122 replies to this topic

[ScrapIron Prime]

GuardDogg, on 29 December 2021 - 02:21 AM, said:

Why do some have to be A-holes in here (forums) and create salt?

I for one am not creating salt, I'm just disagreeing with you. The salt is a byproduct.

GuardDogg, on 29 December 2021 - 02:21 AM, said:

Why is it difficult to believe that MWO is broken, unfinished? What are these people afraid of? The truth? Only those are against the truth come in here, state nothing is wrong. Yeah, MWO can be fun. Is it okay to play an unfinished game?

Oh we know this full well. 2012-2014 was the land of many promises from PGI. So many features they wanted to add. We got Faction Play, and despite some events it wasn't all that. Still, we had a blast with units and 12v12 match ups.

Then PGI got stars in its eyes for E-Sports, because that's where the money was. So they stopped working on campaign modes and other deep features for Faction Play and instead gave us Solaris 7. That didn't pan out so well.

By this point the game was nearing 8 years old and didn't have the player base of something like EVE... precisely because they didn't keep enriching Faction Play into something deeper. And the industry doesn't pour money into an old game, that's not The Way. So they made Mechwarrior 5, and into IT they put a lot of the campaign style features that they'd promised for MWO.

The Truth of it... and this has been pointed out multiple times... MWO is a first person shooter. That's it. We know this, but what we're not doing is whining about it. We enjoy the FPS we have, and folks are contributing how they can to make tweaks and adjustments to keep the game afloat. (Thanks Cauldron, thanks Francois!) The balance passes and matchmaker haven't been perfect, but folks are working on them, and that's great. The quirk passes alone, particularly the torso yaw and pitch have been worth their weight in gold, allowing assault mechs to more easily engage light mechs and taking much of the heat off of THAT particular issue!

It is what it is. I'm sorry you had a bad match, I'm sorry a light mech killed you, I'm sorry one of your heartfelt desires never made it into the game engine.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 29 December 2021 - 07:39 AM.

[GuardDogg]

Horseman, on 28 December 2021 - 11:21 PM, said:

Yep, that much is true.

Including where you pretend arm lock/unlock doesn't exist? Do you want a video of it in action or something?
Including where you complain about players as if they were part of the product?
Including where you pretend your personal feature request are features PGI was somehow mandated to provide?
LOL

Unlock/Lock arms do exist, and never said it did not. Although in cockpit view, looking left/right, the arm will not point in that direction. This was in MW4, and was a savior. People twist their torso's to avoid being hit in CT. This feature that was in MW4, can do good in MWO. Oh, but wait. MWO is not Battletech. It is a FPS..

Edited by GuardDogg, 29 December 2021 - 10:36 AM.

[GuardDogg]

ScrapIron Prime, on 29 December 2021 - 07:39 AM, said:

I for one am not creating salt, I'm just disagreeing with you. The salt is a byproduct.



Oh we know this full well. 2012-2014 was the land of many promises from PGI. So many features they wanted to add. We got Faction Play, and despite some events it wasn't all that. Still, we had a blast with units and 12v12 match ups.

Then PGI got stars in its eyes for E-Sports, because that's where the money was. So they stopped working on campaign modes and other deep features for Faction Play and instead gave us Solaris 7. That didn't pan out so well.

By this point the game was nearing 8 years old and didn't have the player base of something like EVE... precisely because they didn't keep enriching Faction Play into something deeper. And the industry doesn't pour money into an old game, that's not The Way. So they made Mechwarrior 5, and into IT they put a lot of the campaign style features that they'd promised for MWO.

The Truth of it... and this has been pointed out multiple times... MWO is a first person shooter. That's it. We know this, but what we're not doing is whining about it. We enjoy the FPS we have, and folks are contributing how they can to make tweaks and adjustments to keep the game afloat. (Thanks Cauldron, thanks Francois!) The balance passes and matchmaker haven't been perfect, but folks are working on them, and that's great. The quirk passes alone, particularly the torso yaw and pitch have been worth their weight in gold, allowing assault mechs to more easily engage light mechs and taking much of the heat off of THAT particular issue!

It is what it is. I'm sorry you had a bad match, I'm sorry a light mech killed you, I'm sorry one of your heartfelt desires never made it into the game engine.

Finally someone who agrees, and making full sense with out being a, a-hole about MWO. I write, hoping to increase population, and for those who struggle. Save MWO, not kill it. But the state it is in, will. And some salty people help on it. That needs to be removed, even in forums. The stats are embarrassing will some bring it up. I hate it, do not like when people do, even on others who couldn't care. Most of the time, I wished stats didn't exist. Could play without it. Just play. Commanding awards would help on avoiding remove Nascar, not just changing maps, or making new ones. Dislike the PSR, tiers. May be bad then, but it is still bad. I do see the bar, go down faster when on a losing round, and doing 600 dmg, and low match, because three others did 1 more, and someone was able to pull off a 800. But move up slower, when on a winning team. That is how I see the Tier bar. Those objectives are meaning less. Some will do a lot of work for team even sometimes go for objectives, and team wins, but get a down arrow for all that effort. It is like why have objectives in rounds. Just have skirmish then. MWO is missing a lot of other things as well. The salt is winning over the survival of MWO, and that is very sad. Some will say, f-this, and move to other game.

.
Just found this video, that was made over 10 years ago, before MWO. I think Piranha games made this. I remember how bad *** when it came out. But it shows how accurate Battletech is, and MWO is far from this. The hits, the fear of a Atlas, the damage, and explosion from a destroyed Mech, the Atlas backs up to avoid damage from explosion. Lots more missing. Those stuff missing, is like MWO is a girly game made for salty players, because they fear of the actual Battletech features. Goto (freeze) at 1:12, how a hit can hit torso, and the other player misses.
*
The Atlas-C Weapons, if anyone is curious.
2 PPCs
MGuns
SRM-6
*

Edited by GuardDogg, 29 December 2021 - 11:37 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

GuardDogg, on 29 December 2021 - 10:34 AM, said:

making full sense with out being a, a-hole about MWO.

I should really use that in my forum Signature.

You're incorrect about mech explosions being lore, by the way. it was introduced in, I believe, MW4. Its non-canonical, its not a thing, it just looks great in a video game.

But that video explains the mech game that was not to be. Harmony G... uh... they who shall not be named... sued Piranha's asses off over the use of the Warhammer mech and the whole production ground to a halt. Staff left, and a mechwarrior style game went away. By the time the copyright issue was litigated over a year later, they moved on to a first person shooter using the game engine we have now, not the mechwarrior title they originally intended.

We HAVE that mechwarrior title now, MW5. But MWO is not that. To that end, the only thing that really didn't fly like MWO promised was deeper faction play content and a match-maker / PSR system that had to be re-vamped to deal with dwindling population, a natural occurrence for an aging game.

[GuardDogg]

ScrapIron Prime, on 29 December 2021 - 11:25 AM, said:

I should really use that in my forum Signature.

You're incorrect about mech explosions being lore, by the way. it was introduced in, I believe, MW4. Its non-canonical, its not a thing, it just looks great in a video game.

But that video explains the mech game that was not to be. Harmony G... uh... they who shall not be named... sued Piranha's asses off over the use of the Warhammer mech and the whole production ground to a halt. Staff left, and a mechwarrior style game went away. By the time the copyright issue was litigated over a year later, they moved on to a first person shooter using the game engine we have now, not the mechwarrior title they originally intended.

We HAVE that mechwarrior title now, MW5. But MWO is not that. To that end, the only thing that really didn't fly like MWO promised was deeper faction play content and a match-maker / PSR system that had to be re-vamped to deal with dwindling population, a natural occurrence for an aging game.

LMAO...signature in MWO forums. That will be awesome.

Battletech board game had the feature, explosions from destroyed mechs, and getting damaged if to close and even MW games, even MW2, MW3 had it. Yup agree at your full post.
MWO's FPS (as it is) features takes a lot away from Battletech, and that is very sad, and frustrating. Having it easy.

Need more of your kind in the forums. Someone that people can reason with.

Edited by GuardDogg, 29 December 2021 - 11:57 AM.

[martian]

GuardDogg, on 29 December 2021 - 02:21 AM, said:

Why do some have to be A-holes in here (forums) and create salt?

What are you saying?

GuardDogg, on 28 December 2021 - 12:06 AM, said:

Hmmm, you sound angry. "Toxic", already "Pointing fingers", like a "Real House wife of MWO".

GuardDogg, on 28 December 2021 - 12:00 PM, said:

Wow...poor Horseman. Proven my point of toxicity in the forums.

---

GuardDogg, on 29 December 2021 - 02:21 AM, said:

Why is it difficult to believe that MWO is broken, unfinished? What are these people afraid of? The truth? Only those are against the truth come in here, state nothing is wrong.

Quite on the contrary, many players in this thread view MWO realistically. They are not afraid to name various MWO imperfections. Some even work behind the scene to help PGI correct some of those imperfections.

GuardDogg, on 29 December 2021 - 02:21 AM, said:

Yeah, MWO can be fun. Is it okay to play an unfinished game?

As is the case with many other software products, MWO has been getting patches of various purpose since the initial release.

By the way, your beloved MechWarrior 4 got patches after its release too, especially if we include expansion packs and 'Mech Packs.

GuardDogg, on 29 December 2021 - 02:21 AM, said:

It is okay to embarrass others, even stomp. 12-0 is awesome, or 12-4, or yet 5-12. Makes you feel great.

What do you expect us to do? That when it is 0:4 or 1:5, we power down our 'Mechs, so the enemy team can catch up?

GuardDogg, on 29 December 2021 - 02:21 AM, said:

Doing 600 dmg score and get a down arrow, is great, because three other players did higher in match score. Like nothing is wrong.

You keep posting such claims, but I can not remember seeing you post actual screenshots. Just your claims that "PSR is toxic" and "wrong".

GuardDogg, on 29 December 2021 - 02:21 AM, said:

Just go center, or yet nascar.

I have already replied you here regarding the current status of nascaring in MWO in this very thread.

Your only answer was :

GuardDogg, on 28 December 2021 - 01:03 AM, said:

Such a waste to read.

GuardDogg, on 29 December 2021 - 02:21 AM, said:

Lights take out assault mechs.

Yes, as they do in BattleTech and as they did in MechWarrior 4.

GuardDogg, on 29 December 2021 - 02:21 AM, said:

The assault fires many ac-20s (hits), but the light survives.

Typical light 'Mech in MWO can shrugg off one AC-20 hit and lose all - almost all - armor on that section. The second hit to the same spot often carries crippling effects.

For example, Flea with boosted armor and quirks has got 27 points of leg armor and 11 points of structure. The first AC-20 hit strips almost all armor, the second hit removes the leg. And legged light 'Mech is often practically dead 'Mech.

Other light 'Mechs sport better protection. The purpose was to give them a chance of survival in the current era of high-powered alpha strikes.

GuardDogg, on 29 December 2021 - 02:21 AM, said:

12 firepower does better than 250. Best game ever.

What are you talking about?

[martian]

GuardDogg, on 29 December 2021 - 10:34 AM, said:

Just found this video, that was made over 10 years ago, before MWO. I think Piranha games made this. I remember how bad *** when it came out. But it shows how accurate Battletech is, and MWO is far from this. The hits, the fear of a Atlas, the damage, and explosion from a destroyed Mech, the Atlas backs up to avoid damage from explosion. Lots more missing. Those stuff missing, is like MWO is a girly game made for salty players, because they fear of the actual Battletech features.

GuardDogg, on 29 December 2021 - 11:28 AM, said:

Battletech board game had the feature, explosions from destroyed mechs, and getting damaged if to close and even MW games, even MW2, MW3 had it.
MWO's FPS (as it is) features takes a lot away from Battletech, and that is very sad, and frustrating. Having it easy.

You are wrong. The actual BattleTech rulebooks say this:

• The basic BattleTech design rulebook very specifically says that if a 'Mech reactor is destroyed, there is no nuclear explosion. It is described in fourteen paragraphs. "it’s literally just a load of hot air" it says.
  
• The basic BattleTech gameplay rulebook says that if a 'Mech is destroyed, it is just removed from the map.

I have already told here (in this very thread) you that MechWarrior 4 with its engine explosions was an exception, not the rule. Previous MechWarrior games had no such explosions.

But of course, you ignored it as you do with things that you do not like.

[Horseman]

GuardDogg, on 29 December 2021 - 10:29 AM, said:

Unlock/Lock arms do exist, and never said it did not.

Except in your very first post in this thread, the same one you have went on record that you "holding all points" multiple times over:

GuardDogg, on 24 December 2021 - 04:55 AM, said:

GuardDogg, on 29 December 2021 - 10:29 AM, said:

Although in cockpit view, looking left/right, the arm will not point in that direction.

It will, if the mech has arm yaw (for example you can't do it in a Rifleman), if your arms are unlocked and if you use the freelook key:

Like I said before, this is exactly how the Dragon Dab technique is performed.

[Horseman]

GuardDogg, on 29 December 2021 - 10:34 AM, said:

I write, hoping to increase population, and for those who struggle. Save MWO, not kill it.

This is where I call ********. You have, at multiple points, demanded the removal of proper matchmaking, instead tossing everyone into matches at completely random. That is a change that would kill the game (or at the very least, hasten its' demise).
Likewise, at multiple points you have demanded reverting the PSR system to the objectively worse version that pitted you constantly against teams you've proven you were unable to learn anything from for years despite how enamored you are with that as an idea in DCS and tout it as a great way to learn.
If the skill gap is too large, then the less capable players won't be able to understand what they're being told, much less actually learn anything from it.

Quote

The stats are embarrassing will some bring it up.

When you or another pilot starts making unrealistic claims about their performance, their stats will be checked and if they do not match out, they will be called out on their ******** claims.
Similarly, people trying to paint themselves as authorities on playing MWO will be checked in the same manner and will be called out if they turn out to be misrepresenting their competence.
Most people are not so freakishly insecure over these numbers but use them as a way to gauge their performance.

Quote

Most of the time, I wished stats didn't exist. Could play without it. Just play.

Nobody forces you to pay attention to them and nobody pays attention to them until you start trying to paint yourself as an expert on the game.

Quote

Commanding awards would help on avoiding remove Nascar, not just changing maps, or making new ones.

Wouldn't, because that's not how human psychology works. If you introduced rewards for issuing/following commands, players would find ways to game that system for maximum return - and it would not necessarily lead to competent commanding, just a group of mechs deathballing and the commander issuing a "move here" on their position over and over.

Quote

Those objectives are meaning less. Some will do a lot of work for team even sometimes go for objectives, and team wins, but get a down arrow for all that effort. It is like why have objectives in rounds. Just have skirmish then.

Objectives are there to ensure teams can't just deathball and have to maintain some tactical awareness and pay attention to the map or they'll lose.

martian, on 29 December 2021 - 12:10 PM, said:

You are wrong. The actual BattleTech rulebooks say this:

• The basic BattleTech design rulebook very specifically says that if a 'Mech reactor is destroyed, there is no nuclear explosion. It is described in fourteen paragraphs. "it’s literally just a load of hot air" it says.
  
• The basic BattleTech gameplay rulebook says that if a 'Mech is destroyed, it is just removed from the map.

I have already told here (in this very thread) you that MechWarrior 4 with its engine explosions was an exception, not the rule. Previous MechWarrior games had no such explosions.

But of course, you ignored it as you do with things that you do not like.

IIRC, the entire idea of reactor explosions was introduced by Michael Stackpole, one of the novel writers. The closest it made to the tabletop is as an optional rule that can be used "because explosions are cool" - but as you point out, the rules canon is that reactors do not explode when containment fails (and agrees on that with real-world physics)

Edited by Horseman, 29 December 2021 - 12:39 PM.

[martian]

Horseman, on 29 December 2021 - 12:36 PM, said:

IIRC, the entire idea of reactor explosions was introduced by Michael Stackpole, one of the novel writers. The closest it made to the tabletop is as an optional rule that can be used "because explosions are cool" - but as you point out, the rules canon is that reactors do not explode when containment fails (and agrees on that with real-world physics)

Yeah, right.
And that optional rule included in the book of optional rules begins with "Explosions of 'Mech reactors are scientifically impossible".


So much for his idea that the Youtube video:

GuardDogg, on 29 December 2021 - 10:34 AM, said:

It shows how accurate Battletech is ...

[ScrapIron Prime]

Horseman, on 29 December 2021 - 12:36 PM, said:

You have, at multiple points, demanded the removal of proper matchmaking, instead tossing everyone into matches at completely random. That is a change that would kill the game (or at the very least, hasten its' demise).

I have to agree with this part. When you rise to Tier 3 and suddenly find yourself getting owned by the players the match-maker was insulating you from... if you throw out that system, people at [what is currently] Tier 5 are going to encounter the same thing and just quit.

Horseman, on 29 December 2021 - 12:36 PM, said:

IIRC, the entire idea of reactor explosions was introduced by Michael Stackpole, one of the novel writers. The closest it made to the tabletop is as an optional rule that can be used "because explosions are cool" - but as you point out, the rules canon is that reactors do not explode when containment fails (and agrees on that with real-world physics)

Hey now, let's not bring physics into this! Otherwise we have to examine why higher damage autocannons have shorter ranges or why a laser that can level a house at 800m does absolutely NOTHING at 2km or why the density of a Union class dropship is so astronomically low. Leave my space magic alone!

[Der Geisterbaer]

Horseman said:

IIRC, the entire idea of reactor explosions was introduced by Michael Stackpole, one of the novel writers.

Michael Stackpole used reactor explosions as narrative devices. Particularly when Kai Allard-Liao - with the help of his future wife Deidre Lear - caused his then driven Hatchetman to explode and thereby triggered secondary explosions from mines (for which the remote detonator had been lost / was defunct) which killed pretty much the entire Falcon Guard during the Guerilla warfare campaign on Twycross. I guess you could call it a form of Deus Ex Machina meets Mary Sue

Horseman said:

The closest it made to the tabletop is as an optional rule that can be used "because explosions are cool"

It's at least a rule from the 2008 Tactical Operations rulesbook with "advanced" / "optional" rules. I'm not sure if any of the prior advanced rulesets offered something similar and I can't be bothered to go into my cellar to dig out my old books.

Horseman said:

- but as you point out, the rules canon is that reactors do not explode when containment fails (and agrees on that with real-world physics)

Well, the Tactical Operations rules are - stricktly speaking - "canon" in the sense that they are included in an official rulesbook. However, they are not part of legal tournament rules.

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 29 December 2021 - 01:00 PM.

[GuardDogg]

Horseman, on 29 December 2021 - 12:14 PM, said:

Except in your very first post in this thread, the same one you have went on record that you "holding all points" multiple times over:


It will, if the mech has arm yaw (for example you can't do it in a Rifleman), if your arms are unlocked and if you use the freelook key:

Like I said before, this is exactly how the Dragon Dab technique is performed.

Have you fired while doing this? Tried it on a Madcat, and it didn't work. The arm was still facing forward. Most mechs I have tried this, with arm lock off/on. Either way. Fired straight ahead, instead of sideways.

[ScrapIron Prime]

GuardDogg, on 29 December 2021 - 01:00 PM, said:

Have you fired while doing this? Tried it on a Madcat, and it didn't work. The arm was still facing forward. Most mechs I have tried this, with arm lock off/on. Either way. Fired straight ahead, instead of sideways.

That sounds like a great opportunity to record a video right there. Show us, because that's counter to my experiences, and I'm guessing Horseman's, and pretty much everyone else I've watched. When I do this, the arm fires the weapon at the tiny circle.

See, your arm can only go as far as that little circle. that's as far to the right or left as it can fire. Some mechs suck at it, some can go farther to the side than they can see without the free look. Try it.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 29 December 2021 - 01:10 PM.

[pattonesque]

GuardDogg, on 29 December 2021 - 10:34 AM, said:

Just found this video, that was made over 10 years ago, before MWO. I think Piranha games made this. I remember how bad *** when it came out. But it shows how accurate Battletech is, and MWO is far from this. The hits, the fear of a Atlas, the damage, and explosion from a destroyed Mech, the Atlas backs up to avoid damage from explosion. Lots more missing. Those stuff missing, is like MWO is a girly game made for salty players, because they fear of the actual Battletech features. Goto (freeze) at 1:12, how a hit can hit torso, and the other player misses.
*
The Atlas-C Weapons, if anyone is curious.
2 PPCs
MGuns
SRM-6
*

The explosion thing has been explained to you but in what MWO are you playing that a Warhammer -- even a properly-built one -- wouldn't be afraid of a properly-built Atlas walking around a corner at point-blank range?

[GuardDogg]

ScrapIron Prime, on 29 December 2021 - 01:03 PM, said:

That sounds like a great opportunity to record a video right there. Show us, because that's counter to my experiences, and I'm guessing Horseman's, and pretty much everyone else I've watched. When I do this, the arm fires the weapon at the tiny circle.

See, your arm can only go as far as that little circle. that's as far to the right or left as it can fire. Some mechs suck at it, some can go farther to the side than they can see without the free look. Try it.

I do this a lot in MWO, but the weapon doesn't fire in that (left/right) direction. Only forward. The arms do not move even unlocked. MW4, was fun firing like this. Took great skill.

[pbiggz]

GuardDogg, on 29 December 2021 - 01:22 PM, said:

I do this a lot in MWO, but the weapon doesn't fire in that (left/right) direction. Only forward. The arms do not move even unlocked. MW4, was fun firing like this. Took great skill.

This doesn't look like a video.

[GuardDogg]

pattonesque, on 29 December 2021 - 01:21 PM, said:

The explosion thing has been explained to you but in what MWO are you playing that a Warhammer -- even a properly-built one -- wouldn't be afraid of a properly-built Atlas walking around a corner at point-blank range?

No one is afraid of Assaults in MWO. Assaults, or even heavies, are the best opportunity for a better match score. And bringing down the biggest first guy helps eliminate the larger threat. But many are very afraid of lights with evil eyes.

[pbiggz]

GuardDogg, on 29 December 2021 - 01:25 PM, said:

No one is afraid of Assaults in MWO. Assaults, or even heavies, are the best opportunity for a better match score. And bringing down the biggest first guy helps eliminate the larger threat. But many are very afraid of lights with evil eyes.

And this is extremely your opinion. You gonna back it up?

[GuardDogg]

pbiggz, on 29 December 2021 - 01:25 PM, said:

This doesn't look like a video.

No, but they person who made a post suggested a video. Where do you angry people come from? Do you hide on the grass (thinking you are in it), but not in the bushes waiting for that opportunity to engage?

Edited by GuardDogg, 29 December 2021 - 01:29 PM.