51 replies to this topic

[D o z e r]

Lights are OP, at least those with insane hard point/mobility combinations. I say this as a former assault pilot who realized i have more dps and tanking ability in many lights than I do in my Annie 1A. That seems a little bit silly.

What can be done is a complicated issue. Lights are in part OP because skilled players like DATA and GeeRam take advantage of that unique combination of short range DPS and agility. I see my light brothers and sisters just yolo it into enemy lines not understanding the careful situational awareness that brings out the circumstances for that devastating DPS and agility.

Not sure that there are any clear answers how to balance this... One would warn against nerfing any particular weapon system: You can nerf machine guns, but the firestarter A and Piranha laser variant will carry the torch. Nerf lasers and then a whole range of other ramifications emerge.

At its heart, the issue is that some lights have too much DPS and too much tankiness. This is a matter of hard points, armor points, and glitchy hit boxes. That should be the focus to resolve. I invite the community to suggest options... the sooner I can get back into my Annihilator the happier I will be! So, more hard points and/or armour on assaults? Any other ideas?

Dozer

Edited by D O Z E R, 23 February 2022 - 08:31 PM.

[Meep Meep]

There is a long standing thread debating everything you posted here you know?

https://mwomercs.com...are-screwed-up/

[Andrewlik]

D O Z E R, on 23 February 2022 - 03:33 PM, said:

Lights are OP, at least those with insane hard point/mobility combinations. I say this as a former assault pilot who realized i have more dps and tanking ability in many lights than I do in my Annie 1A. That seems a little bit silly.

What can be done is a complicated issue. Lights are in part OP because skilled players like DATA and GeeRam are can take advantage of that unique combination of short range DPS and agility. Yet half of the games I play I see my light brothers and sisters just yolo it into enemy lines not understanding the careful situational awareness that brings out the circumstances for that devastating GPS and agility.

Not sure that there are any clear answers how to balance this. In practice, half of the matches I play end up with lights yoloing it into enemy lines to minimal effect. Streaksboats remain a viable, if underutilized counter. And i would warn against nerfing any particular weapon system: You can nerf machine guns, but the firestarter A and Piranha laser variant will carry the torch. Nerf lasers and then a whole range of other ramifications emerge.

At its heart, the issie is that some lights have too much DPS and too much tankiness. This is a matter of hard points, armor points, and glitchy hit boxes. That should be the focus to resolve. I invite the community to support or suggest other options... the sooner I can get back into my Annihilator the happier I will be!

Dozer

You hit the nail on the head, but failed to see that's not a problem.
Lights are the lowest skill floor, highest skill cap class. A light in the hands of a skilled player is terrifying to those who don't know how to deal with it.
Most of the issues are resolved by better play - stick with your team, aim and lead your shots better
Also, light mechs do NOT have higher DPS than assaults. My urbies 5 mpulse does not compare to a timberwolfs laser vomit, especially at range.
It's just because lights require shorter range, they're more opportunistic, meaning the times they bring their DPS to bear it's generally more effective, especially anything in the rear arc.
I agree that a light mech circling you is dissorienting and annoying, but I assure you it's just as much so or even more so for the pilot.
I will say that a lance of fast urbies on comms isolating and chewing up lone assaults can feel quite strong sometimes, but that's more "Teamwork OP" than "Lights OP"
EDIT: forums posted this before I finished my sentence.

Edited by Andrewlik, 23 February 2022 - 04:02 PM.

[Blood Rose]

D O Z E R, on 23 February 2022 - 03:33 PM, said:

What can be done is a complicated issue. Lights are in part OP because skilled players like DATA and GeeRam are can take advantage of that unique combination of short range DPS and agility.

So, because 0.3<% of the playerbase can do really well in Light mechs, Lights are OP?
Cool, so what about the 20+% who do really well in Assaults, does that mean Assaults are OP and need a nerf? And Heavies too, must be another 20% of the players who main Heavies do really well. Better line that nerf bat up, its going in for a very long swing here.

[KaptinOrk]

How many active "LiGhT mEcH OP" threads are there at any given time?

I swear assault 'mech pilots are the most fragile players in the game, get ganked by one light 'mech and it's off to the forums to cry. Fast light 'mechs have what, 30-40 total HP on a leg? Aim for their hip actuator and watch the component evaporate. Once they're legged, they're dead. If you have trouble doing this alone, stick with your team and call the light out, 2-3 allied 'mechs concentrating their fire will pop a light 'mech in no time.

Edited by KaptinOrk, 23 February 2022 - 04:31 PM.

[ThreeStooges]

KaptinOrk, on 23 February 2022 - 04:29 PM, said:

How many active "LiGhT mEcH OP" threads are there at any given time?

I swear assault 'mech pilots are the most fragile players in the game, get ganked by one light 'mech and it's off to the forums to cry. Fast light 'mechs have what, 30-40 total HP on a leg? Aim for their hip actuator and watch the component evaporate. Once they're legged, they're dead. If you have trouble doing this alone, stick with your team and call the light out, 2-3 allied 'mechs concentrating their fire will pop a light 'mech in no time.

32 at most on 35ts baring the special quirked and skill tree on pnts and urbies. A single ac20 will pretty much kill any is 35t running xls. Lct-pb and flea 20(the most op) have roughly 14 side torso armor, jenners have 14. Com-2d god mode has 16. The comp meta fire starter (free biee) has a mere 24. Nearly double of the others which makes it the best light in the game.

[LordNothing]

i have an idea to solve the problem. you must play 100 games in each weight to unlock the next weight class. in order lights->mediums->heavies->assaults. this way asssault pilots have the skills they need to not be squirrel food.

an alternate order might be mediums->heavies->lights->assaults. as lights are also not an easy class to play well.

[D o z e r]

If your proposition is that i think light's are OP because i am a bad Assault Pilot, I demand a Batchall. Give me 48 hours from this post, and a time EST (NYC/Toronto), and meet me in Solaris Division 1 then. Let battle be the judge. Unless you are a coward :-)

KaptinOrk, on 23 February 2022 - 04:29 PM, said:

How many active &quot;LiGhT mEcH OP&quot; threads are there at any given time?

I swear assault 'mech pilots are the most fragile players in the game, get ganked by one light 'mech and it's off to the forums to cry. Fast light 'mechs have what, 30-40 total HP on a leg? Aim for their hip actuator and watch the component evaporate. Once they're legged, they're dead. If you have trouble doing this alone, stick with your team and call the light out, 2-3 allied 'mechs concentrating their fire will pop a light 'mech in no time.

[ScrapIron Prime]

D O Z E R, on 23 February 2022 - 07:20 PM, said:

If your proposition is that i think light's are OP because i am a bad Assault Pilot, I demand a Batchall. Give me 48 hours from this post, and a time EST (NYC/Toronto), and meet me in Solaris Division 1 then. Let battle be the judge. Unless you are a coward :-)

Wait… you started a forum thread, someone disagreed with you, and your counter argument is “come at me bro?”

This thread is off to a great start.

[Andrewlik]

ScrapIron Prime, on 23 February 2022 - 08:24 PM, said:

Wait… you started a forum thread, someone disagreed with you, and your counter argument is “come at me bro?”

This thread is off to a great start.

To be fair, I'd much rather see these two settle their differences with a trial by combat than this thread to be filled with whining back and forth for 27 pages

[D o z e r]

Actually, I made this post to invite contrary thoughts and discussion. The more ideas the better! There have already been some worthy suggestions.... If it is a matter of my skill I offer to prove otherwise.

Thanks for trolling!

ScrapIron Prime, on 23 February 2022 - 08:24 PM, said:

Wait… you started a forum thread, someone disagreed with you, and your counter argument is “come at me bro?”

This thread is off to a great start.

Edited by D O Z E R, 23 February 2022 - 08:45 PM.

[Gagis]

D O Z E R, on 23 February 2022 - 03:33 PM, said:

I see my light brothers and sisters just yolo it into enemy lines not understanding the careful situational awareness that brings out the circumstances for that devastating DPS and agility.

Against more skilled opponents, those lights get instakilled if they try to yolo. Its a thing people learn at low tiers and need to unlearn fast when they start facing opponents who shoot back.

I swear, the average skill level of MWO players would be quadrupled if people turned their mouse sensitivities way down and tried to aim a bit.

Edited by Gagis, 23 February 2022 - 10:57 PM.

[Curccu]

ThreeStooges, on 23 February 2022 - 06:46 PM, said:

32 at most on 35ts baring the special quirked and skill tree on pnts and urbies. A single ac20 will pretty much kill any is 35t running xls. Lct-pb and flea 20(the most op) have roughly 14 side torso armor, jenners have 14. Com-2d god mode has 16. The comp meta fire starter (free biee) has a mere 24. Nearly double of the others which makes it the best light in the game.

Single AC20 doesn't kill ANY 35 tonner even from behind, not even if you strip ALL the armor as long as you got 7 out of 10 structure skilltree points, which every light mech should have.

D O Z E R, on 23 February 2022 - 07:20 PM, said:

If your proposition is that i think light's are OP because i am a bad Assault Pilot, I demand a Batchall. Give me 48 hours from this post, and a time EST (NYC/Toronto), and meet me in Solaris Division 1 then. Let battle be the judge. Unless you are a coward :-)

If you wanna debate Solaris balance --> https://mwomercs.com...um/537-solaris/

D O Z E R, on 23 February 2022 - 03:33 PM, said:

Lights are OP, at least those with insane hard point/mobility combinations. I say this as a former assault pilot who realized i have more dps and tanking ability in many lights than I do in my Annie 1A. That seems a little bit silly.

Yet you do worse in lights than assaults..

Lights https://mwomercs.com...&user=D+O+Z+E+R
Assaults https://mwomercs.com...&user=D+O+Z+E+R

[Knownswift]

I would encourage OP to compare this seasons performance with previous seasons.

Your all light performance is significantly worse than your mostly assault seasons.

[Bamboozle Gold]

D O Z E R, on 23 February 2022 - 03:33 PM, said:

At its heart, the issue is that some lights have too much DPS and too much tankiness. This is a matter of hard points, armor points, and glitchy hit boxes. That should be the focus to resolve. I invite the community to suggest options... the sooner I can get back into my Annihilator the happier I will be! So, more hard points and/or armour on assaults? Any other ideas?

I had a look at statistics for the top 100 players, who had at least 20 games played, last season and assaults were performing better overall.





Geeram yesterday showed a sheet of 50 matches he played in a dakka assault. The results were:


MAD AL https://mwo.nav-alph...7221bcf6_MAD-AL

NO STRIKES USED
W/L% 76.00%
Average Kills 1.72
Average DMG 929.20
#OfMatches: 50 Total Wins: 38


I would love to see a similar 50 matches from DATA in lights so we could compare.

Lights should be equally effective on the battlefield as assaults, as the game is balanced around QP. I do think lights have some issues but the issue is with the hit detection of the fastest lights. I would suggest the fastest lights to get slowed down by a bit and given armour buffs to compensate. This would remove some of the frustration that some players have when fighting lights.

Edited by Bamboozle Gold, 24 February 2022 - 02:03 AM.

[Dogstar]

Bamboozle Gold, on 24 February 2022 - 01:51 AM, said:

Lights should be equally effective on the battlefield as assaults,

You're right but the trouble is that everyone has different meanings for 'effective'.

e.g Dozy assault pilots think that lights who backstab them are 'too effective' (i.e. OP) whereas smart light pilots know that assault alphas are very effective indeed and need to be avoided at all costs

[Captain Caveman DE]

here's two easy cents:

if those lights are that broken - run them for a month.
Jarls is a place with open numbers, and numbers don't lie.

everybody can see just how much better you'll do in a light than the months before in non-lights,
and we all will be humbled and have to apologize and so on.

... right?
..
.

Edited by Captain Caveman DE, 24 February 2022 - 04:00 AM.

[D o z e r]

Challenge accepted :-) , will report back in a month or so.

Captain Caveman DE, on 24 February 2022 - 03:58 AM, said:

here's two easy cents:

if those lights are that broken - run them for a month.
Jarls is a place with open numbers, and numbers don't lie.

everybody can see just how much better you'll do in a light than the months before in non-lights,
and we all will be humbled and have to apologize and so on.

... right?
..
.

[ScrapIron Prime]

D O Z E R, on 24 February 2022 - 07:05 AM, said:

Challenge accepted :-) , will report back in a month or so.

Okay, now THAT is a good test of your skills. Rather than seeing if you are better than player X, see what running lights does to your stats for the month. Excellent on you for stepping up.

[D A T A]

bad try, these forums are flooded by light mech fanboys, the true mwo fanbase actually rage quit the game because of lights op....but apparently they are still active on youtube