122 replies to this topic

[GuardDogg]

Well, I hold my points, (not just the PSR alone) in top post. MWO is half done, and this is list is half of it. Wow...poor Horseman. Proven my point of toxicity in the forums. Have fun guys.

Edited by GuardDogg, 28 December 2021 - 12:09 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

feeWAIVER, on 28 December 2021 - 07:01 AM, said:

I can only speak for myself, but these forums, and the people who dwell here, are the #1 reason I stopped logging into the game.

Well the forums don't stop most of the 19,000 active users from playing, nor do most of them even peek in here. Not that Steam or Reddit are any better off, but still. Good hunting to you, wherever you're playing.

[Castigatus]

GuardDogg, on 28 December 2021 - 12:00 PM, said:

Well, I hold my points, (not just the PSR alone) in top post. MWO is half done, and this is list is half of it. Wow...poor Horseman. Proven my point of toxicity in the forums. Have fun guys.

Translation - "wah why arent people automatically agreeing with me just because I want them to"

Also, you don't get to say "my first post is still correct" when we have almost 4 pages of people repeatedly pointing out that it never was in the first place. You're not in tier 1 anymore because to put it very simply you are not a good enough player to be there and never were, you simply benefited from the matchmakers old habit of letting people increase their tier just by playing tons of games. You keep claiming that things should be a certain way because of lore when that is not in the slightest bit true, even if we strictly adhered to IP lore which MWO very definitely does not, and then you lash out at anyone and everyone who tells you you're wrong

You don't understand the game half as much as you think you do, you insist on being needlessly antagonistic to everybody who doesn't immediately agree with everything you say, and you will never ever admit you were wrong about anything. To be completely honest if you are actually serious about leaving and not just making big flounce announcements to pretend you're better than the rest of us, then shut up, pack up your **** and simply leave because this Forum will honestly be a better place without you in it.

[feeWAIVER]

ScrapIron Prime, on 28 December 2021 - 12:12 PM, said:

Well the forums don't stop most of the 19,000 active users from playing, nor do most of them even peek in here. Not that Steam or Reddit are any better off, but still. Good hunting to you, wherever you're playing.

I'm not convinced there are 19,000 players, but maybe if I continue seeing the same 4 guys multi-quote spamming and arguing semantics about car part recalls for another 3 pages, I might be swayed. *fingers crossed*

[Bud Crue]

GuardDogg, on 28 December 2021 - 12:00 PM, said:

Well, I hold my points, (not just the PSR alone) in top post. MWO is half done, and this is list is half of it. Wow...poor Horseman. Proven my point of toxicity in the forums. Have fun guys.

Your calling Horseman "toxic" has as much validity as Mechagnome asserting that I "attack" people with a different opinion. These words do not mean what you think they mean.

I'll give you one thing though, MWO is kinda-sorta "half done" at least from the perspective of the communities outsized expectations for a game that was marketed from day one by Russ as something that was being developed based on a "minimally viable" basis solely to finance the making of a different game (MW5...also, insert Transverse joke here). Hell, I'll gladly back you up if you want to claim PGI lied/misrepresented in regard to their various claims for CW development back in the day. But for some reason, you seem to think the game's failures/short-comings are somehow a problem for and by the community. That just doesn't make sense. No one is making you play this "half done" game that you incessantly complain about. No one here cares about your tier. No one here even cares how you do in a match unless you are actively hurting the game play of those on your team. No one here is asking you for anything, other than that you argue in good faith and support your assertions, but that is apparently too much for you. Instead you make unsupported and nonsensical accusations (I still am boggled by the housewives thing) and call people names. I'll take the so-called toxic folks over that sort of nonsense any day.

[PocketYoda]

martian, on 28 December 2021 - 11:12 AM, said:

Sure, but the new system is better than the old system because the old PSR let a significant part of the player base move to Tier 1, simply by the virtue of playing a lot of games - which is something what the OP refuses to understand.

I prefer this system over the old exp system.. To be fair i think if i really put my mind to it i could get to mid tier 3 maybe higher if i used the same overpowered mechs every match forever.. and i don't want that personally, i like using different mechs.

The old system had me in tier 2 and was still pushing me up to tier 1.. when i finally quit back then, i hated it, it was the opposite of what i consider fun in those tiers and i was way out of what i consider my skill levels..

Tier 4 and 5 might be full of newbs and bad players but its a lot more fun to play in with a lot more freedom.

Edited by Nomad Tech, 28 December 2021 - 05:51 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Nomad Tech, on 28 December 2021 - 05:49 PM, said:

Tier 4 and 5 might be full of newbs and bad players but its a lot more fun to play in with a lot more freedom.

meaning that you don’t want to push your skills and want easy games.

Even folks like me, teetering as I am between T2 and T3 because I run generalist or fun builds, don’t belong in T4 and T5 queues. As a example, I logged in on my alt account tonight to get the Xmas bonus. I haven’t used an alt in maybe 5 years, so it’s T5. I did one match in a trial mech to get the reward, and then spent the cBills to rebuild the old Banshee 3M I had there into my favorite lulz mech, Mister Peeps.

I ran Mister Peeps for 5 matches, got top score each time and cleared 1000 damage 3 out of 5. In a freaking Banshee, a lulz build with nothing but PPC and LPPC.

That’s not right. That’s WHY the tier system exists, because there are far better pilots than me capable of real farming. If I’m decent enough to keep poking my head up into T2, then I should stay there and leave the lower Tier folks to their matches.

[Horseman]

martian, on 28 December 2021 - 11:12 AM, said:

Sure, but the new system is better than the old system because the old PSR let a significant part of the player base move to Tier 1, simply by the virtue of playing a lot of games - which is something what the OP refuses to understand.

Yep, that much is true.

GuardDogg, on 28 December 2021 - 12:00 PM, said:

Well, I hold my points, (not just the PSR alone) in top post.

Including where you pretend arm lock/unlock doesn't exist? Do you want a video of it in action or something?
Including where you complain about players as if they were part of the product?
Including where you pretend your personal feature request are features PGI was somehow mandated to provide?
LOL

[martian]

Nomad Tech, on 28 December 2021 - 05:49 PM, said:

I prefer this system over the old exp system.. To be fair i think if i really put my mind to it i could get to mid tier 3 maybe higher if i used the same overpowered mechs every match forever.. and i don't want that personally, i like using different mechs.

I moved to Tier 1 when using mostly my favourite light and medium 'Mechs, with some heavy 'Mechs thrown in.

You do not have to use "the same overpowered mechs every match forever".

Nomad Tech, on 28 December 2021 - 05:49 PM, said:

The old system had me in tier 2 and was still pushing me up to tier 1.. when i finally quit back then, i hated it, it was the opposite of what i consider fun in those tiers and i was way out of what i consider my skill levels..

And this is why PGI changed the system in 2020.

Nomad Tech, on 28 December 2021 - 05:49 PM, said:

Tier 4 and 5 might be full of newbs and bad players but its a lot more fun to play in with a lot more freedom.

Higher Tiers have a lot of fun and freedom too.

[Corbantu]

The title of this post is funny, I'd describe this game as having potential. Which isn't really a compliment when you consider how old it is. Regardless I am enjoying it.

[PlzDie]

Bud Crue, on 28 December 2021 - 03:56 PM, said:

I'll give you one thing though, MWO is kinda-sorta "half done" at least from the perspective of the communities outsized expectations for a game that was marketed from day one by Russ as something that was being developed based on a "minimally viable" basis solely to finance the making of a different game (MW5...also, insert Transverse joke here).

I don't remember this game being pushed as a minimum viable from day one? That statement came later, I think it was during the Transverse episode. I am pretty sure a lot less founders would have handed over money if the intent was minimum viable. I don't care much for that whole founders and PGI lied saga, it is water under the bridge. I still play the game on and off, and I am having fun for the most part.

[martian]

Corbantu, on 29 December 2021 - 12:31 AM, said:

The title of this post is funny, I'd describe this game as having potential. Which isn't really a compliment when you consider how old it is. Regardless I am enjoying it.

No matter what the OP says, MWO still offers a lot of fun.

[GuardDogg]

Why do some have to be A-holes in here (forums) and create salt? Why is it difficult to believe that MWO is broken, unfinished? What are these people afraid of? The truth? Only those are against the truth come in here, state nothing is wrong. Yeah, MWO can be fun. Is it okay to play an unfinished game? It is okay to embarrass others, even stomp. 12-0 is awesome, or 12-4, or yet 5-12. Makes you feel great. Doing 600 dmg score and get a down arrow, is great, because three other players did higher in match score. Like nothing is wrong. Game types have objectives, but pointless. Just go center, or yet nascar. Lights take out assault mechs. The assault fires many ac-20s (hits), but the light survives. 12 firepower does better than 250. Best game ever.

Edited by GuardDogg, 29 December 2021 - 02:22 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Still displaying a lack of fundamental understanding...

[Castigatus]

GuardDogg, on 29 December 2021 - 02:21 AM, said:

Why do some have to be A-holes in here (forums) and create salt? Why is it difficult to believe that MWO is broken, unfinished? What are these people afraid of? The truth? Only those are against the truth come in here, state nothing is wrong. Yeah, MWO can be fun. Is it okay to play an unfinished game? It is okay to embarrass others, even stomp. 12-0 is awesome, or 12-4, or yet 5-12. Makes you feel great. Doing 600 dmg score and get a down arrow, is great, because three other players did higher in match score. Like nothing is wrong. Game types have objectives, but pointless. Just go center, or yet nascar. Lights take out assault mechs. The assault fires many ac-20s (hits), but the light survives. 12 firepower does better than 250. Best game ever.

Pretty rich of you to try and complain about people being ******** when you've done nothing but rage and throw insults whenever anyone showed you that you were wrong.

Why is it difficult for you to believe that you might actually be wrong?

That you don't understand anywhere near as much as you think you do?

But most importantly why haven't you left yet, as you've repeatedly claimed you were going to?

If you hate the game that much and are so certain it's broken, why are you even still here rather than finding a game you do enjoy?

[Bud Crue]

PlzDie, on 29 December 2021 - 12:42 AM, said:

I don't remember this game being pushed as a minimum viable from day one? That statement came later, I think it was during the Transverse episode. I am pretty sure a lot less founders would have handed over money if the intent was minimum viable. I don't care much for that whole founders and PGI lied saga, it is water under the bridge. I still play the game on and off, and I am having fun for the most part.

Not to get us too far off topic (as if) I didn't find the interview from Russ from back then, just the one from IGP in 2012 (also: heaven forbid we make the assertion that IGP and PGI were just aspects of a shell game) where they specifically referred to the planned MWO product as one being developed on an MVP basis: https://venturebeat....rview/view-all/

I know there is at least one out there with Russ as well, from around the same time, where he talked about it as well. This sticks in my head because back in early 2012 when I discovered that MWO was going to be a thing, I heard that it would be "minimally viable", and knowing nothing of game development or the implications of an MVP model, I chose to not throw money at PGI's founder's program because I just assumed "minimal viability" meant crap, and didn't give it another look until 2015 at the recommendation of a friend. Some folks may not consider 2012 "from day one", but my point was that the MVP aspect was known before the founders program started.

[Horseman]

martian, on 28 December 2021 - 11:12 AM, said:

Sure, but the new system is better than the old system because the old PSR let a significant part of the player base move to Tier 1, simply by the virtue of playing a lot of games - which is something what the OP refuses to understand.

Yep.

GuardDogg, on 29 December 2021 - 02:21 AM, said:

Why do some have to be A-holes in here (forums) and create salt?

That is a question we've been asking about you since your rants started years ago.

Quote

Why is it difficult to believe that MWO is broken, unfinished? What are these people afraid of? The truth? Only those are against the truth come in here, state nothing is wrong.

We're not deluded enough to believe PGI has any control over how the players play the game.
We're not ignorant enough to miss basic gameplay features.
We're not arrogant enough to believe PGI cares about our personal feature requests or demands that the game conforms to tabletop in any manner, or that removing matchmaking features that exist to protect you from being constantly stomped is a good idea.
We're not entitled enough to believe reverting PSR to an objectively worse implementation to stroke one person's ego at the cost of making the matchmaking worse would improve the game for anyone, yourself and ourselves included.

And no, we don't claim there's nothing wrong - that's a strawman on your part. There's plenty of actual problems with the game that you are unable to see - some of which were meant to be addressed by the very same balance changes you ridiculed as unnecessary.

Quote

Yeah, MWO can be fun. Is it okay to play an unfinished game?

Play or leave, your choice. Ah right, you already left. Twice. What are you still doing here, again?

Quote

It is okay to embarrass others, even stomp.

When we fight in the game, we fight to win with the expectation that our opponents will do the same.
What are you expecting, that if we somehow get to 6-0 we start throwing the match to make our opponents feel better? That's patronizing, demeaning and entirely against the Code of Conduct.
This is a game - sometimes we win, sometimes we lose, any notion of feeling "embarassed" over losing should be channeled into identifying the mistakes (personal and team-wide) that led to the loss so that you can avoid them in the future.

Quote

12-0 is awesome, or 12-4, or yet 5-12. Makes you feel great.

Nobody argues that 12-0 is a good match. That's a strawman on your part.
4 to 12 and 5 to 12 are far from unusual, as the match begins to snowball after one of the teams' numbers start to dip.

Quote

Doing 600 dmg score and get a down arrow, is great, because three other players did higher in match score.

It's extremely unlikely you're getting a down arrow when you're performing above average in the match, and if you are - it's extremely unlikely it's by any significant amount. There's a calculator you can use to figure out what kind of PSR change everyone in the match got based on their score and team.

Quote

Game types have objectives, but pointless.

Incorrect. Teams which ignore objectives routinely lose by them even if they manage to kill most (or, in Conquest, all) of the enemy team.

Quote

Just go center, or yet nascar. Lights take out assault mechs. The assault fires many ac-20s (hits), but the light survives.

Sounds like the state of the game in your client and on the server (where hit detection is actually handled) did not agree with each other. It's known to happen in online action games.
And, of course, a lot depends on where those hits actually impacted, which exact light mech it was and how much outside optimal range you were.
Even a PIR-2 - the flimsiest light mech in the game - gets 28 HP of combined armor and structure on one leg, provided its' pilot did not strip any armor, and can improve that to 36 HP if fully maxing armor and structure upgrades in the skill tree.
An Urbanmech can reach an effective 70 HP in the same location, enabling it to take several successive AC20 hits in succession.
And, you know, there's a reason for this. The armor and structure values have been doubled years ago because a bunch of bad players kept complaining they died too easily.

Edited by Horseman, 29 December 2021 - 04:47 AM.

[Ignatius Audene]

Mwo is just an arena shooter. Get used to it. For f2p there is actually quite a lot of content. More is and was never realistic in such a niche theme.

The rest of your rant is rly just misunderstanding of key elements.
Objectives not scoring high enough. Sure but hard to judge and ms score adjustments are a system wide check not just2 volumes. And when dont want people to get too much ms because of f1. It is a shooter. Go shoot mechs. Sure u might have won the one conquest because the 1min cap but rly hard for ms to differentiate usefull and idiot behaviour.

U did 600 dmg in a farm match. Wow. U should get a award... Current mm is nearly 0 sum. And even in this rare edge scenario u lost prob 1 point of psr... Again best result we can get without major rebuild of the system which is ******** on a niche game.

Lights killing assaults... sure. One player beats one player. This is not TT!!!!! But an arena shooter. And pgi was right to make all classes able to beat each other! (Lights still worst class in each in every statistic)

Wonky hit reg can happen in every game. In relation for the niche game pgi servers are quite good. Even major AAA like apex and stuff sometimes have probs here. And post state rewind is doing a rly good job and compensating the biggest flaws. So prob just to high mouse speed.

Stomps are rly not a result of bad mm but result of perma death and full active mecha even if heavily damaged. Even in comp rly. close matches often end in a "stomp" because of snowball effect. In higher tiers they get more frequent because players get better in using early game red teams faults.

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 29 December 2021 - 04:11 AM.

[martian]

GuardDogg, on 28 December 2021 - 12:00 PM, said:

Well, I hold my points, (not just the PSR alone) in top post.

Of course you hold your points ... because you are ignoring everything else.

GuardDogg, on 28 December 2021 - 12:00 PM, said:

MWO is half done, and this is list is half of it.

And your list is filled with the half-truths and false statements.

GuardDogg, on 28 December 2021 - 12:00 PM, said:

Wow...poor Horseman. Proven my point of toxicity in the forums.

We know. Everybody, who disagrees with your claims, is "toxic".

GuardDogg, on 28 December 2021 - 12:00 PM, said:

Have fun guys.

Do not worry about us, we have fun.

Currently I enjoy deploying in my new advanced Clan OmniMech Sun Spider Hero "Ambush" on the new map Hellebore Outpost.



Fun game.



I can not even remember when was the last time when I experienced classical nascaring on this map.

[PlzDie]

Bud Crue, on 29 December 2021 - 03:57 AM, said:

Not to get us too far off topic (as if) I didn't find the interview from Russ from back then, just the one from IGP in 2012 (also: heaven forbid we make the assertion that IGP and PGI were just aspects of a shell game) where they specifically referred to the planned MWO product as one being developed on an MVP basis: https://venturebeat....rview/view-all/

I know there is at least one out there with Russ as well, from around the same time, where he talked about it as well. This sticks in my head because back in early 2012 when I discovered that MWO was going to be a thing, I heard that it would be "minimally viable", and knowing nothing of game development or the implications of an MVP model, I chose to not throw money at PGI's founder's program because I just assumed "minimal viability" meant crap, and didn't give it another look until 2015 at the recommendation of a friend. Some folks may not consider 2012 "from day one", but my point was that the MVP aspect was known before the founders program started.

Thanks TIL something.