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Hellebore Outpost First Impressions


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#21 pbiggz

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 05:44 AM

View PostMechaGnome, on 14 December 2021 - 10:19 PM, said:

Thats good thing keeps maps played and populations strong.


No it doesnt.

View PostBrom96, on 15 December 2021 - 05:31 AM, said:

JJs are essential, but the map itself is extremely cluttered, again, impeding maneuverability. You can easily try to jump out of the danger, just to land on patch of higher ground behind you, ending the game in 2 seconds due to being exposed to whole enemy team.

So far, the teams fight in the center on the narrow patch of high ground, surrounded on both flanks with high raise outcrops which usually make for head on collision between the two teams. Support to flanking movements is almost non existent due to the cover offered by the outcrops and possibility to shoot teammates in the back in tightly packed formation.

We shall see if folks improve the tactics (hopefully) and start using other parts of the map, as is the case with Canyon.

Flora is indestructible.

At least there is some cover to protect you from sight/snipers.

In summary, interesting map, but detrimental to my playstyle. Shall avoid.


Sounds like we just gotta learn the map better. Its been out for less than a day, it always takes time.

#22 Will Hawker

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 06:14 AM

I dunno if it's just me but on the upper left side of the map in the first straight canyon that ends with an arch where you can go under the platform, there's really bad invisible wall that soaks shots, I was a good way to the left of the wall when I opened up with my UAC20s but all the shots hit something invisible.

#23 Bud Crue

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 06:27 AM

Only got to play it twice last night. On one spawn the Hellbore Springs roots are obvious, and on the other side, with all of the hills right in front of the spawn, it is unrecognizable as anything other than Canyon with steeper and taller cliffs. Folks mostly went center or randomly spread out to high ground. First match ended in a nice brawl in the low ground at the center, second was a hunt for the last ERLL urban mech, who finally had to call out his own position.

I suspect this is going to be stealth mech paradise. Everyone seems to think JJ’s are going to be important here, but I was playing a Quickdraw and Linebacker with three JJ each (I think), and found that most of the time, I couldn’t get high enough to make much use of them and ended up needing to find a ramp (there are plenty) to get to where I wanted to go. I suspect the really jumpy mechs might get a nice advantage here (for positioning and poptarting) but anything with a mere 10m-30m JJ potential isn’t going to be at any greater advantage than mechs without the things.

Overall, looks to be an interesting map that seems most akin to Rubelite in layout.

#24 DaZur

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 06:31 AM

If possible, when we run into weird geometry, invisible walls, etc... please jot down the coordinates and report them to support...

I know it seems like a no brainer but we as players tend to stress maps in ways the developer and in-house testers cant. As such it's kind'a important to share these bugs so they can review and patch so that the community can enjoy the map as intended.

Just say'n... Posted Image

#25 RickySpanish

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 08:35 AM

Seems g3 spawn is more defensible, but too soon to tell. I didn't get any properly T1 matches last night so matches seemed to get rather drawn out. I was piloting the SNS Ambush and noticed that pitch angle matters greatly. The only other map where I think the importance of pitch is similar is Alpine. I like the map a lot, it adds something unique to the selection.

View PostBud Crue, on 15 December 2021 - 06:27 AM, said:

Only got to play it twice last night. On one spawn the Hellbore Springs roots are obvious, and on the other side, with all of the hills right in front of the spawn, it is unrecognizable as anything other than Canyon with steeper and taller cliffs. Folks mostly went center or randomly spread out to high ground. First match ended in a nice brawl in the low ground at the center, second was a hunt for the last ERLL urban mech, who finally had to call out his own position.

I suspect this is going to be stealth mech paradise. Everyone seems to think JJ’s are going to be important here, but I was playing a Quickdraw and Linebacker with three JJ each (I think), and found that most of the time, I couldn’t get high enough to make much use of them and ended up needing to find a ramp (there are plenty) to get to where I wanted to go. I suspect the really jumpy mechs might get a nice advantage here (for positioning and poptarting) but anything with a mere 10m-30m JJ potential isn’t going to be at any greater advantage than mechs without the things.

Overall, looks to be an interesting map that seems most akin to Rubelite in layout.


Jump jets are over rated, there is lots of access to the higher areas. Pitch angle though is really, really important.

Edited by RickySpanish, 15 December 2021 - 08:33 AM.


#26 1453 R

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 08:47 AM

Only got to play on it twice yesterday, and haven't had any time to do Testing Grounds exploration. But overall? Highly favorable first impression. I love the over-the-top verticality and how complex the map seems. There's tons and tons of little sublayers and hideyholes, so many different ways and places for engagements to happen. The aesthetic is fantastic, and at least early on it's super exciting and invigorating to be on a map nobody really knows where combat can happen anywhere. I hate the fact that it's gonna be reduced to the same tired, stale nonsense as every other map within a month or two...but I think this is a very nice entry in the rotation, yeah.

#27 ScrapIron Prime

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 08:49 AM

View PostDaZur, on 15 December 2021 - 06:31 AM, said:

If possible, when we run into weird geometry, invisible walls, etc... please jot down the coordinates and report them to support...

I know it seems like a no brainer but we as players tend to stress maps in ways the developer and in-house testers cant. As such it's kind'a important to share these bugs so they can review and patch so that the community can enjoy the map as intended.

Just say'n... Posted Image


This. Post up in Map Feedback when you do. I already screen shotted some out of bounds errors for them.

#28 Saved By The Bell

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 09:20 AM

Very hard.

You cant move easily.

Yeah it is a wall under platform. I was shooting a Grasshopper with Flea lasers from above and hit him, and his laser alfas just disappear between us 3-4 times.

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 15 December 2021 - 09:22 AM.


#29 ShiverMeRivets

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 09:29 AM

View PostBud Crue, on 15 December 2021 - 06:27 AM, said:



I suspect this is going to be stealth mech paradise. Everyone seems to think JJ’s are going to be important here, but I was playing a Quickdraw and Linebacker with three JJ each (I think), and found that most of the time, I couldn’t get high enough to make much use of them and ended up needing to find a ramp (there are plenty) to get to where I wanted to go. I suspect the really jumpy mechs might get a nice advantage here (for positioning and poptarting) but anything with a mere 10m-30m JJ potential isn’t going to be at any greater advantage than mechs without the things.


View PostRickySpanish, on 15 December 2021 - 08:35 AM, said:


Jump jets are over rated, there is lots of access to the higher areas. Pitch angle though is really, really important.

JJ are not only for jumping up, they are also for jumping forward from playform to platform like super mario. Without any JJs even a narrow gap is a dead end or a downward drop. Mechs that can do 80+ kph benefit significantly even from 1 JJ (the Quickdraw that I tried) for platform jumping. Of course if you fall down you will not jump back up on to anything.

#30 Hobbles v

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 09:34 AM

Only played maybe 6 matches on it so far.

I love the map purely that it feels different from anything else.

So far most matches have devolved into a brawl while some have turned into three or four separate fights due to the terrain. From what I can tell long range will still find good use here with even the threat of it becoming really good once people learn the sight lines.

As for generic strategy this map has the most vertical difference between levels in some areas. Right now what seems to work best is to take the top side and slowly either Drive the enemy down to the lower levels or kill the ones that stay up. And then work your way down level by level.

The one thing I wish is that the drop zone areas were larger or more protected so that they could be used in the Faction play Rotation.
I think this map would be incredible for Faction play Conquest mode.

Also one of my teammates got stuck in the terrain last night. I'll submit a video clip of the location when I get a chance to edit my stream video

Edited by Hobbles v, 15 December 2021 - 09:35 AM.


#31 Kotis77

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 11:09 AM

I was wrong. First impresion seems like PGI can do map that suits almost every playstyle. Still gotta wait for metagame on this map, but feels good. Well done PGI/Francios

#32 MPhoenix

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 11:39 AM

I ended up playing it a few times last night, it was the only map I played as everyone but me seems to have voted for it.

Visually it's pretty, lots cool scenery.

From a game play standpoint it's.. busy. Too busy.
it really feels like they took a bunch of good ideas and tried to make them all work together in one map.

Between so many different levels, terrain features and flora it seems easy to get 'lost' or separated easily from your team.
Over time and with familiarity this might lessen a bit but with so many similar textures and features and in places such limited visual references beyond those similar textures I can easily see the battle cry becoming
'WTH am I??'

#33 Blood Rose

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 11:53 AM

View PostShiverMeRivets, on 15 December 2021 - 12:31 AM, said:

If you are slow and without jump jets on this map you have a big problem. Most slopes you cannot climb, so once you fall down there is no coming up again, unless you go hiking in long winding trails. Some falls will place you in a position from which to return to the fight will take long minutes. Most matches I played ended in a chaotic brawl at the bottom with mechs from both teams randomly dropping from the fight above down into the mosh pit like autumn leaves.

Because without JJ there is no way to crisscross the map, I found myself in one match watching the fight from afar with a few hundred meters deep ravine between me and the team on the opposing ridge, outside of my weapons range and without any clear path to join up. It is very easy to remove yourself from the match by splitting away from the main zerg and taking a wrong turn / falling into a ravine. I suppose this will be somewhat alleviated when the players are more familiar with the map and the special paths that allow you to climb out of the ravines - a bit like the old canyon map, but much exaggerated.

Visually the map looks pretty.


Dear gods, a map that doesnt favour gunboat assaults, this might actually be a really good thing for the game

#34 Michael Abt

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 12:38 PM

Played the map 3 times yesterday.

May sound odd, but I do like it that we have a bit of a different color theme going, new vibes.

What is great is that the map has indeed a lot of vertical differences, with different pathways. That offers lots of opportunities for ambushes from various angles.

Skirmish could be a pita. Good luck finding that last stealth light. ^^


From that first im pression i do like the map. It offers each playstyle its spot, without putting to much emphasis on one of it.

Edited by Michael Abt, 15 December 2021 - 12:55 PM.


#35 pbiggz

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 12:47 PM

View PostKotis77, on 15 December 2021 - 11:09 AM, said:

I was wrong. First impresion seems like PGI can do map that suits almost every playstyle. Still gotta wait for metagame on this map, but feels good. Well done PGI/Francios


Glad you're enjoying it. Sorry we got heated.

#36 Maddermax

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 04:31 PM

A few more games in, still looking strong. I took my quad-RAC nightstar out to play, and while it lacked jump jets or speed, the arm mounted weaponry meant that pitch wasn’t an issue. It worked out very well, when I didn’t drop.

I took out my Shadowcat in another game, and found it can jump bottom Center to the top in one go, and none of the canyons were an issue, making it amazingly mobile on the map. It’s well set up in that you can’t snipe from the outside ring to the centre fight because of well placed terrain, buuuuuut you can snipe those on the outer edge of the inner ring, who are trying to snipe into the centre. What it means is that snipers are vulnerable to being flanked by other snipers, but snipers can’t dominate the centre from the edge of the map. It’s a nice sort of thing.

Also, towards the end of one match, a friend was complaining of being shot by something from behind while on one of the centre bridges. I went up to investigate, and there’s a tiny little walkway along a wall, which a light can walk along, which leads to a small ledge protected from most sides - interesting little hidey hole.

Edited by Maddermax, 15 December 2021 - 04:34 PM.


#37 crazytimes

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 04:53 PM

It's okay. Played it nearly every single match so far and sick of it, but at least it's something new once the rotation settles down.

Fast mechs seem to get stuck on lots of random spots like ledges and corners that they should be able to breeze past. Can also get wedged in random spots trying to jump jet, although I've managed to wriggle out of them all eventually.

It's new content at least, but the gameplay doesn't seem super new player friendly. There's lots of ways to die without having any idea what's shooting you, can't see that inspiring new players to stick around.

#38 ThreeStooges

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 06:23 PM

Meh. Two times both on dom mode. first match was over in seconds AS WE CAN"T SEE THE DOM CIRCLE on the minimap. Match timed out in seconds without a single friendly mech near or in the where-is-it-**** circle. I and three other mechs won the second match in a long drawing out slow peek and reposition battle. Would be a great map if you could RECOLOR the dom circle.

Like my last sentence says you can't read the same color on the same back ground color.

#39 Mr Nice Mech

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 06:50 PM

I don't care for it so far. The color scheme is alright, but is overused. There is simply too much purple everywhere. Small trees are not destructible, grass is popping above the ground and over hillsides. I have to assume that there are invisible walls galore if the decorations are so badly implemented.

I had one good scrap in a canyon in a 3 on 3, with everyone just wandering around lost. Had a peak, peak, peak, peak-fest that was boooooring. Died while wandering around lost. I don't get a sense of flow on this map, just a disjointed mishmash of peaks and valleys.

For now, this sits at the bottom of the pile with Alpine Peaks and the absolutely awful Frozen City.

#40 JC Daxion

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 07:12 PM

Edit.. I re-posted a constructive post,, Sorry for ranting.

Edited by JC Daxion, 18 December 2021 - 09:14 AM.






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