167 replies to this topic

[GuardDogg]

justcallme A S H, on 07 December 2021 - 02:02 AM, said:

If they have the best KDRs, WLRs, Match Scores etc - how are they not, the best?

Funny how it has been fixed and there is less whining. You quite literally have confirmed it yourself.

Yes, it is been told, how the PSR works, by many. And it is a dirty system. The cancel culture got their wish, because it has been destroyed. People will talk how bad it is. Like the statues been torn down, movies, and songs not to be played, I and many others will say things about it. It is worse now. The Tier system needs to be removed, or replaced with other system. It is and can be embarrassing. I been in T1, and it is a roller coaster. Not real enough for formations, tactical to have fun. T1, is Just a 4-6 min round, then the, "look at my match score and look at theirs, who did better and who didn't" and all of a sudden you are like a pro because you are in T1. Like C'mon. Like one person wrote. Just ignore, hide the tier and have fun. And that is what I am also trying to say here and it is working.

Edited by GuardDogg, 07 December 2021 - 09:33 AM.

[pattonesque]

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 09:29 AM, said:

Yes, it is been told, how the PSR works, by many. And it is a dirty system. The cancel culture got their wish, because it has been destroyed. People will talk how bad it is. Like the statues been torn down, movies, and songs not to be played, I and many others will say things about it. It is worse now.

incredible

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 09:29 AM, said:

The Tier system needs to be removed, or replaced with other system. It is and can be embarrassing. I been in T1, and it is a roller coaster. Not real enough for formations, tactical to have fun. T1, is Just a 4-6 min round, then the, "look at my match score and look at theirs, who did better and who didn't" and all of a sudden you are like a pro because you are in T1. Like C'mon. Like one person wrote. Just ignore, hide the tier and have fun. And that is what I am also trying to say here and it is working.

I'm assuming you were in T1 back when it was a bar players could reach simply by playing a lot, which meant the gap in skill was even more significant than it is now. So you have folks like yourself, who lose more often than they win and die way more often than they get kills (which, to be clear, is nothing to be ashamed of) going up against dudes who are in this game's competitive scene. I mean, no wonder the experience was a bad one for you.

I have no idea what you're talking about by "formations." This isn't a Total War game. Good groups will take/hold positions which are most advantageous to their particular builds/playstyles. Anything beyond that is just insisting on the importance of things which have no importance in this game.

The main issue right now is that even though T1 is a small (10%) percentage of the playerbase, it does have a certain skill disparity. Less so than it used to, from my understanding, but it'd be like if in Overwatch you had Diamond players in the same matchmaking bucket as folks in the top 500. This unfortunately will remain something of an issue until the playerbase increases dramatically.

[Valdarion Silarius]

I do feel that match making is extremely flawed especially grouping up in duo's. One of my friends who is colorblind is floating around in Tier 4 (pretty close to 3) while I am always jumping around in high tier 3 low tier 2. With his handicap he struggles with adapting and while I have gave him more than enough sufficient advice to improve, he does not have the same skill or experience as I. The games we grouped up with were absolutely horrible for both of us. Out of all the 7 games we played yesterday we only won 1.

Meanwhile while we solo que he does better with his tier bracket, while I work better in my tier group due to the willingness of the team to coordinate and communicate properly. With the low population of MW:O, I have to feel that there are alot of smurfs sitting in T4/T5. His experience was so miserable to the point where he was discussing uninstalling MW:O. I think PGI needs to absolutely rework the system to better accommodate higher tier players who want to play with their lower tier friends. It's obvious that getting curb stomped every game will discourage anyone from having fun. Perhaps make a system where high tier players can field only stock mechs/trial mechs as a soft nerf so that low tier players have a fighting chance. Other than that, I'm not entirely sure how you can balance the matchmaking system with the low population of the game.

Edited by Valdarion Silarius, 07 December 2021 - 09:59 AM.

[Saved By The Bell]

When I get too many stomps - I do separate from team. That means, nobody helps you, so you need to play very good and solve problems alone. Hide, search, shoot, die with at least good effort.

Quite refreshing.

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 07 December 2021 - 10:04 AM.

[GuardDogg]

Valdarion Silarius, on 07 December 2021 - 09:58 AM, said:

I do feel that match making is extremely flawed especially grouping up in duo's. One of my friends who is colorblind is floating around in Tier 4 (pretty close to 3) while I am always jumping around in high tier 3 low tier 2. With his handicap he struggles with adapting and while I have gave him more than enough sufficient advice to improve, he does not have the same skill or experience as I. The games we grouped up with were absolutely horrible for both of us. Out of all the 7 games we played yesterday we only won 1.

Meanwhile while we solo que he does better with his tier bracket, while I work better in my tier group due to the willingness of the team to coordinate and communicate properly. With the low population of MW:O, I have to feel that there are alot of smurfs sitting in T4/T5. His experience was so miserable to the point where he was discussing uninstalling MW:O. I think PGI needs to absolutely rework the system to better accommodate higher tier players who want to play with their lower tier friends. It's obvious that getting curb stomped every game will discourage anyone from having fun. Perhaps make a system where high tier players can field only stock mechs/trial mechs as a soft nerf so that low tier players have a fighting chance. Other than that, I'm not entirely sure how you can balance the matchmaking system with the low population of the game.

Exactly. What I been saying. Not the best system. One step forward, two steps back.

Edited by GuardDogg, 07 December 2021 - 10:32 AM.

[martian]

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 01:16 AM, said:

****************************************************************************************************************************
-T3, T2, can be way better pilots than T1 (and even T4).

I do not know how exactly you define "better pilots", but I doubt about it.

Do T4 players have better piloting skills? Or better gunnery skills? Better situational awareness? Better knowledge of the MWO maps? Better positioning?

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 01:16 AM, said:

Many have regretted being in T1, and decided to go down. Their have been pilots who are in T1, made new accounts, start in T5 and have way more fun than T1 pilots. Their is good pilots even in T5 with another created account (more than 1).

If there really was some highly skilled post-reset T1 player who created alt account in T5 .. then he left T5 quickly because of his extraordinary Match Scores.

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 01:16 AM, said:

- Their is way better tactics than T1 has. No one in T1 can do better tactics than other Tiers. I have done many, but in T1, you can not. More freedom in other Tiers.

First, how can you know? Have you been in T1 since the last year's PSR reset?

Second, in lower Tiers you can do some stupid things and survive because your opponents do not know how to punish you for your mistake, BUT this is really not a case of "better tactics".

Perhaps you could describe some example of such "way better tactics Than T1 has", as it is practised in lower Tiers.

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 01:16 AM, said:

- People stated the system was flawed, and it is worse now. A dirty system. Their is a formula showing how it is done. But in simpler math. It is one step forward, Two steps back. So if you are in a losing team and a down arrow. You go down two. On a winning side, up arrow, you go up. Meaning you go down faster than moving up.

And you can always use this simple formula after each MWO game to calculate your personal PSR gain or loss. Nothing secret here. Hell, you can calculate PSR gain or loss for all other 23 players that dropped in the game. It is absolutely transparent process.

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 01:16 AM, said:

- T1 are not the best. Many now are even in T1, and not the best. I have not seen any good tactical maneuvers (toying with the enemy).

First, how can you know? Have you been in T1 since the last year's PSR reset?

Second, how do you imagine tactical maneuver "toying with the enemy"?

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 01:16 AM, said:

You can get ahead with pre-mades but not much when a lone wolf.

I drop only as a lone wolf and yet, I have made it to Tier 1.

And if I can make it - so can you.

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 01:16 AM, said:

More nascaring in T1.

First, how can you know? Have you been in T1 since the last year's PSR reset?

Second, there are days when I see more nascaring and there are other days with less nascaring.

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 01:16 AM, said:

Their is a lot missing in MWO, from MW4. But this is MWO, not MW4.

Well, yes?

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 01:16 AM, said:

- Before learn from hardcores. Like when training in Martial arts. You will be against higher/black belts. Lesson learned. Even in DCS. You may know how to bomb and avoid sams, Radar, but dogfighting from a pro, can learn your mistakes. But actual pilots will always be way better. Because they flew the real things, and served. MW4 didn't even have stats, ranks.

Well, you can not learn from elite players in MWO? Ask them for advice on various topics, watch them when they are streaming their games, ask them to take you in their group, etc?

Oh, you can do all these things ...

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 01:16 AM, said:

- The cancel culture started before the reset. So, they got their wish. Their was a lot of whining. Do not hear, read much whining anymore. It still exists. Look at the graph (results) now. It does give the bird.

"Cancel culture in MWO" two years ago? What are you talking about?

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 01:16 AM, said:

- Some players will break through, but not a easy task. I see the struggle they go through. And the feeling of them struggling is a burden, hoping they do not uninstall.

If they are skilled, they can leave T5 in a week or two, depending on how often they play.

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 01:16 AM, said:

My younger day, employed in a restaurant. Told by the boss/owners. We want people to come back. You want people to have fun, and to tell others, to increase business. You want the best atmosphere. Clean, personality, fun, people making friends. The way PGI, and some of the salty players are chasing away others players, even the stats "Look at your stats...you suck" can be a embarrassment.

When some new player asks for help in the "New Player Help" section or in the "General Discussion" section of the forums, there is always some friendly skilled MWO player who offers his help.

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 01:16 AM, said:

Myself I like to have a fun, happy atmosphere and hoping others would as well.. The system was so called "bad" before, now it is worse.

You mean that old pre-reset PSR system with skill-unbalanced teams (because so many players of very different skill levels were in one big Tier 1)?

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 01:16 AM, said:

Tiers is wrong for MWO. You only play in a 15 min round. You get destroyed, that is it. Yet, the rounds last most of the time 4 mins. Lucky if you get a full 15 min round, and those do not come around often.

The point is to learn from your mistakes, so you can survive longer.

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 01:16 AM, said:

The player base is dropping, and I have seen that scale the other day, amount of players. Looks like MWO is on it's last breaths (struggling).

The situation is not ideal, but the number of players is higher than it was in early 2020.

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 01:16 AM, said:

No stats. Only rank you get is when on campaigns, training.

Many online games have ranks of various types.

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 01:16 AM, said:

What is wrong with MWO community, PGI? You want people to stay, and tell others, not chase away.

The MWO community is not that bad as you are describing it.

[GuardDogg]

^
I am sure that other FPS are more brutal than MWO. Heck, children even play those and the whining, yelling on the headsets. Never hear children play MWO. And if you do, it is very, very rare. Mostly adults play, for one, we are familiar with battletech. But can hear, read some children in adult bodies on MWO, on the headsets (yelling, screaming, war of words). And they enjoy the salt, and name calling. All I can say in all. Tiers is not important, and being in T1, is not the best place. You will hear the salt for sure. Just enjoy and you can have more fun in other tiers, than T1. Just because in T1, they are not the best. Just lucky to get there, and with help from friends.

And DSC doesn't have a stats. Go look for DCS, you will not find anything. Nothing to be embarrassed about. Beginners fly along with the pro's, even actual pilots.

Edited by GuardDogg, 07 December 2021 - 11:10 AM.

[DaZur]

The only tiers that are important are 1 and 5... Failure to gait the two from each other is player retention suicide.

The rest can and do cross over dependent upon the potential pool of players at any given time...

The effective difference between a high 4 and a low 3 tier is unperceivable. Same can be said of most all middling tier.

I stopped giving two rats about tiers a while ago and just enjoy playing for the sake of playing...

[martian]

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 10:54 AM, said:

Just because in T1, they are not the best. Just lucky to get there, and with help from friends.

You are entitled to your opinion.

Edited by martian, 07 December 2021 - 11:06 AM.

[Bassault]

GuardDogg, on 06 December 2021 - 07:11 PM, said:

Tiers are suppose to fit for the player. Not a rank. T1 are not the best. They just happen to get to T1, because the way they pilot. They are out for numbers. While other tiers like 2-3-4 are for tactical, mind games or just for fun. Just like going out with your kind of people. If players state T1 are to be the best or so called pro players, then it is like a ranking system. Then for sure PGI will need to change think from tiers to ranking.

** Note **
DCS doesn't have a stats. So beginner pilots are actually flying along actual pilots. Everyone is treated the same in DSC. I have encountered real F-16, F-18, that flew in Iraq, Afghanistan, and they will teach you a lesson or two. Oh yeah.

I was hoping MWO will do the same. But that is unlikely. Their is no real battlemechs. But the thought of no stats, Tiers, taught to be the best, would be awesome.

I'm in tier 1 and I play exclusively Atlases just for fun... does that mean I'm a sweaty tryhard going for "the numbers" or does it just mean I play better than the rest of the players?

[Curccu]

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 10:54 AM, said:

All I can say in all. Tiers is not important, and being in T1, is not the best place. You will hear the salt for sure. Just enjoy and you can have more fun in other tiers, than T1. Just because in T1, they are not the best. Just lucky to get there, and with help from friends.

Yes it has been said multiple times in this thread by many people, it doesn't matter what tier you are.
but for some reason you are the one with loads of claims without any factual proof/evidence that lower tier players are better at this game than T1, which is insane

Yes tier1 is not the best place FOR EVERYONE, for those that can compete with other T1 it is others.. no it's not the best place, that's the point of matchmaker.

And once again you haven't been in T1 since reset. Old (before reset) tier1 included 60% of playerbase.
Luck even outs with hundreds of games, you don't get into tier 1 with few lucky games.

[Curccu]

I LOVE ATLASES, on 07 December 2021 - 11:17 AM, said:

I'm in tier 1 and I play exclusively Atlases just for fun... does that mean I'm a sweaty tryhard going for "the numbers" or does it just mean I play better than the rest of the players?

Yes, us hardcore tryhard tier1 crybaby haxors with infinite (positive) luck and friends cannot play for anything else than stats and shaming everyone not T1, fun is not allowed.

[Horseman]

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 09:29 AM, said:

The cancel culture got their wish, because it has been destroyed.

Cancel culture is a bunch of toxic narcissists who, under pretense of being moral authorities, have bullied multiple victims into suicide over trivial (and, on some occasions, entirely nonexistent) offenses.
That garbage has no relation to what you're trying to equate it with, and trying to use this term for the response of MWO's playerbase to PGI's fuckups is just ignorant on your part.

Quote

The Tier system needs to be removed,

So that again you can get dropped into a match with two dozen top 10% players and get curbstomped or ridiculed because you are not capable of performing on the same level? Because that would be the result.

Quote

or replaced with other system.

Sure, if you have a proposal of a system that will hold up better then by all means share it - but if you don't, then all you're saying is that the grass is greener on the other side, and that's just an unconstructive cop-out.

Quote

Not real enough for formations, tactical to have fun.

You're confusing pretend military roleplay (a pretentious form of self-sabotage) with situation-appropriate formations and tactics (which happen quite often if the team is willing to coordinate even a little).

Quote

all of a sudden you are like a pro because you are in T1

"All of a sudden", after dozens if not hundreds of games where the've proven they can apply their knowledge of the game - maps, mechanics, builds - teamwork and pure mechanical skills better than majority of the playerbase.

pattonesque, on 07 December 2021 - 09:47 AM, said:

I'm assuming you were in T1 back when it was a bar players could reach simply by playing a lot, which meant the gap in skill was even more significant than it is now.

Correct. See https://mwomercs.com...-assault-class/ for the original discussion where that went on.

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 10:54 AM, said:

All I can say in all. Tiers is not important, and being in T1, is not the best place.

Which is why you were claiming PGI "owes" you your T1 back earlier in this thread? I mean, really...

Curccu, on 07 December 2021 - 11:18 AM, said:

Yes it has been said multiple times in this thread by many people, it doesn't matter what tier you are.
but for some reason you are the one with loads of claims without any factual proof/evidence that lower tier players are better at this game than T1, which is insane

Honestly, it's just sour grapes on his part. He found he can't grind his way to T1 as easily as before, so he tries to dismiss it as not deserving of his magnificent persona.

Edited by Horseman, 07 December 2021 - 11:25 AM.

[Abisha]

Horseman, on 07 December 2021 - 11:23 AM, said:

Cancel culture is a bunch of toxic narcissists who, under pretense of being moral authorities, have bullied multiple victims into suicide over trivial (and, on some occasions, entirely nonexistent) offenses.
That garbage has no relation to what you're trying to equate it with, and trying to use this term for the response of MWO's playerbase to PGI's fuckups is just ignorant on your part.
So that again you can get dropped into a match with two dozen top 10% players and get curbstomped or ridiculed because you are not capable of performing on the same level? Because that would be the result.
Sure, if you have a proposal of a system that will hold up better then by all means share it - but if you don't, then all you're saying is that the grass is greener on the other side, and that's just an unconstructive cop-out.
You're confusing pretend military roleplay (a pretentious form of self-sabotage) with situation-appropriate formations and tactics (which happen quite often if the team is willing to coordinate even a little).
"All of a sudden", after dozens if not hundreds of games where the've proven they can apply their knowledge of the game - maps, mechanics, builds - teamwork and pure mechanical skills better than majority of the playerbase.
Correct. See https://mwomercs.com...-assault-class/ for the original discussion where that went on.
Which is why you were claiming PGI "owes" you your T1 back earlier in this thread? I mean, really...

Honestly, it's just sour grapes on his part. He found he can't grind his way to T1 as easily as before, so he tries to dismiss it as not deserving of his magnificent persona.

I think it's a bad idea to remove tiers from the game imagine you are pit against 2 Tier 1 players while you in a group of T3 players your statistics will suffer for it and it's not even your fault.

their is a very good reason why Tier players are separated it's overall not a good experience for all evolved

[pattonesque]

Abisha, on 07 December 2021 - 11:28 AM, said:

I think it's a bad idea to remove tiers from the game imagine you are pit against 2 Tier 1 players while you in a group of T3 players your statistics will suffer for it and it's not even your fault.

their is a very good reason why Tier players are separated it's overall not a good experience for all evolved

it's already bad enough when like a JGx four-man goes up against a bunch of T3 dudes just out to shoot robbits and have a good time. You can imagine if they routinely faced off against some dudes just starting out

[ScrapIron Prime]

martian, on 07 December 2021 - 10:31 AM, said:

Second, in lower Tiers you can do some stupid things and survive because your opponents do not know how to punish you for your mistake, BUT this is really not a case of "better tactics".

Very much this.


Also, I really think that adding "cancel culture" to a discussion needs to be included in the list of things that make you auto-lose the debate.

[Curccu]

Abisha, on 07 December 2021 - 11:28 AM, said:

I think it's a bad idea to remove tiers from the game imagine you are pit against 2 Tier 1 players while you in a group of T3 players your statistics will suffer for it and it's not even your fault.

their is a very good reason why Tier players are separated it's overall not a good experience for all evolved

Before this game had any matchmaker I had over 10 KDR, after ELO thingy was released I dropped down to 2.74 so yeah removing tiers and matchmakers would be bad for this game.

[Bassault]

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 01:16 AM, said:

****************************************************************************************************************************

-T3, T2, can be way better pilots than T1 (and even T4). Many have regretted being in T1, and decided to go down. Their have been pilots who are in T1, made new accounts, start in T5 and have way more fun than T1 pilots. Their is good pilots even in T5 with another created account (more than 1).

- Their is way better tactics than T1 has. No one in T1 can do better tactics than other Tiers. I have done many, but in T1, you can not. More freedom in other Tiers.

- People stated the system was flawed, and it is worse now. A dirty system. Their is a formula showing how it is done. But in simpler math. It is one step forward, Two steps back. So if you are in a losing team and a down arrow. You go down two. On a winning side, up arrow, you go up. Meaning you go down faster than moving up.

- T1 are not the best. Many now are even in T1, and not the best. I have not seen any good tactical maneuvers (toying with the enemy). You can get ahead with pre-mades but not much when a lone wolf. More nascaring in T1. I have seen/read the complaints being in T1. Their is a lot missing in MWO, from MW4. But this is MWO, not MW4.

- Before learn from hardcores. Like when training in Martial arts. You will be against higher/black belts. Lesson learned. Even in DCS. You may know how to bomb and avoid sams, Radar, but dogfighting from a pro, can learn your mistakes. But actual pilots will always be way better. Because they flew the real things, and served. MW4 didn't even have stats, ranks.

So your tier 2-5 tactics are so effective that you lose more often, get less matchscore and get less kills than the tier 1s?

Edited by I LOVE ATLASES, 07 December 2021 - 12:41 PM.

[pattonesque]

yeah dude you really have to address the fact that despite your secret amazing tactics you lose way more often than you win

[GuardDogg]

I LOVE ATLASES, on 07 December 2021 - 12:36 PM, said:

So your tier 2-5 tactics are so effective that you lose more often, get less matchscore and get less kills than the tier 1s?

You are going in a circle in this thread here. Typical nascaring. Repeating and what others wrote as well. I do not need to repeat my posts.