629 replies to this topic

[pattonesque]

assault mechs have had their pitch angle increased so there are very few who are completely defenseless against ankle-biting lights anymore

[Black Caiman]

DaZur, on 29 November 2021 - 06:16 AM, said:

Meh... I have to begrudgingly admit I used to be in the "Lights are too OP" camp.

That said, as my proficiencies in piloting mechs, understanding the limits of my mechs and those I opposed... I found myself less vexed by lights. Even going so far as seeking out and engaging lights with heavier mechs.

For me the biggest fix was understanding and maximizing engagements ranges of my weapons and knowing how to work angles on lights when they start nipping on your ankles.

That said, I've not yet found a fix for being wolf-packed by lights other than avoiding getting caught alone.

This is probably the case for most players. Early on MANY things can "vex" new players or even veteran players who have refused to learn from past mistakes. Things like lights, sniper, ECM mechs, stealth mechs, etc can overwhelm newer players, but by learning from your mistakes and advancing your skills these issues can be mitigated drastically. A skilled player in a light mech (looking at you Chortles, GoodTry, PolyCat, etc, etc) will ALWAYS be a thorn in your side, but these pilots are few and far between. Most light pilots have pretty glaring weaknesses in their game that can be exploited to eliminate them. Packs of lights will also always be difficult, but so is a group of assaults grenading you with overwhelming firepower. The key to this is try not to be alone unless you REALLY know what youre doing.

[chaosshade2638]

when Solaris was popular (lol) light mechs were a nightmare. The trick was not playing their game. Normally an Atlas would lose to a Piranha, but if the Piranha was startled by the first salvo then the Atlas could win. Whenever I was up against lights, I always told them, "I'm not playing your game, come to me." then I'd wait at the start in a spot where my back was against the wall.

Also, walk backward in a circle, due to the way twisting and mobility works, you can keep just ahead of a light's firing arc.

Edited by chaosshade2638, 29 November 2021 - 08:33 AM.

[Hobbles v]

Right in the face of an assault is about the only place a light can truely threaten assaults 1v1 anywhere beyond 100m its basically suicide for a light to be in front of an assault. Heck even at the feet of an assault is still like that for the light its just harder for the assault to land the hit.

[Curccu]

Hobbles v, on 29 November 2021 - 08:52 AM, said:

Right in the face of an assault is about the only place a light can truely threaten assaults 1v1 anywhere beyond 100m its basically suicide for a light to be in front of an assault. Heck even at the feet of an assault is still like that for the light its just harder for the assault to land the hit.

100% depends on loadouts of both mechs.

[ScrapIron Prime]

chaosshade2638, on 29 November 2021 - 08:32 AM, said:

when Solaris was popular (lol) light mechs were a nightmare. The trick was not playing their game. Normally an Atlas would lose to a Piranha…

Really? This was normal? Is there season data that supports this?

[Verilligo]

MPhoenix, on 28 November 2021 - 10:15 PM, said:

Bumping a friend already does collision damage and while you may not like it physics says that yeah, run in to a friend or foe with enough acceleration versus a higher mass then yes you just might explode.

Physics does not say this. The physics of OUR world says this. You need to make that distinction because many, many elements of physics that exist in our world have been suspended in the interest of even allowing the universe of Battletech to exist at all. Several further elements were then disabled beyond that original set in the interest of improving the gameplay experience and balance. This is not just a matter of lack of developer time, this was done intentionally and specifically.

[chaosshade2638]

ScrapIron Prime, on 29 November 2021 - 09:24 AM, said:

Really? This was normal? Is there season data that supports this?

Atlas and Piranha are in the same division (D1 I think) so they could run up and face-hump an Atlas. If you didn't flinch at the first salvo (Piranha) you could win every time. As an Atlas I never met anyone who wanted to weather the first salvo, so I could just wait them out and rip them apart with heavy weapons while they played the peeking game.

[MPhoenix]

Okay, let's try this again S L O W L Y since some are having difficulty grasping the concept.

This.. is.. not.. about.. lights.. being .. op,.. this.. is.. about.. the .. lack.. of.. physics.. modeling.. and.. no.. contact.. damage.. from.. impact..

If I need to state that any more simply for anyone still not grasping it I'm going to need crayons and finger paints.

Besides, while I stand by my thought that physics and impact/collision damage needs to be improved, as has been pointed out the developer resources simply do not exist.

So beyond expressing a desire to see kamikaze Cicadas and a Mauler clothes-lining a Wolfhound the point is moot anyway.

[MrMadguy]

Yeah, it actually happened with me in one of recent matches. I was in almost fresh Fafnir (yellow armor) on Canyon. I was a little bit far from my team. This way I was able to snipe enemies, that leaded to us winning this match. But last man standing on enemy team was some MLX. He attacked my team and started to run away. Strait towards my direction. I decided, that I would finish it. Yeah... If only he wouldn't just two-shot my ST within just 3 seconds and run away.

[MPhoenix]

Verilligo, on 29 November 2021 - 09:45 AM, said:

Physics does not say this. The physics of OUR world says this. You need to make that distinction because many, many elements of physics that exist in our world have been suspended in the interest of even allowing the universe of Battletech to exist at all. Several further elements were then disabled beyond that original set in the interest of improving the gameplay experience and balance. This is not just a matter of lack of developer time, this was done intentionally and specifically.

Okay, so this I get and it can in part explain why running a 20 ton mech in to a 100 ton mech at 145kph does not result in fragmentation.

Now i want to know the how of it, low grade energy field absorbing kinetic energy, magnetic repulsion between mechs, space magic?

Kidding about the space magic...

[pbiggz]

MrMadguy, on 29 November 2021 - 10:10 AM, said:

Yeah, it actually happened with me in one of recent matches. I was in almost fresh Fafnir (yellow armor) on Canyon. I was a little bit far from my team. This way I was able to snipe enemies, that leaded to us winning this match. But last man standing on enemy team was some MLX. He attacked my team and started to run away. Strait towards my direction. I decided, that I would finish it. Yeah... If only he wouldn't just two-shot my ST within just 3 seconds and run away.

You got footage of this crime? Or are you just gonna expect us to believe you, in a sniper, couldn't pick off a mist lynx when you had a firing angle on it.

[John Bronco]

Why kid about space magic? It's pretty much how everything works in BT. If it made sense, well, it would no longer be BT.

[martian]

MrMadguy, on 29 November 2021 - 10:10 AM, said:

Yeah, it actually happened with me in one of recent matches. I was in almost fresh Fafnir (yellow armor) on Canyon. I was a little bit far from my team. This way I was able to snipe enemies, that leaded to us winning this match. But last man standing on enemy team was some MLX. He attacked my team and started to run away. Strait towards my direction. I decided, that I would finish it. Yeah... If only he wouldn't just two-shot my ST within just 3 seconds and run away.

That is interesting.

Fresh Fafnir's side torso has 42 points of structure and 100 points of armor, usually some 90-95 points of that amount facing front. Okay, you were missing a few points of armor.

I would like to see Mist Lynx that can melt some 130 points of armor+structure in two accurate alpha strikes ... in 3 seconds.

[MPhoenix]

John Bronco, on 29 November 2021 - 10:19 AM, said:

Why kid about space magic? It's pretty much how everything works in BT. If it made sense, well, it would no longer be BT.

Who's kidding!?!

I've got the book 'Space Magic for Dummies' and am halfway though building the special headdress.

[YueFei]

MPhoenix, on 29 November 2021 - 10:13 AM, said:

Okay, so this I get and it can in part explain why running a 20 ton mech in to a 100 ton mech at 145kph does not result in fragmentation.

Now i want to know the how of it, low grade energy field absorbing kinetic energy, magnetic repulsion between mechs, space magic?

Kidding about the space magic...

Well, since a real-life 20th-century 21-ton unarmored Super Hornet can impact the deck at 40kph vertically (repeatedly) with no damage, I don't see why the make-believe armored and hardened 20-ton machines we pretend to drive 1,000+ years in the future can't handle a 145kph impact without disintegrating. The mechs aren't rigid bodies, and can flex and bend on impact.

Mind you, there is collision damage in MWO, it just isn't a catastrophic amount of damage in a single collision.

[CFC Conky]

@OP,

Ok, we get that your post was not a 'lights are op' rant, but to be fair, you did say this...

MPhoenix, on 28 November 2021 - 08:03 PM, said:

...

A 20 ton mech can take down a fresh 100 ton mech simple by running around it firing dinky weapons forever. Okay, it's a viable tactic for damage but to be able to destroy a fresh mech is nonsense.

...

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 29 November 2021 - 10:45 AM.

[MPhoenix]

YueFei, on 29 November 2021 - 10:37 AM, said:

Well, since a real-life 20th-century 21-ton unarmored Super Hornet can impact the deck at 40kph vertically (repeatedly) with no damage, I don't see why the make-believe armored and hardened 20-ton machines we pretend to drive 1,000+ years in the future can't handle a 145kph impact without disintegrating. The mechs aren't rigid bodies, and can flex and bend on impact.

Mind you, there is collision damage in MWO, it just isn't a catastrophic amount of damage in a single collision.

That Super Hornet has a set of seriously over-engineered rear landing gear designed to flex and take the impact. The impact is also not vertical, between decent and forward motion it's more of a lateral deflection.

So if we're making the comparison of rear landing gear impact absorption to armor impact absorption that means there has to be some form of sprung suspension for the armor plates.

Does this mean IS mechs use leaf springs and sealed shock absorbers and Clan mechs us coil overs and struts?


Side note: If not for politics and back room deals the F-14 Super Tomcat would have kicked the Super Hornet's butt and taken it's lunch money.

[RickySpanish]

chaosshade2638, on 29 November 2021 - 08:32 AM, said:

when Solaris was popular (lol) light mechs were a nightmare. The trick was not playing their game. Normally an Atlas would lose to a Piranha, but if the Piranha was startled by the first salvo then the Atlas could win. Whenever I was up against lights, I always told them, "I'm not playing your game, come to me." then I'd wait at the start in a spot where my back was against the wall.

Also, walk backward in a circle, due to the way twisting and mobility works, you can keep just ahead of a light's firing arc.

I played Solaris S1 in a Warhawk up to about 1700 rating. Never, ever had a problem with Lights. Actually never had a problem with much in that 'Mech, but certainly not with Lights. I think in all my S7 games across the divisions I might have lost to a Light once? Seriously, they were the easiest class to beat.

[ThreeStooges]

Oh good it's an only 20t lights are op thread. My 35t and 25t and 30t lights are safe from being nerfed into Jenner status of play-ability.