127 replies to this topic

[Davegt27]

I wonder if I can report my self for dropping PSR lol

[ScrapIron Prime]

Davegt27, on 26 December 2021 - 09:46 AM, said:

I wonder if I can report my self for dropping PSR lol

Should I report myself for voluntarily piloting an Uziel in an attempt to test it?

[Mr Nice Mech]

I just climbed my way into Tier 3. My second game in this tier and the red team had a player [Redacted] who has a 8.29 K/D ratio.....that is just disgusting, I have a 1.16 K/D for reference. Needless to say, the stomp ensued and it was back to Tier 4 for me. I am now in the Tier 3/4 yo-yo.

I'm sure this is cool for all of you, but it's pretty lame tbh.

[PocketYoda]

Verilligo, on 26 December 2021 - 07:57 AM, said:

The evidence points to the contrary, unless you are saying you play those mechs on a Tier 1 level. That is, by definition, playing as best as a mech can carry you. Given you are T4, rather than T1, it would reason that you are playing those mechs at a T4 level, rather than a T1 level. There is no shame in that. But you are in effect encouraging people to play mechs poorly in order to drop their tier level, which IS shameful. I think you recognize that, too, and are trying to rationalize your way out of it.

If it means they don't get stomped by tier 1s sounds like a good compromise. Horsemans just upset he can't grief people..

martian, on 26 December 2021 - 09:38 AM, said:

The last few game patches have helped many previously "bad" 'Mechs.

Yes but until a rescale happens nothing will save many..

Edited by Nomad Tech, 26 December 2021 - 09:03 PM.

[Horseman]

Nomad Tech, on 26 December 2021 - 09:01 PM, said:

If it means they don't get stomped by tier 1s sounds like a good compromise.

So that they can seal club T5s unchallenged?

Quote

Horsemans just upset he can't grief people.

Congratulations for living in the Evil Mirror Universe.
Being able to put up a fair fight against you does not constitute griefing you.
What you are advocating for is manipulating the matchmaking system with the express goal of dropping with and against players less effective than yourself so that you can lord over them.
Preying on those weaker than yourself but turning tail as soon as you finds yourself up against anyone on your level is the mindset of a schoolyard bully, and I am thoroughly f***ing disgusted when I see it displayed by supposed adults.
If you had any empathy, self-awareness or sense of fair play, you'd realize that what you are doing does qualify as a form of griefing - both towards the teammates in high tiers that you sabotage to drop in ranking and everyone in the low tiers that you intend to drop against.

We know the latter under a more descriptive name: seal clubbing. Have an illustration:

Edited by Horseman, 27 December 2021 - 01:32 AM.

[martian]

Mr Nice Mech, on 26 December 2021 - 08:55 PM, said:

I just climbed my way into Tier 3. My second game in this tier and the red team had a player named Zellkai who has a 8.29 K/D ratio.....that is just disgusting, I have a 1.16 K/D for reference. Needless to say, the stomp ensued and it was back to Tier 4 for me. I am now in the Tier 3/4 yo-yo.

I'm sure this is cool for all of you, but it's pretty lame tbh.

I can not speak for every T1 and T2 player, but I think that many such players are not exactly happy with such arrangement.
However, the matchmaker is the PGI's thing and common MWO players have no influence over it and its inner workings. The number of currently active players factors in too: The lower such number is, the more the matchmaker speads its nets among Tiers (usually ⁺/- 2 Tiers) to assemble a game.

Nomad Tech, on 26 December 2021 - 09:01 PM, said:

Yes but until a rescale happens nothing will save many..

So use "good" 'Mechs until then and wait for the next quirk pass.

[Bud Crue]

Mr Nice Mech, on 26 December 2021 - 08:55 PM, said:

I just climbed my way into Tier 3. My second game in this tier and the red team had a player named Zellkai who has a 8.29 K/D ratio.....that is just disgusting, I have a 1.16 K/D for reference. Needless to say, the stomp ensued and it was back to Tier 4 for me. I am now in the Tier 3/4 yo-yo.

I'm sure this is cool for all of you, but it's pretty lame tbh.

Believe me, many of us sympathize with this. In Tier 1-3 play, you might end up with me on your team (I was 31% last month yet am T1 material according to the MM) or you might get one of the seriously skilled players or groups, because as far as the MM is concerned T1 is T1 regardless of actual performance. This reality has always had the potential to make an evening of play rather, let us say, punishing, when you get stuck with the same set of folks match after match; and even worse when such folks are dropping in groups (the MM might drop you with my group of mid-low percent casuals, or the JGx group for as long as we are the only similar tier groups in the queue). It isn't terribly fun for anybody, but that is the population the MM has to work with some nights. C'est la vie.

[Ihlrath]

Actual footage me learning MWO......

[Heavy Money]

Bud Crue, on 27 December 2021 - 06:23 AM, said:

Believe me, many of us sympathize with this. In Tier 1-3 play, you might end up with me on your team (I was 31% last month yet am T1 material according to the MM) or you might get one of the seriously skilled players or groups, because as far as the MM is concerned T1 is T1 regardless of actual performance. This reality has always had the potential to make an evening of play rather, let us say, punishing, when you get stuck with the same set of folks match after match; and even worse when such folks are dropping in groups (the MM might drop you with my group of mid-low percent casuals, or the JGx group for as long as we are the only similar tier groups in the queue). It isn't terribly fun for anybody, but that is the population the MM has to work with some nights. C'est la vie.

This. If the MWO population was much larger, then it'd make sense to have like 10 tiers, with current t1 being split into 5 new ones. But we just don't have the population for it.

Remember though, there's not much of a bonus for winning/losing to your cbill or EXP earnings. You can perform well and make good profit and progress even when losing.

[KaptinOrk]

Mr Nice Mech, on 26 December 2021 - 08:55 PM, said:

I just climbed my way into Tier 3. My second game in this tier and the red team had a player named Zellkai who has a 8.29 K/D ratio.....that is just disgusting, I have a 1.16 K/D for reference. Needless to say, the stomp ensued and it was back to Tier 4 for me. I am now in the Tier 3/4 yo-yo.

I'm sure this is cool for all of you, but it's pretty lame tbh.

I'm bouncing between T4 and T3 as well. I'll have 3-5 great games in T4 to push my over the edge, then I'll get stomped 3-5 times in the T3 games, pushing me back into T4 to repeat the cycle. This happens like clockwork and it's honestly starting to get old.

Edit: Anecdotally, I checked Jarls after a couple of the more egregious stomps in T3 and found that all but a couple of the red were ranked 90%+ with several over 95%. My team consisted of mostly 50-70% players with a few ~80% players as well. I wish I had saved those screenshots.

Edited by KaptinOrk, 27 December 2021 - 05:36 PM.

[Davegt27]

Horseman, on 26 December 2021 - 10:57 PM, said:

So that they can seal club T5s unchallenged?
Congratulations for living in the Evil Mirror Universe.
Being able to put up a fair fight against you does not constitute griefing you.
What you are advocating for is manipulating the matchmaking system with the express goal of dropping with and against players less effective than yourself so that you can lord over them.
Preying on those weaker than yourself but turning tail as soon as you finds yourself up against anyone on your level is the mindset of a schoolyard bully, and I am thoroughly f***ing disgusted when I see it displayed by supposed adults.
If you had any empathy, self-awareness or sense of fair play, you'd realize that what you are doing does qualify as a form of griefing - both towards the teammates in high tiers that you sabotage to drop in ranking and everyone in the low tiers that you intend to drop against.

We know the latter under a more descriptive name: seal clubbing. Have an illustration:

nice description of MWO

[MrMadguy]

pbiggz, on 25 December 2021 - 09:47 AM, said:

Your entire game is wanting to have 1200 damage roflstomps every match. When you dont get them you blame the matchmaker. Nobody takes it seriously and you have yet to honestly refute this point.

No. Don't try to put words in my mouth. What I try to show via these screenshots - is that I'm too good for Tier 4, but too bad for Tier 3. And this is... Just wrong. Hanging between two Tiers - is wrong. Whole purpose of having 5 (!!!) Tiers - is to provide place for every player. So, now we actually have only two Tiers. Tier 4 and Tier 1.

I guess, problem is, as always, with top players, who are small % of playerbase, so they don't have enough players to play with. So their matches are padded with lower Tier guys. But doing this causes side effect. Lower Tier guys are pushed to even lower Tiers, leaving higher Tier guys with even lesser number of players to play with.

At the end we need to do something with this problem. Using lower Tier players as cannon fodder for higher Tier players just to please them - is wrong strategy. If there is no other way to make this game running, at least lower Tier players should be given some compensation for constantly having bad matches. First of all game should be more clear about unbalanced matches. We deserve to know, if following match is going to be unbalanced. And in order to prevent "I quit, because I'm going to be insta-one-shotted anyway - don't want to waste my time" behavior - compensation should be given.

Edited by MrMadguy, 27 December 2021 - 08:00 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

MrMadguy, on 24 December 2021 - 08:41 AM, said:

Why you do this way in Tier 4

but at exact moment, when you step into Tier 3, game becomes literally unplayable.

Well two cherry picked screenshots don't really tell the true story.

In T3 you can match easily with T1 all way to T5. In T4 that doesn't happen... You know this, you are well aware of this.

End of the day you are Tier 3 skill so of course when you deliberately tank your PSR back to Tier 4, you are playing against players that you have a massive skill gap on. You are literally gaming the match maker just to make yourself feel better, nothing more.

If you stop gaming the MM system, stay in Tier 3 - you will stop playing against noobs and more closer to people of your skill level and then you will see match results inline with that.

It is very simple and it's been explained to you many, many times.

[justcallme A S H]

Nomad Tech, on 26 December 2021 - 07:02 AM, said:

No it works fine there are a lot of bad mechs and they cannot sustain a good PSR even if used to their peak..

Wrong.

[ScrapIron Prime]

justcallme A S H said:

1640666827[/url]' post='6439797']
Wrong.

I just love the nuanced level of feedback we get around here.

But ASH is right. I’ve been working an Uziel this past week as a proof of concept, and it’s a BAD mech. My PSR certainly isn’t going up, but neither is it dropping. Working a sub par mech to the best of your ability won’t increase your tier very fast if at all, but neither is it an express elevator going down.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 27 December 2021 - 08:59 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

ScrapIron Prime, on 27 December 2021 - 08:58 PM, said:

I just love the nuanced level of feedback we get around here.

When Samial/Mechagnome (it's his 3rd rename now) continually posts grossly incorrect statements there is no need to try and explain the point.

He does not want to understand the nuances. The only aim is to constantly mislead people.

If I played a game for many years and was shown I still lacked basic understanding of it... I'd stop commenting incorrectly on it. This guy however, won't. Rather he would prefer to attempt to mislead people constantly and that is just not worth wasting more than 1 word on sometimes.

[MrMadguy]

Also. I've forgotten about another two things:
1) Even imbalanced matches should be balanced much better. Something should be done to prevent situation, where the same player is on losing side again, again and again. If losing is inevitable, at least make it 50/50. I.e. I lose vs Tier 1 guys in one match, but next match I have some sort of cooldown on losing, so I play normal match instead or at least I play match on winning side. Lose streaks with very rare good matches shouldn't happen.
2) May be rewarding method should be used instead of punishing one? Because punishing method causes players to burn out and quit. And that is bad thing in a long term. Because no matter, what devs do - low population is their major problem. No matter, how good event rewards are. If quality of game is bad - players will quit as soon, as event is completed. I.e. may be players shouldn't be forced into imbalanced matches, they don't want to participate in? May be they should be rewarded for doing it, so they would actually want to do it? I talk about something like "Call to arms". Give players choice to have better match, but with longer wait times, or bad match, but with short wait time and "Call to arms" reward.

[martian]

MrMadguy, on 27 December 2021 - 09:48 PM, said:

2) May be rewarding method should be used instead of punishing one? Because punishing method causes players to burn out and quit.

What is the "punishing method" that you are talking about?

As it is now, the matchmaker uses PSR. PSR is based on the mathematic formula. This formula is applied on every single player the same way, it is absolutely impartial and it can not "punish" people.

MrMadguy, on 27 December 2021 - 09:48 PM, said:

Give players choice to have better match, but with longer wait times, or bad match, but with short wait time and "Call to arms" reward.

Splitting the players pool into various buckets would result in longer waiting times for everybody.

[Horseman]

MrMadguy, on 27 December 2021 - 09:48 PM, said:

1) Even imbalanced matches should be balanced much better. Something should be done to prevent situation, where the same player is on losing side again, again and again. If losing is inevitable, at least make it 50/50. I.e. I lose vs Tier 1 guys in one match, but next match I have some sort of cooldown on losing, so I play normal match instead or at least I play match on winning side. Lose streaks with very rare good matches shouldn't happen.

That's the purpose of having a matchmaker...

[Heavy Money]

MrMadguy, on 27 December 2021 - 09:48 PM, said:

Also. I've forgotten about another two things:
1) Even imbalanced matches should be balanced much better. Something should be done to prevent situation, where the same player is on losing side again, again and again. If losing is inevitable, at least make it 50/50. I.e. I lose vs Tier 1 guys in one match, but next match I have some sort of cooldown on losing, so I play normal match instead or at least I play match on winning side. Lose streaks with very rare good matches shouldn't happen.
2) May be rewarding method should be used instead of punishing one? Because punishing method causes players to burn out and quit. And that is bad thing in a long term. Because no matter, what devs do - low population is their major problem. No matter, how good event rewards are. If quality of game is bad - players will quit as soon, as event is completed. I.e. may be players shouldn't be forced into imbalanced matches, they don't want to participate in? May be they should be rewarded for doing it, so they would actually want to do it? I talk about something like "Call to arms". Give players choice to have better match, but with longer wait times, or bad match, but with short wait time and "Call to arms" reward.

I think you're certainly not wrong about how jarring it can be going from t4 to t3. It is ultimately an issue of population though. The things you are suggesting here could maybe work, but it'd be a massive can of worms to get right, and may cause more problems than it really solves (and certainly more confusion.) If we had enough population for more tiers or better matching and a better solution to groups in quickplay (which are the main cause of you matching against the same good person over and over) then a lot of these issues would disappear. There's only so much that could be done to try to duct tape over the problem, and PGI probably won't do it anyhow.

What can be done though is to improve enough that you do fit into t3, and/or find some people to play with to help you do that. I realize that may not be a very satisfying answer or solution, and I don't mean it in the 'just git gud' sense. I mean that the sticky part of the skill bracket you're in will get less sticky pretty fast as you improve a bit more, and these issues will be less of a factor. Losing matches against top players will always be a thing, but in t5 you lose games to terrible teams just as often, so don't lose perspective, lol. And most importantly, it is what can be done for now on your end.

Edited by Heavy Money, 27 December 2021 - 10:22 PM.