop quite happily in FP/CW against other similar groups, but they choose to dogpile on QP which was intended for solo drops (taking out of consideration the QP group pool when it was a separate bucket).

These teams choose to act in a way that discourages new or casual players by playing in this way.

Time and time again, someone will post the intro info to FP showing it to be the upper skill section or group participation, well, act on your own commentary and go play FP and leave the casual solo players to mess it up on QP and have fun, just as the team/group drops could do in FP.

Simple really

[Temporary Axis]

PeppaPig, on 23 October 2021 - 02:24 AM, said:

I have no issue whatsoever regarding 4 man+ (taking into account sync dropping) - it's great to drop with friends, chat and have a reasonable degree of coordinated fights.

Big issue is that there are more likely than not, plenty of 4 mans etc. that could drop quite happily in FP/CW against other similar groups, but they choose to dogpile on QP which was intended for solo drops (taking out of consideration the QP group pool when it was a separate bucket).

These teams choose to act in a way that discourages new or casual players by playing in this way.

Time and time again, someone will post the intro info to FP showing it to be the upper skill section or group participation, well, act on your own commentary and go play FP and leave the casual solo players to mess it up on QP and have fun, just as the team/group drops could do in FP.

Simple really

How do you propose they play the 12 hours of the day there is no FP match to play?

Also, we drop in solo queue to have fun just like any other player.

We aren't going hard mode most of the time

Edited by Temporary Axis, 23 October 2021 - 04:09 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Thorqemada, on 23 October 2021 - 01:23 AM, said:

MWO Comp twitters:

MWO Comp
@russ_bullock
Good to seem some positive action on MWO

I think you'll find Live (owner of the MWO Comp Twitter) was probably having a bit of a troll/joke with that post

Thorqemada, on 23 October 2021 - 01:23 AM, said:

PS: Well, at least ASH has a post critical about the merge but other Players who count themself as comp players applaud the move and MWO Comp twitters:

It was more than just me - I know Vx and others were also against because we all took 12 month forum holidays for posts we made in that thread - so some of those posts might have been removed due to us perhaps goin a little too far, we were vehemently against it

Edited by justcallme A S H, 23 October 2021 - 04:10 AM.

[Nesutizale]

Funny how this topic comes up every now and then.

I seam to be lucky that in T3 there are either no teams or that when they are on, then there is allways another team on the other side for balance.

For me nothing changed in the enjoyment of the game except a bit of a fartigue and the urge to play something else every now and then. Mhh maybe it gotten even a bit better. These small teams I encounter every now and then at least talk and coordinate and you just have to roll with them and have a good game. Rarely I encounter a stomp these days...well I had one in about a month? On the other hand I only play mabe 3-5 matches a day because of said change of interest so its hardly an average ^_°

I say reduce groups to 3 people and one group per side and lets move on.

[Bud Crue]

For the record, in case any one cares, you can go back and look at the original commentary on this whole mess, and it really was a few vocal players who were all for combining the queue, while the rest of us: comp, casuals and mechdads alike, who knew exactly what was going to happen.

For context, a couple of relevant threads:

https://mwomercs.com...ue-update-2020/

https://www.reddit.c...ue_update_2020/


My original view, which I still believe to be correct, was that Paul gave short shrift to anything other than the combined queue we ended up with and that the "data" he used to justify the decision was nonsensical at best (i.e., he never really considered any other alternative that the community proposed regardless of who proposed it, and he just made up a justification to combine the queues).

Edited by Bud Crue, 23 October 2021 - 04:43 AM.

[Black Caiman]

If groups were that cancerous in quickplay nobody would drop in QP and this game would be effectively dead. Clearly the vast majority of the player base either supports groups of some size in quickplay, or at least tolerates it enough to keep playing. Though player count has oscillated some recently it is still up over this time last year, the developers are actively working on the game in some form or fashion, and people are dumping money into mechpacks and what not. So to me this indicates their is a large group of players who are satisfied enough with how things are going. If groups in solo queue was SUCH a bad idea its unlikely this game would have survived. Even some of the detractors in this post have dropped hundreds of times in recent months. Which tells me either you dont really mind groups THAT much, or youre gluttons for punishment...

Edited by Black Caiman, 23 October 2021 - 09:30 AM.

[Nesutizale]

Makes me wonder, who belongs to the group of people that say groups are bad. I kinda have the feeling that they mostly belong to the top tier players rather then the T3 and blow.

Should that be true it wouldn't make me wonder that they dislike it. The higher the overall skillset the more likely it is that a group can change the outcome. Better skilled players overall means less room for errors and better coordinated teams win more.
While in the lower tiers, where more errors are made, the groups have less of an drastical impact.

That is at least my impression.

[Black Caiman]

Nesutizale, on 23 October 2021 - 10:25 AM, said:

Makes me wonder, who belongs to the group of people that say groups are bad. I kinda have the feeling that they mostly belong to the top tier players rather then the T3 and blow.

Should that be true it wouldn't make me wonder that they dislike it. The higher the overall skillset the more likely it is that a group can change the outcome. Better skilled players overall means less room for errors and better coordinated teams win more.
While in the lower tiers, where more errors are made, the groups have less of an drastical impact.

That is at least my impression.

I think that has a lot to do with it, and I know Ash and probably some others have mentioned it in earlier posts. I think a big part of it is also that the difference between the top and bottom players in Tier 2, 3, 4, or 5 is not that vast. However, the difference between the top and bottom players in Tier 1 is significant. Players whose average match score is 275ish are going to be in Tier 1, but so are players whose average match score is 400+. The difference in skill between these groups of players is huge, and when a group of 400+ players group up they are damn near unstoppable because the likelihood of the opposing team having enough talent to stop them is unlikely. On top of that T1 players are likely the most competitive minded of the tiers, so that coupled with the lopsided nature of some T1 groups, leads to saltiness about said groups.

[Fragga ONE]

Ye teams can murder QP cos you hit tier 3 then get matched with _{JGx and TTneckBeard on red team and a 4 group of CDU on your team. Adious mechchorrious. Seen it too many times so now I only play blonde Lights while streaking. GL GF}

[Nesutizale]

Fragga ONE, on 23 October 2021 - 12:18 PM, said:

Ye teams can murder QP cos you hit tier 3 then get matched with _{JGx and TTneckBeard on red team and a 4 group of CDU on your team. Adious mechchorrious. Seen it too many times so now I only play blonde Lights while streaking. GL GF}

I have the feeling that depends heavly on the time you play at, cause I hardly ever see anyone I recognize. So my experiance with teamplay in T3 is very different. Beside that even if I have that once or twiice a day I don't care at all. In all the matches I played lately there was only one real stomp. Most of the time it was around 8/12 matches or even closer. I concider that good.

I remeber the times when 1/12 was the standart match result for me. That was before groups and new matchmaking where introduced. After that my games became much closer. Again T3 and outside of the top players time. Frankly we need a system that differantiates more the closer people are to the top players.

Like you are top 10 of T1 you can't group up and matchmaking has to be more strickt with how to place those people inside the teams. A T1 with average score of ~300 isn't the same as one with 400+.
Guess that would mean more waiting times for higher tier players so that is why its most likely not implemented.

[pattonesque]

Sometimes you get a JGx four-man and it’s a challenge to play against, oftentimes though you get a four-man of dudes just out to have a good time and it’s much less of a problem