122 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

martian, on 26 December 2021 - 02:00 AM, said:

This was not "the game's biggest error". The game is just a product.

It was Russ Bullock's and Bryan Ekman's error ... and it has not been their only error, I might add.

alright, we can point fingers if you want.

[martian]

LordNothing, on 26 December 2021 - 02:01 AM, said:

alright, we can point fingers if you want.

It's not as if Russ Bullock visits this forums too often.

[PocketYoda]

There are a whole horde of issues that this game has.. Its not just developers its the community as well dragging it kicking and screaming into chaos..

[Castigatus]

Nomad Tech, on 26 December 2021 - 05:19 AM, said:

There are a whole horde of issues that this game has.. Its not just developers its the community as well dragging it kicking and screaming into chaos..

Oh, you mean the community committing the heinous crime of *checks notes* expecting someone to have coherent arguments based on provable facts rather than rambling non-sequiturs based on mistaken ideas about the game that only exist in their own heads and that for the length of time they have played they should really know by now are not true?

That community?

Because that community looks just fine to me.

[Sjorpha]

Castigatus, on 26 December 2021 - 10:02 AM, said:

That community?

Nono, certainly he means the community that...well... organises competitive events, creates faction hubs, makes 3rd party mechlab tools, does voluntary work to balance the game and helps newbies on discord and so forth. I mean THAT community is killing the game surely...

[PocketYoda]

martian, on 25 December 2021 - 11:11 PM, said:

Could anybody tell me the meaning of "Adults with "American housewife" atmosphere."?
Thanks.

Drama queens.. Like ASH, Bud and pbiggz and their jolly fanbase.. The community that constantly attack people on these forums if anyone disagrees with their sorority sisters.

Edited by Nomad Tech, 26 December 2021 - 09:08 PM.

[martian]

Nomad Tech, on 26 December 2021 - 09:07 PM, said:

Drama queens. ...

Oh, yes.

So people posting long-winded and convoluted posts filled with half-truths and outright lies?

People using fashionable buzzwords like "toxic" or "cancel culture" for things that they do not like?

People threatening repeatedly with quitting MWO?

Would you count such people as 'Drama queens'?

[Horseman]

Nomad Tech, on 26 December 2021 - 09:07 PM, said:

Drama queens.. Like ASH, Bud and pbiggz and their jolly fanbase.. The community that constantly attack people on these forums if anyone disagrees with their sorority sisters.

I recommend checking the definition
https://www.urbandic...m=Drama%20Queen
Definition the First

Spoiler

Quote

People who like to blow everything totally out of proportion because they either :

a. Want to seek attention
b. Have some emotional dysfunction and it's their duty to make life harder for everyone around them
c. Just simply can't get over it
d. Extremely miserable and insecure
e. All of the above

Definition the Second

Spoiler

Quote

A person who makes a big deal out of the tiniest things, mostly because they:
1. Have attitude problems
2. Cant get over things easily
3. Expect too much from people
4.Believe that everything should be done their way, and if not done their way, will go insane

Definition the Third

Spoiler

Quote

A person who has developed a habit of speaking, texting, acting and thinking like life is like a movie out of the Drama genre. Usually for attention or compensation for an extremely normal life with a normal amount of drama in it. Sometimes claims that there is "too much drama" and more than likely will tell someone that that "don't like drama" when they first get to know them. Might include excessive amounts of repeating periods in their sentences.

Definition the Fourth

Spoiler

Quote

Someone (male or female, young or old) who deliberately over exaggerates unimportant, small and uninteresting incidents to bring attention to themselves. These creatures struggle with functioning on an even keel, always having to create an overblown situation out of literally.....nothing. They are usually highly strung, high maintenance and genuinely believe the world revolves around them. They will often talk over others, talk louder than everyone else and dominate the conversation. They can be aggressive and spoilt and exhausting to be around for more than a short period of time. They're usually at the centre of arguments (because if they're bored they create them), and are quick to belittle others, making fun of their lives to make their own sound more exciting. How to recognise a drama queen in a crowd: the one at the centre of any drama, shouting, squealing, fainting or punching.

Now, there is someone in this thread who matches those descriptions to a T - except it's not Ash, Bud or pbiggz.

[MPhoenix]

After reading this thread, and others, I will say that the OP and Nomad Tech have a valid point.

I've been dealing with online communities for almost thirty years, for the past twenty years I've built and run an online community with a member base that dwarfs MWO by far. When you get close to 350,000 player let me know, you'll be getting close enough to worth noticing.

I've watched dozens of online communities come and go, start up and die, grow incredibly fast and die off just as fast.

The one constant has been that communities that become insular stagnate and either die a quick death or a slow death but they die all the same.

My community has a rule, it's simple but it made it grow from 27,000 to 375,000 and we add another 40-75 each day.
Be helpful to new members and be civil to all members. I don't care if you've answered a question a hundred times, if a new member asks either answer again, point them to a link where they can read the answer or hit 'Back' and move on.
This rule has allowed our community to actually supplant our State's agency overseeing our field as the source for education and information.

What I see here in this community in the few months I've been here is an attitude that is far more likely to drive away new people than it is to attract them.

What I also see is that this post is probably a waste of time and that I'll be able to set my watch to the time by the first reply's content.

Edited by MPhoenix, 27 December 2021 - 12:09 AM.

[Anjian]

martian, on 24 December 2021 - 09:38 AM, said:

Yeah, very long.


These things happen in the real life too: Volkswagen ID.3 Has Encountered 'Massive Software Problems'

"The nature of the issue is not described, but in general, it seems that the software is not complete, which means that all of the early ID.3 which were, are and will be produced (for at least a few more months) will need a software update."

"Another batch of 20,000 ID.3 (total of 30,000) could also be affected and probably will require a software upgrade but through an over-the-air update.
Combining the rumors, we would guess that the over-the-air update is part of the not yet ready software/firmware features."

Volkswagen Has Bungled The Launch Of Its Most Important Car In Decades
"Some versions will now be delivered in September, with cloud-connected versions not out until the end of the year.
It was originally supposed to launch in Europe sometime this summer.The problems are the same as they were when we first got wind in February that something might be amiss: The car’s software, which Volkswagen still hasn’t completely figured out despite throwing likely billions of dollars into electric car development."



So MWO is not so different from other software products?

I am not sure comparing a brand new product like this Volkswagen EV --- which by the way, is going to have many heads rolled here --- is valid for comparing a software product that has 8 going to 9 years in life. By next year, its already nearly 10 years this game has reached beta.

I can also say that if you screwed up a console game badly, your license to produce a game for Nintendo, Sony or XBox is likely going to be pulled out, you're not going to get development money and you will not likely produce a game for that platform ever.

[Horseman]

MPhoenix, on 27 December 2021 - 12:09 AM, said:

After reading this thread, and others, I will say that the OP and Nomad Tech have a valid point.

Which tells me that you have no context on OP's history here - nor about Nomad's recent history, for that matter.

Quote

The one constant has been that communities that become insular stagnate and either die a quick death or a slow death but they die all the same.

Which we are not. OP is crying foul because the devs won't bend over to service his demands and ego at the expense of literally everyone else, and since his repeated drama failed to get traction (or earn him pity points) he's denouncing the rest of the community as "toxic" and proclaims that the entire game should die.
What you're seeing here is not the community being insular, but the aftermath of the community being excessively tolerant and accommodating towards a bad actor.

Quote

Be helpful to new members and be civil to all members.

Including those who spread misinformation, actively misrepresent their competence to make themselves seem more credible to newcomers and demand changes that would be actively detrimental to the game, exceptionally so to the new players? There's a point where one has to draw the line.

Quote

What I see here in this community in the few months I've been here is an attitude that is far more likely to drive away new people than it is to attract them.

Not that getting stomped by Nomad when he goes seal-clubbing doesn't do much of the same.

Edited by Horseman, 27 December 2021 - 01:54 AM.

[PocketYoda]

Horseman, on 26 December 2021 - 11:45 PM, said:

I recommend checking the definition
https://www.urbandic...m=Drama%20Queen
Definition the First

Spoiler

Definition the Second

Spoiler

Definition the Third

Spoiler

Definition the Fourth

Spoiler

Now, there is someone in this thread who matches those descriptions to a T - except it's not Ash, Bud or pbiggz.

Fits you well.

MPhoenix, on 27 December 2021 - 12:09 AM, said:

After reading this thread, and others, I will say that the OP and Nomad Tech have a valid point.

I've been dealing with online communities for almost thirty years, for the past twenty years I've built and run an online community with a member base that dwarfs MWO by far. When you get close to 350,000 player let me know, you'll be getting close enough to worth noticing.

I've watched dozens of online communities come and go, start up and die, grow incredibly fast and die off just as fast.

The one constant has been that communities that become insular stagnate and either die a quick death or a slow death but they die all the same.

My community has a rule, it's simple but it made it grow from 27,000 to 375,000 and we add another 40-75 each day.
Be helpful to new members and be civil to all members. I don't care if you've answered a question a hundred times, if a new member asks either answer again, point them to a link where they can read the answer or hit 'Back' and move on.
This rule has allowed our community to actually supplant our State's agency overseeing our field as the source for education and information.

What I see here in this community in the few months I've been here is an attitude that is far more likely to drive away new people than it is to attract them.

What I also see is that this post is probably a waste of time and that I'll be able to set my watch to the time by the first reply's content.

Anyone new comes to this forum and complains the same groups come and attack them, ask them to provide evidence then attack it if they even bother too.. 99% of the time they never return to these forums.. Its tiring and frankly pointless as it just continues the endless cycle of bugs, broken game issues and nothing changing (which is what they want)..

Just look at the posts in the Domination thread about the map colour.. Jesus thats just a colour change and "its not needed"

It never ends..

Edited by Nomad Tech, 27 December 2021 - 01:24 AM.

[Horseman]

Nomad Tech, on 27 December 2021 - 01:18 AM, said:

Fits you well.

Mmm. So you're not seeing any connection between those definitions and someone who has a habit of posting long-winded rambling rants that have no connection with reality, starting shitfits when he gets called out on it, proclaiming the whole community as toxic because it refuses to service his ego and now posted another long-winded rant where he pretends to leave the game in order to score pity points from gullible shmucks?

[martian]

MPhoenix, on 27 December 2021 - 12:09 AM, said:

If a new member asks either answer again, point them to a link where they can read the answer or hit 'Back' and move on.

My question: What if there is some forum member - not a new member, but somebody who has been around since 2011 - who keeps posting long posts filled with factual nonsenses? Are we allowed to correct those false statements?

MPhoenix, on 27 December 2021 - 12:09 AM, said:

What I see here in this community in the few months I've been here is an attitude that is far more likely to drive away new people than it is to attract them.

You mean attitude where players with some knowledge of the game discuss various topics?

You mean attitude where players with some knowledge of the game help new players ?

Anjian, on 27 December 2021 - 12:41 AM, said:

I am not sure comparing a brand new product like this Volkswagen EV --- which by the way, is going to have many heads rolled here --- is valid for comparing a software product that has 8 going to 9 years in life. By next year, its already nearly 10 years this game has reached beta.

The OP stated that "I never have encountered unfinished products for the car". I posted one real-world example of unfinished software product for the car ...

[Castigatus]

MPhoenix, on 27 December 2021 - 12:09 AM, said:

After reading this thread, and others, I will say that the OP and Nomad Tech have a valid point.

I've been dealing with online communities for almost thirty years, for the past twenty years I've built and run an online community with a member base that dwarfs MWO by far. When you get close to 350,000 player let me know, you'll be getting close enough to worth noticing.

I've watched dozens of online communities come and go, start up and die, grow incredibly fast and die off just as fast.

The one constant has been that communities that become insular stagnate and either die a quick death or a slow death but they die all the same.

My community has a rule, it's simple but it made it grow from 27,000 to 375,000 and we add another 40-75 each day.
Be helpful to new members and be civil to all members. I don't care if you've answered a question a hundred times, if a new member asks either answer again, point them to a link where they can read the answer or hit 'Back' and move on.
This rule has allowed our community to actually supplant our State's agency overseeing our field as the source for education and information.

What I see here in this community in the few months I've been here is an attitude that is far more likely to drive away new people than it is to attract them.

What I also see is that this post is probably a waste of time and that I'll be able to set my watch to the time by the first reply's content.

The problem with this phoenix is that the vast majority of the time it's not new players saying these things, it's people who have years upon years of history in this game who really should know better given the amount of time they've been around. I mean lets take the OP for example, to the best of my knowledge he is someone who has played MWO since 2011, so he has years of playtime and experience to draw on. Despite this, he keeps posting factually incorrect rants, throws tantrums and insults when people point out his facts are incorrect, and most recently made the first post in this very thread declaring he was leaving the game only to return less than 24 hours later to start insulting people again. It is bad for new players to see this kind of thing being tolerated and not being called out, both in terms of maintaining a decent standard of discourse in the forums and in terms of what we as more experienced players should be teaching the newer players. And honestly, if someone gets that offended by being told they're wrong about something, that is not someone you want in the community.

I don't care how tolerant you want your community to be, some people simply don't deserve to be in it and shouldn't be tolerated.

[martian]

Nomad Tech, on 27 December 2021 - 01:18 AM, said:

Anyone new comes to this forum and complains the same groups come and attack them, ask them to provide evidence then attack it if they even bother too.. 99% of the time they never return to these forums..

What reliable sources regarding that "99% of new players never returning" number do you have?

Nomad Tech, on 27 December 2021 - 01:18 AM, said:

Its tiring and frankly pointless as it just continues the endless cycle of bugs, broken game issues and nothing changing (which is what they want)..

With "nothing changing", do you mean the game-wide change of the matchmaker and PSR that happened a year ago?

With "nothing changing", do you mean the game-wide change of various 'Mech quirks, Mech stats and weapon stats that has happened in multiple game patches during the last few months?

With "nothing changing", do you mean the addition of many new 'Mech variants (all those Rivals, Stryker, Predator, Hunter and Warden 'Mech Packs)?

With "nothing changing", do you mean the rework or modification of multiple Quick Play maps such as Polar Highlands, Caustic Valley, HPG Manifold, Canyon Network, Viridian Bog, etc.?

With "nothing changing", do you mean the new map Hellebore Outpost (because this more a new map than just some adjustment of the original CW Hellebore Springs map?

With "nothing changing", do you mean the introduction of regular monthly challenges, in which the players can win actually viable BattleMechs and OmniMechs?

Nomad Tech, on 27 December 2021 - 01:18 AM, said:

the same groups come... and nothing changing (which is what they want)..

Maybe you have not yet noticed, but there is a certain group of players that is behind many of those changes that have happened recently. Some forum members that you dislike are members of that group - so you can hardly say that they want "nothing changing".

Nomad Tech, on 27 December 2021 - 01:18 AM, said:

Just look at the posts in the Domination thread about the map colour.. Jesus thats just a colour change and "its not needed"

Actually, I just did ...

This thread Domination Minimap has 16 posts in it.

Essentially, posters in that thread either request the colour change or complain that they can not see the current yellowish colour. One poster suggested checking the HUD. And one joker said both yes and no (but even he admitted that the circle is hard to discern) and posted the picture of 'Christmas Minion'. (I will not name that guy )

.. and you picked just one part of that last post as the representative for the entire thread.

Nomad Tech, on 27 December 2021 - 01:18 AM, said:

It never ends..

Are you talking about your "less-than-correct" posting?

[Anjian]

martian, on 27 December 2021 - 01:58 AM, said:

My question: What if there is some forum member - not a new member, but somebody who has been around since 2011 - who keeps posting long posts filled with factual nonsenses? Are we allowed to correct those false statements?



You mean attitude where players with some knowledge of the game discuss various topics?

You mean attitude where players with some knowledge of the game help new players ?



The OP stated that "I never have encountered unfinished products for the car". I posted one real-world example of unfinished software product for the car ...

But they fixed it, right? Then it would be finished then since the update did roll out long ago.

That's different from having something running for 8 to 9 years already and not fixing its issues.

[martian]

Anjian, on 27 December 2021 - 03:56 AM, said:

But they fixed it, right? Then it would be finished then since the update did roll out long ago.

The OP stated that "I never have encountered unfinished products for the car". I posted one real-world example of unfinished software product for the car ...
When those first customers bought their new Volkswagen ID.3 cars, their cars were "unfinished".

Anjian, on 27 December 2021 - 03:56 AM, said:

That's different from having something running for 8 to 9 years already and not fixing its issues.

PGI is not as big as Volkswagen, you know. PGI is a small compahy that has less resources. And PGI fixes some things as they can: I think that hit registration is much better than it used to be and I have not experienced the heat bug for months.

[Horseman]

martian, on 27 December 2021 - 03:30 AM, said:

And one joker said both yes and no (but even he admitted that the circle is hard to discern) and posted the picture of 'Christmas Minion'. (I will not name that guy )

I got the impression that he was sarcastically describing his impression of PGI's thought process, not arguing that he thinks it's unnecessary personally.
(honestly, the minimap should probably use either grayscale or very muted colors for the terrain, then any indicators with saturated colors would be more legible regardless of their actual coloration.

Anjian, on 27 December 2021 - 03:56 AM, said:

That's different from having something running for 8 to 9 years already and not fixing its issues.

OP is not complaining about issues with the game, he's complaining that the devs do not cater to his feature requests, do not fix in-game player behaviour and implemented a tier-based matchmaking system instead of routinely piling T1s and T5 seals against each other. In his rant, he fails to grasp that tying down/destroying enemy assets does serve objective-based goals (can't cap if you've been destroyed, after all) and that unlocking arms has been a feature for, oh, most of the game's existence.

Edited by Horseman, 27 December 2021 - 04:53 AM.

[martian]

Horseman, on 27 December 2021 - 04:49 AM, said:

I got the impression that he was sarcastically describing his impression of PGI's thought process, not arguing that he thinks it's unnecessary personally.

My impression too.