64 replies to this topic

[MadBede]

MG looks is one of the best close combat weapon systems in game. Constant spam of damage without any negatives. All cool but its just pure BS. HMG is better than AUC 2? like wth 1.5 damage per second. You can strip mech armor with bunch of MGs in short time.
MG cant be effective against heavy armor, cmon, bit of common sense. You cant destroy Abrams with AK 47 no matter how many bullets you shoot.
How about make MG to make damage only vs exposed structure after armor plating is destroyed, makes sense, soft flesh you can reap.
Or just nerf damage by a mile. LMG - 0.25 damage , MG - 0.5, HMG - 0.75.
Its enough we must deal with Lights blocking 100t mechs, no need for this BS. MG is always to clear infantry of lightly armored targets.
p.s.
Now hit me how bad i am, mindless, etc.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

let's just reverse that;
Jarls says you have ~1000games under your belt. buy yourself a Piranha, Viper or whatever
and show us just how broken they are. should be easy, right?

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 25 December 2021 - 06:58 AM.

[Der Geisterbaer]

MadBede said:

MG looks is one of the best close combat weapon systems in game.

They certainly are good knives if you happen to find yourself in a knive fight ... but "the best"? Nope.

MadBede said:

Constant spam of damage without any negatives.

You mean apart from the rather low range?
Or their spread?

MadBede said:

All cool but its just pure BS.

Let's just say that what you wrote so far and what comes further down from you is "BS"

MadBede said:

HMG is better than AUC 2? like wth 1.5 damage per second.

Considering that AC2s and UACs actually do have 2.78DPS you're wrong there. But be glad about it because the AC2/UAC2 DPS values are 278% of the standard machine gun where the original table top had machine guns and AC2s at the exact same damage / DPS values.

MadBede said:

You can strip mech armor with bunch of MGs in short time.

In order to do that you have to fully expose your own mech for a very long time ... with moving target and own movement you'll be out in the open at a distance of roughly 100m for 10+ seconds in a 1 on 1 situation ... and if you do that you'll end up dead most of the time because 1 on 1 rarely stays 1 on 1 that long unless the attacked mech has been left behind by its team and is incapable of simply shooting the machine gun mech.

MadBede said:

MG cant be effective against heavy armor, cmon, bit of common sense.

I strongly suggest that you refrain from mentioning "common sense" there because you obviously failed to recognize that Battletech / MW.O machine guns weigh between 250kg and 1000kg. Those are weights that you'll see in the Vulcan cannon or a GAU-8 Avenger.
Add to that the fact that you're talking about fictional weapon systems in a fictional game universe - where the inventors explicitly decided that thier "machine guns" are in fact anti-tank / anti-mech weapons (that originally were supposed to do the exact same damage as large bore autocannons) - and then come to the realization that ..

MadBede said:

You cant destroy Abrams with AK 47 no matter how many bullets you shoot.

.. your comparison is one of apples against not just oranges but steak. An AK 47 weighs 3.8kg vs. those 250kg to 1000kgs of a Battletech "machine gun".

MadBede said:

How about make MG to make damage only vs exposed structure after armor plating is destroyed, makes sense, soft flesh you can reap.

How about not proposing a change that only makes "sense" in your mind but defies both original Battletech lore and general balance?

MadBede said:

Or just nerf damage by a mile. LMG - 0.25 damage , MG - 0.5, HMG - 0.75.

Yeah right, make machine guns useless for anything that cannot boat them and then at the same time nerf those mechs that can boat them but aren't truly a big danger. Looks like the PIR-1 bogeyman has struck again.

MadBede said:

Its enough we must deal with Lights blocking 100t mechs, no need for this BS.

Indeed, there was no need for you BS thread and btw. Lights are not truly capable of blocking a 100t mech.

MadBede said:

MG is always to clear infantry of lightly armored targets.

No, in the Battletech universe the 250kg to 1000kg "machine guns" are full-fledged anti-tank / anti-mech weapons at the lower end of the damage spectrum that have limited range and do additional damage to infantry ... and since MW.O doesn't have infantry in the first place any reference to "anti-infantry" goes out of the window anyway.

MadBede said:

p.s.
Now hit me how bad i am, mindless, etc.

This isn't about wether or not you're "bad" or "mindless". This is about you being wrong on pretty much everything you just wrote.

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 25 December 2021 - 07:18 AM.

[martian]

MadBede, on 25 December 2021 - 06:34 AM, said:

MG looks is one of the best close combat weapon systems in game. Constant spam of damage without any negatives. All cool but its just pure BS. HMG is better than AUC 2? like wth 1.5 damage per second. You can strip mech armor with bunch of MGs in short time.

The important part: "close combat weapon system".

MadBede, on 25 December 2021 - 06:34 AM, said:

Constant spam of damage without any negatives.

I would count the effective range of mere 130 m among quite important negatives.

MadBede, on 25 December 2021 - 06:34 AM, said:

All cool but its just pure BS. HMG is better than AUC 2? like wth 1.5 damage per second. You can strip mech armor with bunch of MGs in short time.

Seriously?

If you have Class Two Ultracannon, you can start stripping enemy armor on 700 m, while the effective range of Heavy Machine Gun is 130 m. Spot the difference ...

Why do you think that Daishi "Ultraviolet" often carries eight Class Two cannons and not eight HMGs?

MadBede, on 25 December 2021 - 06:34 AM, said:

MG cant be effective against heavy armor, cmon, bit of common sense. You cant destroy Abrams with AK 47 no matter how many bullets you shoot.

This is BattleTech/MechWarrior game that you are playing. Machine Guns in BattleTech are often like modern 20 mm automatic cannons.

MadBede, on 25 December 2021 - 06:34 AM, said:

How about make MG to make damage only vs exposed structure after armor plating is destroyed, makes sense, soft flesh you can reap.

Or just nerf damage by a mile. LMG - 0.25 damage , MG - 0.5, HMG - 0.75.

Whenever you suggest such change, ask yourself a question: "Would I use such weapon?"

MadBede, on 25 December 2021 - 06:34 AM, said:

Its enough we must deal with Lights blocking 100t mechs, no need for this BS. MG is always to clear infantry of lightly armored targets.

Technical Readout: 3058 specifically mentions the effectivity of Machine Guns use against BattleMechs.

And I have one or two questions for you:

1. If Machine Guns are such magnificent weapons, why is not the game flooded with the Dragonfly with eight Machine Guns? PGI awarded this 'Mech as Loyalty reward a month ago and many players have this 'Mech.

2. Why do I see elite players in the game in all kinds of 'Mechs with various loadouts - Gauss Rifles, ER PPCs, Ultracannons, etc.) - but usually not in 'Mechs filled with Machine Guns?

[MadBede]

OK, ok , ok. MG is ok, light blocking 100t assault is ok , running around 150 h,h is totally possible , ok i get . And yes MG is better in close combat than AUC. Bye

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

that's a very mature way to handle things.
Cheers.

[martian]

MadBede, on 25 December 2021 - 07:33 AM, said:

OK, ok , ok. MG is ok, light blocking 100t assault is ok , running around 150 h,h is totally possible , ok i get . And yes MG is better in close combat than AUC. Bye

No need to be angry.

[Curccu]

MadBede, on 25 December 2021 - 06:34 AM, said:

MG looks is one of the best close combat weapon systems in game. Constant spam of damage without any negatives. All cool but its just pure BS. HMG is better than AUC 2? like wth 1.5 damage per second. You can strip mech armor with bunch of MGs in short time.

Uhh fun thread.... like you say in PS. lets smash?

Constant facetime isn't negative? short or very short range in HMG case isn't negative?
Better than AUC 2? UAC2? Better How?
Yes weapons are meant to kill mechs you know, in a game that ONLY has mechs.

MadBede, on 25 December 2021 - 06:34 AM, said:

MG cant be effective against heavy armor, cmon, bit of common sense. You cant destroy Abrams with AK 47 no matter how many bullets you shoot.

1st Talking about common sense? It would be common knowledge to know that AK47 isn't machigun, it's an assault rifle and it's using intermediate cartridge. Google more if interested.
2nd google a machine gun that weight 1 ton (Gau-8 is 1 example that weights about that.) and then you will learn that those will rip your precious abrams to pieces.

MadBede, on 25 December 2021 - 06:34 AM, said:

How about make MG to make damage only vs exposed structure after armor plating is destroyed, makes sense, soft flesh you can reap.

How about no? Wouldn't make SENSE to have weapon that can affect only last 3rd of mechs HP pool.

MadBede, on 25 December 2021 - 06:34 AM, said:

Or just nerf damage by a mile. LMG - 0.25 damage , MG - 0.5, HMG - 0.75.

Again how about no? MG's are in pretty good place right now really bit underpowered because there is no reason to take just 1-2 of them.

MadBede, on 25 December 2021 - 06:34 AM, said:

Its enough we must deal with Lights blocking 100t mechs, no need for this BS. MG is always to clear infantry of lightly armored targets.

So light mech touched you "there" and now you are a bit sad and mad?
Can you please post a screenshot that shows infantry or lightly armored targets in this game?

MadBede, on 25 December 2021 - 06:34 AM, said:

p.s.
Now hit me how bad i am, mindless, etc.

Done?

PS. And now waiting some mispresented battletech quotas.

[YueFei]

Wish I had a dollar for every time someone conflated Battletech MGs with IRL MGs instead of realizing that Battletech MGs are more like this:
https://upload.wikim...s_VW_Type_1.jpg

[Curccu]

YueFei, on 25 December 2021 - 12:19 PM, said:

Wish I had a dollar for every time someone conflated Battletech MGs with IRL MGs instead of realizing that Battletech MGs are more like this:
https://upload.wikim...s_VW_Type_1.jpg

That would be 20-30$ for me this far. In this case dude only compared 1 ton heavy machinegun to ~4KG AK-47....
and then said it wouldn't hurt abrams. With same weight ratio that Abrams would weight 216KG... I don't think you can get 1 wheeled car with a roof with that weight and it would not stop those AK rounds.

[Blood Rose]

MadBede, on 25 December 2021 - 06:34 AM, said:

"A MG build badtouched me and I let it"

>Short range
>Literal 1DPS and need to constantly facetime your opponent to do anything
>Spread
>Ammo guzzlers
Want me to go on?

Also, BTT vehicle mounted MG's are really what we call autocannons today. Regular MG's are about 30-40mm, HMG's are 50-60mm and LMG's are 25mm.

Edited by Blood Rose, 25 December 2021 - 01:06 PM.

[PocketYoda]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 25 December 2021 - 06:58 AM, said:

let's just reverse that;
Jarls says you have ~1000games under your belt. buy yourself a Piranha, Viper or whatever
and show us just how broken they are. should be easy, right?

Funny you quoted the two most "broken" mechs, almost like you know.

Edited by Nomad Tech, 25 December 2021 - 07:56 PM.

[1453 R]

Worth noting: "machine gun", IRL, does not refer to automatic infantry rifles like the AK-47. At the absolute lightest, 'machine gun' refers to a squad automatic weapon, and in normal military usage, 'machine gun' refers to an emplaced, crew-served weapon such as the Browning M2. A Ma Deuce can absolutely do poor things to all but the heaviest of vehicle armor, and the GAU-8 YueFei mentioned will turn an MBT into modern art. Liek no srsly - the A-10 is an eater of souls and smiter of armor.

Heh...all that said? This is BattleTech. Weapons in BattleTech haven't been remotely realistic for the last forty years, why should they start now? Machine guns are in a decent spot right now; their trade-offs include very short range, defense-weakening facetime requirements, and the need to be boated in huge quantities to be effective. They're very bad on slow 'Mechs that can't engage quickly and fade away, there's relatively few 'Mechs that can actually effectively run machine guns of any stripe. Almost all of them are light 'Mechs, which need the bloody help.

[martian]

Nomad Tech, on 25 December 2021 - 07:56 PM, said:

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 25 December 2021 - 06:58 AM, said:

let's just reverse that;
Jarls says you have ~1000games under your belt. buy yourself a Piranha, Viper or whatever
and show us just how broken they are. should be easy, right?

Funny you quoted the two most "broken" mechs, almost like you know.

1. Piranha is a light 'Mech of the lowest weight class. It carries only 138 points of armor. It carries armament that forces it to engage from 130 metres or less.

All this in the game where 40-50 pinpoint alpha strikes coming often from the medium or long range are nothing unusual ... In plain English, many enemy 'Mechs can kill or cripple Piranha with one push of a button.

I suggest you take it and play 20-30 games in it to see with your own eyes how "broken" Piranha - and other light 'Mechs - really is.

2. The Viper - and I presume you are talking about the Loyalty VPR-F(L) configuration - is a fragile 'Mech. It offers just 8.5 tons of pod space. Its Machine Guns loadout forces it to engage from the close range and keep the entire 'Mech pointed towards the target for many seconds.

I suggest you take this Viper and play 20-30 games in it to see with your own eyes how "broken" this Loyalty Viper really is.

Edited by martian, 25 December 2021 - 11:39 PM.

[MPhoenix]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 25 December 2021 - 07:37 AM, said:

that's a very mature way to handle things.
Cheers.

As compared to the snide, demeaning and rude reply by Der Geisterbaer?

[YueFei]

MPhoenix, on 26 December 2021 - 12:26 AM, said:

As compared to the snide, demeaning and rude reply by Der Geisterbaer?

Don't dish it out if you can't take it. MadBede came in with a rude and passive-aggressive opening post to begin with.

With skin that thin, I bet he's totally uncoachable. I swear, so many players in this game could've benefitted from playing some kind of team sport in school. They would've learned to be more humble and whine less, and learn to take criticism and advice to improve themselves instead of blaming all of their failures on everything except themselves.

At the end of the day, MWO is just a game, and performing poorly in a video game doesn't matter one bit. However, someone's attitude in this game is very telling, because it speaks poorly of their character. If they carry that same attitude to every other endeavor in their life, they ain't gonna get very far.

I know it wouldn't have helped my career if, whenever a supervisor or colleague criticized my work, I threw a hissy fit. Nah, I stayed humble, accepted their advice and appreciated it, and worked to get better at my craft.

Same way my dad once tried to make a junior telecomm technician shape up. That technician complained that my dad was being "mean" to him. Nah, my dad told him, "I'm not trying to be mean to you, I'm trying to teach you."
That dude stopped for a moment and thought about it, and ended up having a lot of respect for my dad and becoming one of the best technicians they had.

MWO, team sports, at the end of the day it isn't about that hobby or sport in and of itself. Few of us will ever play any sport professionally. The real value to ourselves from participating in these activities is one of building our own character.

Your choice, really.

Edited by YueFei, 26 December 2021 - 01:19 AM.

[MrMadguy]

MadBede, on 25 December 2021 - 06:34 AM, said:

MG looks is one of the best close combat weapon systems in game. Constant spam of damage without any negatives. All cool but its just pure BS. HMG is better than AUC 2? like wth 1.5 damage per second. You can strip mech armor with bunch of MGs in short time.
MG cant be effective against heavy armor, cmon, bit of common sense. You cant destroy Abrams with AK 47 no matter how many bullets you shoot.
How about make MG to make damage only vs exposed structure after armor plating is destroyed, makes sense, soft flesh you can reap.
Or just nerf damage by a mile. LMG - 0.25 damage , MG - 0.5, HMG - 0.75.
Its enough we must deal with Lights blocking 100t mechs, no need for this BS. MG is always to clear infantry of lightly armored targets.
p.s.
Now hit me how bad i am, mindless, etc.

MGs are ok, cuz their DMG is laughable. It's Lights with imba number of hardpoints, that are problem. Simple and easy solution - ghost heat penalties.

Edited by MrMadguy, 26 December 2021 - 01:26 AM.

[martian]

MrMadguy, on 26 December 2021 - 01:25 AM, said:

MGs are ok, cuz their DMG is laughable. It's Lights with imba number of hardpoints, that are problem. Simple and easy solution - ghost heat penalties.

No, light 'Mechs are not OP.

No, light 'Mechs do not need to be punished.

Some light 'Mechs rely on their ballistic hardpoints and MGs carried in them:

• SDR-5K Spider has four MGs, but only one energy hardpoint.
  
• LCT-1V Locust has just one laser hardpoint, but four ballistic hardpoints.
  
• FLE-19 Flea has just one laser and one missile hardpoint, but eight ballistic hardpoints. Thus, using MGs is a must.
  
• "Fury" with two laser hardpoints (in CT, so with limited room) and six Machine Guns.
  
• etc.

Just say directly that you want to punish Piranha.

[LordNothing]

is there a whine about mwo event on that nobody told me about?

as for me somone bought me a $200 keyboard, im testing it out, its awesome.

[Der Geisterbaer]

MPhoenix, on 26 December 2021 - 12:26 AM, said:

As compared to the snide, demeaning and rude reply by Der Geisterbaer?

~laugh~