pbiggz, on 17 November 2021 - 06:50 AM, said:
There is no earthly realm in which this is a viable strategy for balancing a real time competitive pvp shooter game. It doesn't matter if that's how it was in your favourite books from when you were 20.
Not "Books". "Games". It's been that way in every game, even including MWO on Clan Wave 1, Day 1. Clans were full-strength on day-1, from what I'm told (I showed up a couple years later), and were rightly feared, until they were nerfed into the ground because of it.
The phenomenon of "that 'mech is freaking terrifying" does exist in MWO, it's just attributed to the "wrong" 'mechs. Things like Annihilators, Fleas, and Piranhas get that reaction, when that's always been supposed to be Atlases, hence the Death's Head.
Hobbles v, on 17 November 2021 - 08:22 AM, said:
This isnt accurate. Gauss & PPCs are equal base range both techs. Typical 10% range quirk does give IS advantage in that regard. Clan weapons are lighter, allowing for bigger targetting computers.
Clan have superior range on ERLL and AC2s. A typical 10% range quirk only brings the IS erll to 4metre advantage. Thats so tiny the tonnage defference for a better targetting computer will counter it.
Clan enjoys a visibility advantage through greater ecm availability among good sniping mechs.
IClan PPCs are more forgiving due to the splash. Splash can hit that cherry red panel you missed.
IS enjoys a burst damage advantage with ERLL only due to higher ghost heat limit and lower duration.
Even with Durability quirks a typical Clan snipers CT will be tougher than the XL side torso of the IS mech they are fighting. Meaning kill shots on clans take more damage. Although the lack of durability quirks on clan mechs do make them easier to Maim. Also if IS goes LFE to counter this, they take a hit in fire power and cooling.
Clans are hardly stuck with limited high mounts.
Blood asps, hunchback IIs, Hellbringers, Kodiaks, Riflemen, Timberwolf A shoulder, Madcat mk2, Night Gyrs. Half of those can bring thier own ECM too.
There is no IS mech that can jump snipe as well as a summoner or Vapor Eagle. Closest you get is a grasshopper or the jumping warhammer, or Shadowhawk.
Overall it is extremely evenly matched. The state of balance in sniping Clan vs IS is the best I've ever seen it. I think the larger balance concern is the power of sniping versus other strategies.
So the question was "What do Clanners complain about?" I responded with the answer to that question. I made no argument as to whether it was accurate or not, just that that's what Clan players complain about. There's a definite meta to IS ERLL, however, because the last several Faction Matches I've played, the OpFor has been running almost nothing but, with the sole exception of the match on Terra Therma, where they ran MRMs almost exclusively.
The 'mechs seen executing these sniping Metas are Stalkers and Battlemasters as the vast majority, with other chassis thrown in occasionally, as able. (I mention the ANH-1P because it was a surprise until I sat and thought about it, and realized the hardpoint locations made it a more obvious choice than I first believed).
Accurate or not, it "feels" like this is the case: any time Clan ERLL goes up against IS ERLL, Clan ERLL loses the trade. Who knows? Maybe we're just a bunch of old farts who can't aim, but I don't think we're THAT bad at it. Not when trading at 1500m range from fairly stationary poke-points. Hence "this is what Clans complain about".
Valdarion Silarius, on 17 November 2021 - 11:59 AM, said:
That's an odd comparison. In terms of dedicated fire support mechs with high hardpoints the IS have the Blackjack, Jagermech and the IS Rifleman.
The clans only have the Rifleman IIC. I wouldn't throw in the Hellbringer in the same category since the Hellbringer can run ECM while the Rifleman IIC cannot. Arguably with the Virago or other variant can run an ERLL loadout can be played as a fire support mech, but so can many other mechs from both the IS/Clan that were not designed as fire support mechs thus this category can be expanded even more.
I will argue that if you take the Rifleman IIC out of it's long range fire support role, it completely falls flat and sucks. Ofc you can do meme builds like 2xLBX 20 builds but there are much better mechs that can do that role in the same weight bracket. The Hellbringer has ECM and speed on it's side so the light armor is justified. I would like some slight armor buffs on the Rifleman IIC's arms, but I digress from going off topic.
Yes, but IS Blackjacks, Jagermechs, and especially Riflemen, aren't seen in FP very often. Stalkers and Battlemasters are seen a LOT. The folks I run with don't seem to use Riflemen IIC as much, but they do prefer Hellbringers. They also prefer Linebackers and Orion IICs for in-your-face brawling, so that is the "experience" to which I can speak. Whether it works or not is yet to be seen, and the meta-hounds will naturally jump all over that one. All I can report is that our personal experience with ERLL sniping invariably ends in favor of the IS team.
4
Shift the goalposts a little.
