32 replies to this topic

[Thorqemada]

As the Title says, i believe wholheartedly EG7 misses out on relatively easy money not making PGI release MW:Clans!

To me my thought was allways that MW5 on the new engine would be the pioneer game that enables PGI to develop the tools and skills (Experience with the new engine and the usage of said tools it offers/they made themself) to expand on that base MW5 laid and cash in more for less investment bcs the development machine by then would be oiled, PC, Playstation and X-Box are covered.

MW5 by now is a working game with a dedicated mod scene that makes great mods available and enables players to tailor the game quite far toward their preferred playstyle.

I would expect, that with that developed experience in the dev team it would enable EG7/PGI to develop MW:Clans for a rather reduced investment budget compared to MW:5, as the roadblocks in the path are pretty much ironed out.

It should mostly be model making, quest/mission making, some map making and more polish bcs the base game combat is already fun.
Some AI work and Mission that are less swarm mentality depended would be nice though.

But all that should be by now in reach for way less effort, than MW:5 needed!

Plus, i would think that the potential customer base is bigger, than that for MW5:
1. The game is more known yet (albeit its still mostly marketed at franchise insiders)
2. The IS crowd will buy the game as long they can fight the evil, inhumane Clans.
3. The Clan crowd will buy the game to save the (force into submission) regressing, immoral IS.
4. The combined effort of both crowds and the renewd and bigger exposure to the public would pull more uninitiated players toward the franchise, especially if Co-Op is a little more fleshed out with all Players getting rewards for themself.
5. Multiple Pilot avatars and individual Pilot Skilling should be a thing and Pilot Avatar cosmetics would add nice Cash Shop oportunities.

Probably there is more but to me its already enough to making me really thinking EG7 dropped the ball here and missed out on rather easy to get roi!

I dont see how a focus on games/mmos (Lord of the Rings!?) that stopped working ages ago will make them any significant money in the future...

Well, that is my view on it - i will never play MWO again but MW:5 is there to stay and be modded for a long time to come and available at my fingertips when i want it instead of slaving me into a schedule reagrdless.

I hate the Clans and i would buy MW:Clans to kick their arse to beyond time and space!

What would you do?

Edited by Thorqemada, 31 January 2022 - 05:26 PM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

its over...MW5 not bring enough Profit in the Mind of the EG 7 CEO`S.
this shareholder is a pirate, he takes over other studios, plunders talented people for his own crew what he needs and if the rest is not profitable enough, everything is sunk, so now mW5 was sunk and all the talented people working on it will work in the future on EG7 projects like Lord of the Rings.
These people (CEO`s) aren't interested in any brands or game universes, it's all about profit and even more profit and when LotR not brings enought profit,the working guys enslaved for the next project thats brings money

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 01 February 2022 - 01:57 AM.

[PyreLlght]

It's not completely over yet, the report only said that work on Mechwarrior 5 is winding down. Nothing about Mechwarrior 6: Clans

But I totally agreed with you that it makes perfect business sense to make another Mechwarrior, I saw this post on Reddit and I think it makes sense:

People might counter-argue that the EG7 investor briefing gave clear confirmation that Mechwarrior is dead and PGI is being relegated to be a support studio for the LOTR MMO. To this I would say:

• 
  The briefing is aimed investors and not Mechwarrior fans, so they would only be talking about the prioritization of resources with regard to MW5
  
• 
  They only said that further development on MW5 is winding down, they did not say that there is no more Mechwarrior product
  
• 
  There are strong indications that we will still get DLC3 later this year, so I think we are jumping to conclusions about what the investor briefing meant
  
• 
  EG7 said that the Steam and Xbox launch was successful and performed above expectations, so it would not make sense to completely abandon an IP that you 6 months ago thought was successful and performed above expectations.
  
• 
  The takeaway from the underperformance of the PlayStation version and Kestrel DLC is more that DLC releases sell less and get less attention so making new standalone products (such as a MW6 Clans) is the way forward
  
• 
  PGI already has all the Clans assets from MWO, has the code base from MW5 and the expertise and pipeline for another Mechwarrior game, and the Clans are iconic and highly requested, so from a cost-benefit analysis, there is low risk, high reward with a Mechwarrior Clans game
  
• 
  PGI’s Mechwarrior license with Microsoft runs out in 2025, there’s no way they are just going to sit on it for the next 3 years
  
• 
  According to EG7’s acquisition of PGI, PGI will get a hefty bonus if they meet certain revenue targets. Making a Clans sequel that’s relatively cheaper to produce than another entirely new project seems like a smart way forward in meeting these revenue targets.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Hi Pyrelight

Thats correct, but
-Sharehoder corporations exist only to make their investors happy and think only as far as their current CEO has just ideas, in our case, the entire Chinese development team was fired, which was just about to introduce a new product on the market to replace an older product, only to let the balance sheet of the investors cheer in the short term ... now hangs the entire company perhaps thereby before the out and sale.
-EG 7 has already flattened enough products and successful franchises and studios, best example Battlestar Galactica Online, which is certainly a bigger and more successful brand than BT.
-Without a team there is no MW6 -once the team is torn apart and with it the know how, there are layoffs (not everyone moves with EG7 because they want it that way) the dream is over and it took years for PGi to find talented people to at least make MW5 when it was already over with MWO because they couldn't find people.

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 01 February 2022 - 08:37 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

if MW6 makes it on to EG7's roadmap, then it will be clans and there will be rejoicing. Until then, we can assume that MW5 has not been enough of a cash cow to buy the new owners' love. And I think a DLC is too much work for the amount of cash they'd get for making it.

Looking like its going to be a while.

[KodiakGW]

Thorqemada, on 31 January 2022 - 05:24 PM, said:

What would you do?

If I were EG7, I'd look at the total history of the Mechwarrior franchise. Mechwarrior 4: Mercs had good sale numbers. But, so did MechAssault. 1.1 million copies worldwide, for only Xbox. Long before downloading games on that platform was the main source of distribution. Seeing how happy they were at 70K sales on Steam, imagine how happy they would be if it were even half the MechAssault numbers.

There are players out there, but they are not interested in what the old PGI management (and the loud forum people who support their bad decisions) have pushed out. Not saying make MW6 into the next MechAssault. Give players a choice on how they want to run their campaign/career. Choice of 'Lore Mode' that sets things like the current vanilla game, and 'FPS Mode' that has YAML like customization and features. Also the latter should include some of the changes of mods that make the game more fun. That way the forum trolls can go around telling people that they are better than those that play 'FPS mode', and to 'git gud' like them, Yet still pull in sales numbers that they are not seeing with the vanilla 'Lore mode' that console players have to deal with.

One of the reasons why I liked MW4:Mercs was that I could run a 3xClan LBX10 Thanny (with 360 torso twist) in War!Online drops. Something the 'lore' people despised, like they despised MechAssault (which I also enjoyed playing).

[PyreLlght]

MW Waldorf Statler, on 01 February 2022 - 08:33 AM, said:

Hi Pyrelight

Thats correct, but
-Sharehoder corporations exist only to make their investors happy and think only as far as their current CEO has just ideas, in our case, the entire Chinese development team was fired, which was just about to introduce a new product on the market to replace an older product, only to let the balance sheet of the investors cheer in the short term ... now hangs the entire company perhaps thereby before the out and sale.
-EG 7 has already flattened enough products and successful franchises and studios, best example Battlestar Galactica Online, which is certainly a bigger and more successful brand than BT.
-Without a team there is no MW6 -once the team is torn apart and with it the know how, there are layoffs (not everyone moves with EG7 because they want it that way) the dream is over and it took years for PGi to find talented people to at least make MW5 when it was already over with MWO because they couldn't find people.

What is this thing with "the entire Chinese development team was fired, which was just about to introduce a new product on the market to replace an older produc"? Could you explain a bit more what this is?

And what is this "this shareholder is a pirate, he takes over other studios, plunders talented people for his own crew what he needs and if the rest is not profitable enough, everything is sunk"? Are you talking about EG7's new CEO Ji Ham? What's the story behind him?

KodiakGW, on 01 February 2022 - 01:40 PM, said:

If I were EG7, I'd look at the total history of the Mechwarrior franchise. Mechwarrior 4: Mercs had good sale numbers. But, so did MechAssault. 1.1 million copies worldwide, for only Xbox. Long before downloading games on that platform was the main source of distribution. Seeing how happy they were at 70K sales on Steam, imagine how happy they would be if it were even half the MechAssault numbers.

MW4 Mercs had such good sales numbers that Microsoft killed the series and never touched it again (more seriously, where do you even have MW4 Mercs sales numbers from?)

Also, MW5 has sold a lot more than 70k on Steam.

Edited by PyreLlght, 01 February 2022 - 02:14 PM.

[KodiakGW]

And here we go. Know I should have not posted on these forums.

So, I said 70K off the top of my head. It was 160K with 75K DLCs (which was the number I was remembering). Still way below half of MechAssault 1.1 million.

Source:
https://www.enadglob...erim-Report.pdf

Quote from source:
The title had previously sold hundreds
of thousands of copies and the
relaunch on May 27, 2021 has
resulted in an additional 160,000
copies being sold of which
approximately 75,000 DLC
(downloadable content) units generating a
total revenue of SEK 22.7 million. 81% of the
game units were sold through Steam.

Also about MW4 - the sources have all been archived out of existence sine it was 2003. But it used to be available here, which states 100K downloads/hits broke the MekTek site. Not bad for a 'dead game'.
https://en.wikipedia..._4:_Mercenaries
Also, MW4: Vengeance sales numbers are available - 320K Between 2000-2006, 900K of all MW titles:
https://en.wikipedia...or_4:_Vengeance

As for MechAssault:
https://en.wikipedia...iki/MechAssault

Edit: And we all know Microsoft would not be happy with a title unless it sold well over a million copies. Whereas a smaller developer would be happy with smaller numbers, like they were with the 160K relaunch in their report.

Edited by KodiakGW, 01 February 2022 - 03:43 PM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

PyreLlght, on 01 February 2022 - 02:12 PM, said:

What is this thing with "the entire Chinese development team was fired, which was just about to introduce a new product on the market to replace an older produc"? Could you explain a bit more what this is?

And what is this "this shareholder is a pirate, he takes over other studios, plunders talented people for his own crew what he needs and if the rest is not profitable enough, everything is sunk"? Are you talking about EG7's new CEO Ji Ham? What's the story behind him?



MW4 Mercs had such good sales numbers that Microsoft killed the series and never touched it again (more seriously, where do you even have MW4 Mercs sales numbers from?)

Also, MW5 has sold a lot more than 70k on Steam.

if EG 7 tells their funders that MW5 is a dead horse, they will never give money to revive that horse

The company I work for was bought by a shareholder 20 years ago, first they closed a company in England and incorporated the product with us. They don't care what we produce at all...it's something technical that can be used to attract investors to invest, that's enough for you.

In the meantime, our company had 8 different production managers who mainly wanted to present themselves well in order to advance in the hierarchy, every 3 years a new CEO who has new strategic plans. 5 years ago we were supposed to introduce a new product in Europe for this if a chinese development team was deployed before the product was finished, the team was terminated in order to improve the portfolio for new shareholders at short notice, without know-how our developers were supposed to just finish it because they couldn't do it successfully by the deadline, the closure was in place Our company's plan - you can do it or you go - which has led to 10% of the most important people having resigned and the gaps in staff being filled with unqualified leasing workers, which reduces quality and productivity even more, and annoys customers so that now again the closure is in the air, even if we generate more millions in profit every year, but r 3 million profit is not enough when the corporation plans 5 million profit.
You can see how EG7 works on CoD.

Eg7 is the shareholder of CoD, and Raven Software, the development team for COD Vanguard was dismissed as soon as the game was finished for the CEO's, when the product is sold, small support teams can take care of problems.


The majority of the teams either have to turn to new projects or if that is not possible they are eliminated as a cost factor and new people are found or another studio has to take over their work in addition.
It's all about short-term figures, portfolios and the funds of the investors, to whom you constantly have to promise new, brilliant future prospects without great expense.
A philosophy of reaping without sowing and when a field is reaped you look for a new one.
MW or any game histories are not interested - well sold is not good enough.
PGI is a bought cash cow that has talented employees and if the studio doesn't generate enough revenue in the future, it will be cannibalized no matter how much revenue it generates. Whether it's EA, Disney or EG7...they're all only interested in making a quick buck, not any brand or franchise...the Galactica name wasn't generating enough money anymore, ditch it and Big Point should focus on what EG is 7 promises more money than Dark Orbit, and PGI is no different.

MW4 was only good in the Leagues and lives long with it, all other was only stupid Casual assault Heat/Ammo Kidding play, and Mechassault was Console casual Crap of the Level from Amored Core.

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 01 February 2022 - 09:06 PM.

[w0qj]

For the record, if/when (and I hope!!) PGI makes MW6 with Clan mechs, I would buy the full MW6 + all DLC's from GOG.com for its DRM-free program installation (even after server shuts down, etc. etc.)

www.enadglobal7.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/EG7-Q3-2021-Interim-Report.pdf

If EG7 bought Piranha in hopes of additional revenue streams from MW5 on consoles (Xbox, PlayStation), then perhaps it might have been a disappointment. PC/Windows computer games are not console games, and vice versa.

Anyone playing MWO on a PC/Windows computer would have figured out that porting MW5 to console is dumbing it down to an arcade shooter game, something that Micr*$oft had already tried (and failed) years ago in the 2000's. There are already simplified (dumbing down) clones of MechWarrior out there; dumbing down MW5/MW6 is not the way to go!

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Quote

PIRANHA Piranha celebrated the return of MechWarrior 5 on PlayStation for the first time in over 20 years. Net revenue and adjusted EBITDA for the quarter came in at SEK 47.6 million and SEK -8.4 million, respectively. Although the community reception was very positive, the overall sales on PlayStation had low impact, resulting in an operating loss for the quarter. Piranha has largely finished its development on MechWarrior 5 with limited residual effort for future maintenance. In Q4 2021, as the team further ramps down on MechWarrior 5, the plan is to fully utilize Piranha’s talented team to staff various key projects for the group such as the Lord of the Rings Online update.

plain text: # PGI was interesting to us because they are successfully reviving a dead genre after 20 years, which showed us that they have a talented and capable team, which we will now use to our advantage...EG7 has nothing interest for the MW/BT Universe (the PGI still has a license to make more MW games is rather insignificant bycatch)

plain text: # PGI was interesting to us because they are successfully reviving a dead genre after 20 years, which showed us that they have a talented and capable team, which we will now use to our advantage

Quote

Top tier global third party brands: o DC Comics from Warner Brothers with continuing pipeline of content from blockbuster feature films and TV shows. o The Lord of the Rings, arguably the most iconic classic fantasy IP, primed for resurgence with the new Amazon series on its way. o The Dungeons & Dragons from Wizards of the Coast, with a world-wide passionate fan base and a new feature film on its way. o 4game’s third party brands, including Lineage, Black Desert Online, Blade and Soul and more.

thats the CashCows

without a Blockbuster Movie or Amazon Series ,the BT Universe ist uninteresting

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 02 February 2022 - 01:08 AM.

[DaZur]

MW Waldorf Statler, on 02 February 2022 - 12:58 AM, said:

Without a Blockbuster Movie or Amazon Series ,the BT Universe is uninteresting.

Which IMHO is quite sad...

The BT universe and all it's underpinnings IMHO is more attractive than so many other Sci-Fi space operas (Star Wars, BSG, Dune etc.)

[Thorqemada]

Quite some sophisticated thoughts and data here to read - really good!

To me also the Universe is definitively most attractive and i dont understand why it does limit itself so much to its niche without exploring ways to expand - the ingredients for more are all in it!

So, for now let the candle of hope burn that EG7 comes to its mind and does not miss out on the chance to release MW:Clans!

[MW Waldorf Statler]

The main problem with the BT universe is the rights and licenses distributed everywhere, miniatures are different than the film rights or the software rights and the only hope would be an EG7 CEO who is a BT fan or investors who absolutely want to see a MW5 clan or MW6, otherwise EG7 takes as little risk as with the more successful brand "Battlestar Galactica" which they also buried for themselves and Big Point

[Gagis]

Meh, Clans were a mistake.

A game set in the Star League era on the other hand, now that would be interesting.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

yes , thats Novels bring in the Clans breaks the Balance of the Game:( star League or the timeline around the GDL triology
and the influence of EG7 or EA its the same ,by EA we seeing now by DICE and BF 2042..make the investors on a fast Way lucky with a low Cost Plan, not the community and when it fails ...give the Community a clever PR and say all will better in Future.

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 04 February 2022 - 03:19 AM.

[Thorqemada]

Yeah, the way Clans were introduced and balanced was awkward.

[TELEFORCE]

I think a Star League Civil War campaign would be neat. As for the Clans, I think that a Homeworlds campaign would be pretty cool, either before Operation Revival or during the Wars of Reaving.

Edited by TELEFORCE, 27 March 2022 - 06:47 PM.

[Horseman]

Honestly I'd expect MW6 to be Clans only much like MW2 was before MW2Mercs. Then MW7 following the course of the Clan Invasion.

Edited by Horseman, 28 March 2022 - 03:34 AM.

[Andrewlik]

MW Waldorf Statler, on 01 February 2022 - 01:50 AM, said:

its over...MW5 not bring enough Profit in the Mind of the EG 7 CEO`S.
this shareholder is a pirate, he takes over other studios, plunders talented people for his own crew what he needs and if the rest is not profitable enough, everything is sunk, so now mW5 was sunk and all the talented people working on it will work in the future on EG7 projects like Lord of the Rings.
These people (CEO`s) aren't interested in any brands or game universes, it's all about profit and even more profit and when LotR not brings enought profit,the working guys enslaved for the next project thats brings money

Good news, they just had an announcement about the announcement of DLC 3, featuring the Hatchetman! https://twitter.com/...8c1DSmKZbw&s=19